What's your opinion of Brendan Rodgers?

[TheFridge]

We do concede a lot more goals these days and our defending is shite. We're miles better when it comes to scoring goals though. It kind of evens itself out doesn't it?

 

 

It evened itself out in spectacular style last season and we still won nothing, 100 odd goals wasn't enough.

You don't need to score loads of goals to win lots of matches, or trophies, they're just a bonus really if you have a solid back line, with us though we need every goal we can get because we are so easy to score against, it's a struggle to see how being so poor in defence is ever going to be anything but a massive problem for us, we can write off ever doing anything in Europe for a start, forget that.

 

Is it really too much to ask for us not to defend likes clowns? 2 or more goals conceded every 5 games under a manager who has no track record of success, nothing to back his work up apart from what looks like one lucky season (or even half season) where things fell into place and even then it didn't win a trophy.

 

I think Rodgers needs to show tangible signs of improvement right through to the end of the season. He might survive, but it will be difficult.  

 

Absolutely, he needs a big improvement for the last half of the season if he is to have any chance to keep his job, he has to get that CL place really, he's very lucky that we somehow still have a decent chance of that.

 

I remember thinking Kenny will and has to go because he simply wouldn't/couldn't be trusted with more money, hard to see that being any different with Rodgers unless there is vast improvement in results, some better performances of some of his signings wouldn't go amiss either.

 

I'd be amazed if we ended up spluttering to 6th/7th and they let him keep the job, winning the FA/League Cup we know doesn't count for anything with the yanks, Europa League would make a big difference but after what we saw in the CL and even when playing well like the other night it's hard to see happening, there will be a bad game and goals conceded in there somewhere that will blow it for us, hope im wrong on that one, would love to see that Europa League won and another European trophy in the cabinet.

[Guest davelfc]

But we nearly won the league a few months ago. Who gets the credit for that then?

 

We failed to win the league last season, when at one stage it was in our own hands. Who gets the blame for that?

 

Nearly in football is nothing, we nearly won the CL in 2007. 

 

The jury is still out on your question. 

[Brownie]

It evened itself out in spectacular style last season and we still won nothing, 100 odd goals wasn't enough.

You don't need to score loads of goals to win lots of matches, or trophies, they're just a bonus really if you have a solid back line, with us though we need every goal we can get because we are so easy to score against, it's a struggle to see how being so poor in defence is ever going to be anything but a massive problem for us, we can write off ever doing anything in Europe for a start, forget that.

 

Is it really too much to ask for us not to defend likes clowns? 2 or more goals conceded every 5 games under a manager who has no track record of success, nothing to back his work up apart from what looks like one lucky season (or even half season) where things fell into place and even then it didn't win a trophy.

 

 

Absolutely, he needs a big improvement for the last half of the season if he is to have any chance to keep his job, he has to get that CL place really, he's very lucky that we somehow still have a decent chance of that.

 

I remember thinking Kenny will and has to go because he simply wouldn't/couldn't be trusted with more money, hard to see that being any different with Rodgers unless there is vast improvement in results, some better performances of some of his signings wouldn't go amiss either.

 

I'd be amazed if we ended up spluttering to 6th/7th and they let him keep the job, winning the FA/League Cup we know doesn't count for anything with the yanks, Europa League would make a big difference but after what we saw in the CL and even when playing well like the other night it's hard to see happening, there will be a bad game and goals conceded in there somewhere that will blow it for us, hope im wrong on that one, would love to see that Europa League won and another European trophy in the cabinet.

Mate, our defending is horrific and you won't find me trying to argue otherwise. What i'm trying to do is to add some balance to statements that are just completely black and white.

 

Football is about winning games and gathering points. There are loads of ways to achieve that, including being solid defensively but not scoring tons of goals and then flipping that on its head.

 

I'm a bit of an analytical person so thought i'd go and look at the numbers.

 

Rodgers has had 95 Premier League games so far so I compared his record with Benitez first 95 games.

 

I won't post the exact figures but it's clear that we now score more but concede more. The important figure is the variance between the two which was +0.8 under Benitez and is +0.7 under Rodgers. On average under Benitez we were likely to win a game 1-0 and under Rodgers it's 2-1. In terms of points, the difference is 1 point.

 

So very similar overall records achieved in very different ways.

 

One thing I completely agree with you on is that we'll never achieve anything in Europe under Rodgers unless he changes his approach to those games. I like to think that he'll learn that but time will tell.

 

On the flip side, I think success in the Premier League is primarily about scoring lots of goals so I think we're already well set on that score.

 

Let's get Rafa back in for the European games and let Rodgers do the league!

[Brownie]

We failed to win the league last season, when at one stage it was in our own hands. Who gets the blame for that?

 

Nearly in football is nothing, we nearly won the CL in 2007.

 

The jury is still out on your question.

That means little in the context of the discussion mate.

 

The point made was that since Benitez left our transfer business has been progressively worse so you would expect that our performance would follow the same trend. It didn't last season so that either proves one of two things for me:

 

1) Our transfer business hasn't been progressively worse.

 

2) Rodgers was brilliant last year.

[BCM]

 

On the flip side, I think success in the Premier League is primarily about scoring lots of goals so I think we're already well set on that score.

 

Let's get Rafa back in for the European games and let Rodgers do the league!

 

Some good points in that post.

 

Just one thing though. Id be very surprised if a team has ever won a league whilst conceding 50 odd goals, Unless Defence marries up with Attack i dont think you have the balance needed to take a Championship.

[Brownie]

Some good points in that post.

 

Just one thing though. Id be very surprised if a team has ever won a league whilst conceding 50 odd goals, Unless Defence marries up with Attack i dont think you have the balance needed to take a Championship.

Probably not mate, i'd have to take a look. Tell you what though, i'd take having a year like last year every time wouldn't you?

 

We have all been focusing on trying to sort the defence out this year, even Rodgers has been doing that (hence some of the turgid stuff) but it feels as though the emphasis has switched back to trying to find the goals again.

 

We were a mad team last year and i'd love that to be our identity every year, apart from when it comes to Europe.

[Brownie]

Some good points in that post.

 

Just one thing though. Id be very surprised if a team has ever won a league whilst conceding 50 odd goals, Unless Defence marries up with Attack i dont think you have the balance needed to take a Championship.

Just had a look at the 38 game era there mate and the Mancs have won it conceding 45 goals one season and 43 twice.

 

The average is 32.

[BCM]

Probably not mate, i'd have to take a look. Tell you what though, i'd take having a year like last year every time wouldn't you?

 

We have all been focusing on trying to sort the defence out this year, even Rodgers has been doing that (hence some of the turgid stuff) but it feels as though the emphasis has switched back to trying to find the goals again.

 

We were a mad team last year and i'd love that to be our identity every year, apart from when it comes to Europe.

 

I would take it every time over anything we've seen since 2010.

 

I do wonder how long you can keep high intensity pressing sides before the players get too tired of it, especially if you dont get silverware from it.

Its something you can probably only do with a young team, which could mean a high turnover of players as well.

 

Be interesting to see how the rest of the season pans out anyway.

[Brownie]

I would take it every time over anything we've seen since 2010.

 

I do wonder how long you can keep high intensity pressing sides before the players get too tired of it, especially if you dont get silverware from it.

Its something you can probably only do with a young team, which could mean a high turnover of players as well.

 

Be interesting to see how the rest of the season pans out anyway.

Yeah definitely. Hopefully the confidence is returning and we'll see a continuation of the last few weeks.

[RobbieOR]

We failed to win the league last season, when at one stage it was in our own hands. Who gets the blame for that?

 

Nearly in football is nothing, we nearly won the CL in 2007. 

 

The jury is still out on your question. 

 

We havent won the league in 24 years. 'Nearly' is something when you havent done it in that long.

[stringvest]

that's where we disagree Robbie.  last season was great fun while it was happening, but ultimately a disappointment because we came away with nothing.  2nd in the league, or beaten in finals is a bit shit, and certainly not worth celebrating.  I'm a 'winning is the only thing that matters' kind of chap. 

[chrisbonnie]

that's where we disagree Robbie. last season was great fun while it was happening, but ultimately a disappointment because we came away with nothing. 2nd in the league, or beaten in finals is a bit shit, and certainly not worth celebrating. I'm a 'winning is the only thing that matters' kind of chap.

I'd rather "nearly" win the league than win the coca cola cup. Or whatever they call it the days.

 

Actually, who even won that last season?

[RobbieOR]

Dont get me wrong, Stringy, Im not saying it's worth celebrating. But when a manager takes over a team that had finished midtable three years running and took us as close as we've been in a quarter of a century to winning the thing, it's not something be trifled at. 

[Captain]

There used to be a time when qualifying for the CL was important.

 

Now I'm not so sure anymore, having witnessed this years 'adventure'.

[Spy Bee]

I always try not to trifle with anything. Trifling is dangerous.

[billypilgrimnz]

Tactical Set-Up and Team Selection: jury's out

Attacking Set-Up: jury's out (would be positive, except for the fact this season he persisted so long with Balotelli or Lambert up front on their own)

Midfield Set-Up: jury's out

Defensive Set-Up: poor

In-Game tactics (incl. subs): jury's out

Man Management: jury's out

Transfers: evidence says "poor"

Tangible Success: n/a

General Attitude Towards the Game: encouraging

Relationship with Press: great

[stringvest]

I always try not to trifle with anything. Trifling is dangerous.

 

yep.  I've desserted that line of thinking.

[Dr. J]

Dont get me wrong, Stringy, Im not saying it's worth celebrating. But when a manager takes over a team that had finished midtable three years running and took us as close as we've been in a quarter of a century to winning the thing, it's not something be trifled at. 

 

Yeah, but there were so many  variables involved there, the most important being the phenomenal year that Suarez had. Lots of overdetermination going on - when Suarez left he took with him the competitive fire that drove everybody else on, not counting the goals, assists, free kicks won, etc.

 

Rodgers is still here. 

[Brownie]

There used to be a time when qualifying for the CL was important.

 

Now I'm not so sure anymore, having witnessed this years 'adventure'.

It's still important with regards to finances, attracting players etc but we need to change our style otherwise we won't get far in it (if we even qualify).

 

Same goes for the EL actually. We need to be more solid otherwise we'll come unstuck fairly quickly.

[Spy Bee]

Tactical Set-Up and Team Selection: jury's out

Attacking Set-Up: jury's out (would be positive, except for the fact this season he persisted so long with Balotelli or Lambert up front on their own)

Midfield Set-Up: jury's out

Defensive Set-Up: poor

In-Game tactics (incl. subs): jury's out

Man Management: jury's out

Transfers: evidence says "poor"

Tangible Success: n/a

General Attitude Towards the Game: encouraging

Relationship with Press: great

The only positive you can see from Rodgers is his relationship with the press? Okay.

[billypilgrimnz]

The only positive you can see from Rodgers is his relationship with the press? Okay.

 

Patience. Jury deliberations can go on for a while. Go grab a cup of coffee.

[stringvest]

Dont get me wrong, Stringy, Im not saying it's worth celebrating. But when a manager takes over a team that had finished midtable three years running and took us as close as we've been in a quarter of a century to winning the thing, it's not something be trifled at. 

 

I acknowledge that there was massive improvement last season, but I also believe Rodgers have a number of things fall nicely into his lap last season.  He obviously is right to take some credit for it, but certainly not all - and let's not forget, we won nothing.  

 

One (minor) trophy since 2006 is not great.  

[Denny Crane]

Yeah, but there were so many  variables involved there, the most important being the phenomenal year that Suarez had. Lots of overdetermination going on - when Suarez left he took with him the competitive fire that drove everybody else on, not counting the goals, assists, free kicks won, etc.

 

Rodgers is still here. 

 

Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester City all played around 15 games more than us last season. Due to Europe and longer runs in domestic cups also.

[Brownie]

Yeah, but there were so many variables involved there, the most important being the phenomenal year that Suarez had. Lots of overdetermination going on - when Suarez left he took with him the competitive fire that drove everybody else on, not counting the goals, assists, free kicks won, etc.

 

Rodgers is still here.

Suarez was brilliant the year before though and we finished 7th.

[Captain]

I think the reason I class Houllier and Rafa's signings better is their first big 'sprees' were successful. They each had one summer to get it right with the club on the verge of a precipice and they both got it right. Houllier took a shit defence and gave us an entirely new spine. Hyppia, Henchoz, Westerveld and Hamann, two of them I'd class as greats.

 

Rafa brought in Reina and Alonso along with Garcia who was quality. Just as Houllier had fixed our longstanding defence problem, Rafa fixed our longstanding goalkeeping one, he later added Mascherano and Torres, both Liverpool greats.

 

Rodgers has actually done the opposite, in his first full summer spree, where he's had the chance to truly put his stamp on the squad, he's somehow actually made it worse. Just as, love him as I do, Dalglish did when his hour came.

 

Spot on.

 

This summer we as expected lost our best (ever?) player who imo was essential to us finishing as high as we did last season. It was absolutely critical that he was replaced with as good a player as possible. What happens? A complete clusterfuck.

 

We have been consistently shit defensively under Rodgers. This summer he signs his new leader in the back four. An utter disaster. And to make matters worse, he insists on playing him despite being shit.

 

There's still time to turn this around, but I have no faith that Rodgers can.