Some knob 'ed writing about us for The Mail...

[AngryOfTuebrook]

The two situations aren't comparable though, are they.

 

West Ham clearly had no issue with fans taking souvenirs, whereas Liverpool specifically told fans that taking seats was not permitted and could result in arrest.

 

That's not bias - it's accurate reporting of the facts.

It's a bit of a stretch to say that two groups of football fans taking bits of a soon-to-be-demolished stand are not comparable.

 

Did West Ham specifically say "Help yourselves; go nuts; you'll be doing us a favour"?

Did Liverpool specifically say "We've not finished with those seats, so don't go stealing them"?

 

If not, it's got definite echoes of the post-Katrina reporting: bad people steal; good people take the initiative to provide for themselves.

[deiseach]

I'll leave the total cockery to those who can't tell the difference between theft and non-theft.

We've established that you think that if you are not told not to take something, then you can take it. Actually I'd imagine you don't think that but would rather follow such a foolish line of thought to the bitter end rather than admit you were being too smart for your own good.

[Bjornebye]

We all know SD doesn't work with facts.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I'll leave the total cockery to those who can't tell the difference between theft and non-theft.

Please expand on the differences.

[Tony Moanero]

Yer mas.

[Arl arse]

Yer mas.

I took yer mas knickers as a souvenir, or did I steal them?

[Strontium]

We've established that you think that if you are not told not to take something, then you can take it. Actually I'd imagine you don't think that but would rather follow such a foolish line of thought to the bitter end rather than admit you were being too smart for your own good.

 

What we've established is that if you attempt to take something, and the owners of that thing do not object to you taking that thing, then that isn't theft.

 

Liverpool fans were specifically told not to take bits of the stadium or they risked prosecution for theft. West Ham fans were not told anything of the sort, nor did any stewards attempt to stop them. Therefore the situations are not identical, and it certainly doesn't require anyone to be particularly smart to understand that. But you're welcome to keep tying yourself in knots to try and demonstrate otherwise.

 

Similarly, on the last day of the Kop, when all and sundry were chiselling bits of the terracing off and removing fixtures and fittings, that wasn't theft either, because there were no public messages imploring fans to stop, nobody attempting to stop them and nobody trying to confiscate the mementoes.

 

Today's homework should probably be for everyone to learn the meaning of the word "tacit".

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Did anybody keep taking things after the tannoy announcement? Is there not a valid argument that before the tannoy announcement there was tacit approval?

[deiseach]

What we've established is that if you attempt to take something, and the owners of that thing do not object to you taking that thing, then that isn't theft.

 

No. No no no. This amounts to a defence of looting during a riot. I know what happened at the Boleyn Ground Upton Park / Anfield didn't constitute a riot, but if people start taking things and no one in authority objects, whether due to an oversight or fear, it's still theft. The situations are 'comparable'.

 

We all know SD doesn't work with facts.

 

Indeed. That was my first mistake. Lesson learned.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

What a weird interpretation of theft that is. A lack of objection doesn't always imply that there is an approval of taking something.

[jimmycase]

By the way, people calling west ham's old ground Upton Park and not its proper name The Boleyn ground, is akin to people calling Anfield, Anfield Road.

[deiseach]

By the way, people calling west ham's old ground Upton Park and not its proper name The Boleyn ground, is akin to people calling Anfield, Anfield Road.

 

Calling West Ham's old ground the Boleyn Ground is akin to people calling Arsenal's old ground the Arsenal Stadium.

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

People calling me anything other that 'Lord of the Dance' is akin to calling Jimmy Saville an upstanding members of the community.

[Tony Moanero]

Calling West Ham's old ground the Boleyn Ground is akin to people calling Arsenal's old ground the Arsenal Stadium.

I lived and worked in London for a number of years. I met plenty of West Ham fans, plenty of whom referred to their ground as The Boleyn. It's fans of other clubs, such as ourselves, who universally call it Upton Park. On the other hand, I never met an Arsenal fan who called their ground The Arsenal Stadium.

[deiseach]

I lived and worked in London for a number of years. I met plenty of West Ham fans, plenty of whom referred to their ground as The Boleyn. It's fans of other clubs, such as ourselves, who universally call it Upton Park. On the other hand, I never met an Arsenal fan who called their ground The Arsenal Stadium.

 

How disappointing. They don't call it the awful din or the angels dancing on the 'ead? 

[Jennings]

...

 

Liverpool fans were specifically told not to take bits of the stadium or they risked prosecution for theft. West Ham fans were not told anything of the sort, nor did any stewards attempt to stop them

 

...

 

Liverpool fans were NOT specifically told "not to take bits of the stadium or they risked prosecution for theft" until the souvenir hunting had started, at which point (most) people stopped. 

 

All stewards did not try to stop people even after the announcement.

[Sugar Ape]

The Mail have responded to someone who complained below. Pretty clear the two situations were comparable from their response.

 

 

Hi Callum,

Thank you for getting in touch to share your frustration about the tweet that was sent out yesterday about Liverpool fans removing seats after the Chelsea game.

It was an unfortunate error of judgement from the individual who tweeted the story out to say it was ‘stealing’. We appreciate that is an emotive word. We also appreciate there is no difference between Liverpool and West Ham fans removing seats from a ground/stand that are set to be removed anyway as part of demolition/rebuilding work.

And that by describing West Ham fans as ‘souvenir hunting’ and Liverpool fans as ‘stealing’, this is likely to cause frustration.

This was certainly not our intention and the tweet was deleted as soon as other people in our team spotted it.

And crucially, the actual Liverpool article that the offending tweet linked through to did not make any reference to stealing. This was not a common theme, simply an error by an individual tweeting out a link to the story.

And while we admit our error regarding that tweet, the fact that someone has Photoshopped both tweets together – as appears in your email – it has given the impression to some that the tweets went out one after another (when the Liverpool one was some 21 hours after the West Ham one) and that it was a conscious decision on our part to make a distinction between the actions of the West Ham fans and the Liverpool fans.

This absolutely was not the case.

Regards

Dan

Dan Willis Executive Sports Editor

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Northcliffe House, 2 Derry Street, London, W8 5TT M: 07900 165455 T: 020 3615 0251 Twitter: @danwillis23

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Calling West Ham's old ground the Boleyn Ground is akin to people calling Arsenal's old ground the Arsenal Stadium.

It's gone. Get over it.

[grazywalker]

Thunder cunt behaviour

[Dougie Do'ins]

Liverpool Main Stand seats removed as Anfield transformation begins - new pictures

It's the morning after the night before .... and Anfield’s historic Main Stand is already a very different looking place.

Within hours of the final home Premier League match of the season against Chelsea ending, work had begun to carefully remove seats from the stand.

Liverpool FC released images to show construction workers starting the process which will result in the transformation of the interior of the stadium.

After the Chelsea match some Liverpool fans were spotted trying to take their seats home with them, despite warnings from the club over the tannoy.

The stadium announcer reminded the home fans that claiming a souvenir would constitute a crime.

The announcer said: “Please be aware removal of property is theft. You may be arrested.”

It is not clear if any seats made it out of the ground, but the numerous vacated spaces in evidence once the stand was empty suggested that plenty of supporters had at least made an attempt.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-main-stand-seats-removed-11330733

[jimmycase]

Calling West Ham's old ground the Boleyn Ground is akin to people calling Arsenal's old ground the Arsenal Stadium.

 

No its not.

[Anubis]

So did any Hammers fans make it out of Upton Park with their seats?

[Evelyn Tentions]

Fucking prices they charge for admission, should be able to take the seat home after every game.

[thegreatelephant]

So did any Hammers fans make it out of Upton Park with their seats?

good chance of it

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Westham-seat-chair-/191871863142?hash=item2cac744966:g:Jf0AAOSw7W5XNjg9

[Russ Atmosphere]

good chance of it

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Westham-seat-chair-/191871863142?hash=item2cac744966:g:Jf0AAOSw7W5XNjg9

Nobody could accuse 'ammers fans of being the enemies of aspiration. Their owners will be so proud.