LFC approach Wigan for martinez

[Major Tom]

OK - Point taken, I'm just being a gobshite at this news and reacting badley.

 

But let me ask you this: We probably can't say who the "Best" manager is at the moment but I would guess that Roberto Martinez wouldn't get near the top 50 in that list.

 

Would that - in your eyes - make Martinez the "Right" manager?

 

That could only be judged retrospectively, KS. We could get in whoever you believe to be theworld's best manager, but we could only decide if he was the right appointment further down the line when we have tasted the pudding!

[VladimirIlyich]

Im hoping we are not going down the blueshite way of doing business were they throw in a few names who theyve got earthly chance of signing along with some shite and the name always comes from the shite shortlist.

[Whelan]

OK - Point taken, I'm just being a gobshite at this news and reacting badly.

 

But let me ask you this: We probably can't say who the "Best" manager is at the moment but I would guess that Roberto Martinez wouldn't get near the top 50 in that list.

 

Would that - in your eyes - make Martinez the "Right" manager?

 

Well, you have to take into account availability!

 

Wenger, Ferguson and Redknapp are non starters, as is Maurino and Pep! Allegri and Conte also, Klopp probably, Heynkes also. De Boer is a possibility though!

 

Considering what is available, it is now Martinez, AVB or Rafa. Personally out of those three I prefer AVB, if he is a non starter I think Martinez is probably the only option available that fits in with the philosophy that we want to adopt.

 

His style of football is a lot easier to transfer than Pulis or Lambert! But we won't know yet, he could be a let down, but what if he is our Rafa or Klopp?

 

Unfortunately, I cannot give you any guarantees nor can I give you any tangible evidence to support him, we can only look to judging his performance in time.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

can someone explain this - the nuances of the twitterverse sometimes elude me.

 

Alan Kayll (sometimes referred to by ATK) was given a job at NESN by FSG (or somebody within that circle). He generally gives off the impression that he has the ear of the owners, or at least, gets snippets of information from them. I don't believe that the owners would really care about any fan that much, so I don't believe it, but whatever.

 

There were rumours that Paul Tomkins, the statistical bore of a cunt, is "advising" the owners in sort of way. Perhaps, doing a statistical analysis for potential managers. I don't believe this either because it seems absolutely farfetched and fucking stupid.

 

The fact that Alan Kayll is randomly cursing Tomkins is odd and suggests that maybe he has found out he is giving them "advice" of some sort.

 

SHORT VERSION: its all a load of bollocks.

[TheDrowningMan]

Best CV doesn't necessarily equate best candidate for the job. If it did Valencia and Dortmund would probably be without a few titles between them.

 

AC Milan this season, too. Stunning CV, that guy.

[Kennys_spell]

That could only be judged retrospectively, KS. We could get in whoever you believe to be theworld's best manager, but we could only decide if he was the right appointment further down the line when we have tasted the pudding!

 

And that gets right back to my point - do we want to be a proving ground for managaers with potential ?

[Whelan]

And that gets right back to my point - do we want to be a proving ground for managaers with potential ?

 

It isn't about being a proving ground! That implies they will move on, it is about identifying potential early, and benefitting from that potential rather than waiting until they are tied in with another club, with compensation costing millions and facing competition from other clubs looking for the same thing.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

And that gets right back to my point - do we want to be a proving ground for managaers with potential ?

 

I suppose that depends if we have a choice. Deschamps snubbed us previously, but now he's had a poor season he's being touted.

 

If you buy the Guardiola/Capello stuff then Martinez looks a baffling candidate to sit alongside them. I just don't think we've got much of a shot with that calibre of manager, which puts us back into the Dortmund/Valencia position in the second tier, of trying to identify who'll be the big managers of tomorrow.

[Whelan]

If you look at the progress of the current Dortumund team you get the impression that the structure was in place prior to Klopp's arrival, and they simply felt he was the right man to get the best out of a young team, the same argument is used against Pep i.e. that he has simply been appointed when they have a great collection of players coming through.

 

If you were to look at Martinez you would be impressed, not by his ability to simply keep Wigan up, but by his ability to do so playing good football! And therefore it is a reasonable assumption to make that he can transfer that ability and improve at a club with better players. The facts are that we need a manager who can develop a team rather than build one through buys, our youth set up is going to be as important as the manager in coming years.

[Kennys_spell]

It isn't about being a proving ground! That implies they will move on, it is about identifying potential early, and benefitting from that potential rather than waiting until they are tied in with another club, with compensation costing millions and facing competition from other clubs looking for the same thing.

 

Sorry but to me that's exactly what it's about - if we accept the 'potential' of a manager as the guide to suitability then we are accepting that we may fail and furthermore we'll accept that failure as an outcome.

 

We have to PLAN to succeed - if we don't we are not living up to the legacy of LFC.

[Whelan]

Sorry but to me that's exactly what it's about - if we accept the 'potential' of a manager as the guide to suitability then we are accepting that we may fail and we'll accept that failure.

 

We have to PLAN to succeed - if we don't we are not living up to the legacy of LFC.

 

You always plan to succeed though! Every plan is to succeed.

 

What you cannot do, nor can you expect the club to do is guarantee to succeed. All plans need room to adapt and change, all plans can go awry. Our managerial choice is to fit in with our overall plan which is why Martinez is an option and (thankfully) O'Neill and Capello are not.

 

I have tried to avoid the comparison as I think it is a bit misleading, but we cannot buy Hazzard, what we have to do is identify Hazzard before he moves to Lille. As it stands, taking into account the options available to the club, that is what we have to do with our manager.

 

Kenny wasn't the best manager available to us last season, but he was what we needed. I personally think that Rafa is the best manager available now, but I don't think he is the right manager for us at this time! And that hurts saying that.

[Major Tom]

Sorry but to me that's exactly what it's about - if we accept the 'potential' of a manager as the guide to suitability then we are accepting that we may fail and furthermore we'll accept that failure as an outcome.

 

We have to PLAN to succeed - if we don't we are not living up to the legacy of LFC.

 

So, who's your choice?

[Kennys_spell]

You always plan to succeed though! Every plan is to succeed.

 

What you cannot do, nor can you expect the club to do is guarantee to succeed. All plans need room to adapt and change, all plans can go awry. Our managerial choice is to fit in with our overall plan which is why Martinez is an option and (thankfully) O'Neill and Capello are not.

 

I have tried to avoid the comparison as I think it is a bit misleading, but we cannot buy Hazzard, what we have to do is identify Hazzard before he moves to Lille. As it stands, taking into account the options available to the club, that is what we have to do with our manager.

 

Kenny wasn't the best manager available to us last season, but he was what we needed. I personally think that Rafa is the best manager available now, but I don't think he is the right manager for us at this time! And that hurts saying that.

 

You can't possibly "Plan to succeed" if your first impression of the Leader of that plan is that "he might do well" - I just don't see how that is possible.

 

Within every plan there is an "Assumptions clause" and within those assumptions you are stating that the plan is to succeed IF ALL THESE ELEMENTS ARE IN PLACE. If I produced a plan that said as an assumption "the leader of the plan may or may not be any good and therefore the plan may not succeed in its aims" I'd be out of the door within the time it took for the laughter to die down!

 

It's all very well FSG coming out and saying 'it's our aim to succeed' the proof of that statement is in the elements of the plan they put together to ensure that success.

 

I accept what you're saying - and for the most part agree, what I can't get my head around is the elements of the plan don't appear to be in place to ensure that plan succeeds.

[Kennys_spell]

So, who's your choice?

 

Kenny was my choice - and still is. he should have been given the time to see the plan through to success. In my eyes he was putting things in place to ensure the success of the plan and has been removed for none football reasons (Suarez case).

 

It's US (as a club) making the same mistake that was made with Benitez. The same mistake that Chelsea made with Mourinho.

 

But to answer your question, I would set my sights at Klopp, Benitez or AVB. no politics, no baggage, just pure footballing knowledge and ability. Anything else is just smoke and noise!

[Marko121]

Kenny was my choice - and still is. he should have been given the time to see the plan through to success. In my eyes he was putting things in place to ensure the success of the plan and has been removed for none football reasons (Suarez case).

 

It's US (as a club) making the same mistake that was made with Benitez. The same mistake that Chelsea made with Mourinho.

 

But to answer your question, I would set my sights at Klopp, Benitez or AVB. no politics, no baggage, just pure footballing knowledge and ability. Anything else is just smoke and noise!

 

Totally agree. Martinez etc should not even be considered if we are serious about getting near to where we want to be

[Whelan]

You can't possibly "Plan to succeed" if your first impression of the Leader of that plan is that "he might do well" - I just don't see how that is possible.

 

Within every plan there is an "Assumptions clause" and within those assumptions you are stating that the plan is to succeed IF ALL THESE ELEMENTS ARE IN PLACE. If I produced a plan that said as an assumption "the leader of the plan may or may not be any good and therefore the plan may not succeed in its aims" I'd be out of the door within the time it took for the laughter to die down!

 

It's all very well FSG coming out and saying 'it's our aim to succeed' the proof of that statement is in the elements of the plan they put together to ensure that success.

 

I accept what you're saying - and for the most part agree, what I can't get my head around is the elements of the plan don't appear to be in place to ensure that plan succeeds.

 

He isn't my first choice. But, Kenny has left and (judging by Villa approaching the Manc twat) it does look like Martinez.

 

So we have to look at the reasons, and focus upon his positive qualities. What if FSG want a coach (not manager) who can develop a team that plays attractive football, is brave (which he is by the way!) enough to make big decisions and tactical changes, can adapt (moved to 3 centre backs towards the end of the season), can produce good football and challenge with limited resources (respective to City, United and Chelsea), who is young and will develop alongside a young squad focussed on young players and identifying potential.

 

I think Martinez fits that bill!

 

He isn't proven I accept that, nor is he risk free. But the plan is to change the structure of the club and how it is managed, they may feel he is a good fit within that structure.

 

The fact remains that none of us can tell us what will happen. All young managers are a risk, but for all the talk of the history of LFC, appointing Kenny after Bob and Joe was a much bigger risk, and that turned out okay!

[Thants]

I think it's Brendan Rodgers, and LFC will hit the top 4. Just a hunch. It's only press-hungry Whelan shouting off, many managers will be interviewed with less mouthy chairman.

 

Boom. That's why I don't bet anymore.

[Whelan]

And when I say 'fits the bill' I don't mean he will succeed. I think he offers the skills that FSG seem to want from a coach.

[TheHowieLama]

And when I say 'fits the bill' I don't mean he will succeed. I think he offers the skills that FSG seem to want from a coach.

 

for this read - willing to do it on the short

[silverlining]

And when I say 'fits the bill' I don't mean he will succeed. I think he offers the skills that FSG seem to want from a coach.

 

Like "not being very good"?

[Whelan]

for this read - willing to do it on the short

 

There is no doubt that they want a manager who doesn't rely upon big signings!

 

I think FSG want their own Wenger, not their own Maureen.

[TheHowieLama]

There is no doubt that they want a manager who doesn't rely upon big signings!

 

I think FSG want their own Wenger, not their own Maureen.

 

I think they want their own Theo Epstein.

[Whelan]

Like "not being very good"?

 

Yes.

[Whelan]

I think they want their own Theo Epstein.

 

Lost me!

 

Something to do with Brian?

[silverlining]

There is no doubt that they want a manager who doesn't rely upon big signings!

 

I think FSG want their own Wenger, not their own Maureen.

 

No, what FSG want, and what moneyball is, is attempting to succeed on the cheap.

 

It worked - for a short while - in baseball.

 

It won't work here. They bought us as a distressed purchase and saw FFP as an opportunity to maximise their "on the cheap" strategy, without having to spend fortunes or build a new stadium.

 

Martinez ticks all their boxes because he is cheap, but will fail because he won't get into the CL, which is all they care about.