Racism

[Strontium]

14 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Don't take the bait.

 

This is a civil discussion you idiot. Bait? Give your head a wobble.

[Jack the Sipper]

2 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I'm not parroting anything though, because I'm not accusing anyone of being aligned with the organisation that calls itself Black Lives Matter. Nevertheless, there is no getting away from the fact that taking the knee is indelibly associated with that movement. Indeed, much as poppies are indelibly associated with the British Legion, which is one of the numerous reasons that so many of us don't wear them.

 

I agree, but it seems that where we differ, is that I wouldn't want that association (in some people's minds), that false narrative, driven by the far right and members of our government (...) to prevent good people from showing support for black people.

 

It's age-old smear tactics, and it would be playing into their hands to say "We'll we'd better stop it because it's now, wrongly, associated with Marxism." We need to fight as a people against accepting an agenda that's set by our opponents - in this case stopping making a gesture of support and nothing more because insidious elements who have no interest in seeing these shows of support have managed to create a false link from that show of support to Marxism.

 

 

[Colonel Bumcunt]

2 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

This Brexity Torygraph helmet is really not happy when a black man speaks out against racism. 

 

 

That's two days running now where a right wing commentator has told a 'national hero' black player to stay out of politics.  

They can't have it both ways.  The take a knee gesture didn't start as a political thing, it started when Colin Kaepernick just did it in a game, because he was out of political options, Trump didn't care about black people, so it was an act of solidarity with other black players.  

You can't disagree with black players taking the knee while also telling them to stay out of politics. 

 

Or please do try it, and you'll see all the high profile black players, and their high profile white friends,  just outright win the next election for Labour.  

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I think the Black Lives Matter movement is about more than being "against racism" (!)

You are incorrect. 

 

There is an organisation called Black Lives Matter UK which has broader - and more contentious - objectives.  They are not the same thing as the Black Lives Matter movement, which is all about being against racism (no quotation marks required).

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Nevertheless, there is no getting away from the fact that taking the knee is indelibly associated with that movement. 

Sounds to me like it's a Marxist gesture.  I'd boo them if I were you. 

[Strontium]

5 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You are incorrect. 

 

There is an organisation called Black Lives Matter UK which has broader - and more contentious - objectives.  They are not the same thing as the Black Lives Matter movement, which is all about being against racism (no quotation marks required).

 

The fact you need to make that qualification in the first place ("Nooo, it's not that Black Lives Matter, it's this other Black Lives Matter") proves that the whole thing is murky.

 

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Sounds to me like it's a Marxist gesture.  I'd boo them if I were you. 

 

Don't be a dick.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

8 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

The fact you need to make that qualification in the first place ("Nooo, it's not that Black Lives Matter, it's this other Black Lives Matter") proves that the whole thing is murky.

It's not murky and it's not difficult.  The organisation Black Lives Matter UK is a small and barely significant element of the Black Lives Matter movement.  Unfortunately, it provides a convenient "extreme Marxist" bogeyman for racist politicians and commentators who want to discredit the wider anti-racist Black Lives Matter movement. 

 

I'm surprised that you fell for it.

[Colonel Bumcunt]

31 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You are incorrect. 

 

There is an organisation called Black Lives Matter UK which has broader - and more contentious - objectives.  They are not the same thing as the Black Lives Matter movement, which is all about being against racism (no quotation marks required).

I think the actions of BLM are laudable, but their aims can be misconstrued as something else when they talk about 'ending white supremacy'.  If you WANT to undermine the movement, you can take that statement to the nth degree and say the group is a threat to the safety of white people.  But it isn't, and we as the majority of normal, compassionate, fair, intelligent, white people have to see this from their side, we've treated BAME people like cattle, literally, until really quite recently. They don't want to be in that position again, but fuck me, our police are murdering them and our politicians are telling them to stop complaining.  That literally happened last month in the UK and US, when two police officers were sentenced for murdering black lads.

 

The added salt to the wound is the Uncle Tom figures like Javid, Patel, Sunak, Kwarteng, Sharma, Zahawi as promiment Tories who do and say nothing to help their ethnic communities.  They are honorary white people in the eyes of their party (though probably not all of them), which obviously means the world to them. 

 

I have more respect for the Nazi party than the Conservatives.  At least the Nazi's were clear about what they wanted and who they hated.  The Tories are chameleons, dead-eyed, cold-blooded.  Even their name is a fucking joke, 'conservative', the same establishment-loving group that drove a tank through establishments like the judiciary, the NHS, the civil service, the rule of law.  

[Anubis]

4 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

This Brexity Torygraph helmet is really not happy when a black man speaks out against racism. 

 

 

 

Taken to school by Dulwich Hamlet in his replies.

 

 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I think it's quite insulting to imply that the players who take the knee are lying as they've clearly stated that they're doing it to campaign against racism and that it in no way shows support of any particular socio-political movement. 

 

The players have made that clear several times. To suggest that they're lying or simply can't form their own opinions on what the gesture means to them reeks of arrogance, rudeness and maybe some other things. And those who won't listen to their reasoning and who insists on linking their gesture to "BLM" largely have ulterior motives, whatever they may be. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I've never quite understood the power of the phrase "black lives matter" to get people's backs up. It's not as if there's an argument to say they shouldn't. 

[Strontium]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's not murky and it's not difficult.  The organisation Black Lives Matter UK is a small and barely significant element of the Black Lives Matter movement.  Unfortunately, it provides a convenient "extreme Marxist" bogeyman for racist politicians and commentators who want to discredit the wider anti-racist Black Lives Matter movement. 

 

I'm surprised that you fell for it.

 

Are you dense? I haven't "fallen for" anything. You're the one who brought up Marxism, not me. If you want to pretend that the (Nobel Peace prize nominated, Olaf Palme Prize-winning) international Black Lives Matter organisation is insignificant, that's your business.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

10 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Are you dense? I haven't "fallen for" anything. You're the one who brought up Marxism, not me. If you want to pretend that the (Nobel Peace prize nominated, Olaf Palme Prize-winning) international Black Lives Matter organisation is insignificant, that's your business.

Touchy wee prick, aren't you. Disingenuous, too.

 

Go on then, Plums, enlighten me: what, apart from opposing racism, is the BLM movement about.

[Strontium]

Just now, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Touchy wee prick, aren't you. Disingenuous, too.

 

Go on then, Plums, enlighten me: what, apart from opposing racism, is the BLM movement about.

 

Yeah, imagine me being touchy when you're making baseless accusations against me.

 

Surprised you didn't just check Wikipedia yourself:

 

Black Lives Matter - Wikipedia

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Yeah, imagine me being touchy when you're making baseless accusations against me.

 

Surprised you didn't just check Wikipedia yourself:

 

Black Lives Matter - Wikipedia

What accusations, you walloper?

 

I don't need to check Wikipedia to confirm what I already know: that BLM is an anti-racist movement.  You seem to be twitchy about it being too "political" but I can't see how any decent person could think that.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

 

I don't need to check Wikipedia to confirm what I already know: that BLM is an anti-racist movement.  You seem to be twitchy about it being too "political" but I can't see how any decent person could think that.

I can see the problem here .... 

[Strontium]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

What accusations, you walloper?

 

I don't need to check Wikipedia to confirm what I already know: that BLM is an anti-racist movement.  You seem to be twitchy about it being too "political" but I can't see how any decent person could think that.

 

You accused me of falling for Marxist bogeymen.

 

Once again, you're ignoring the not impertinent fact that Black Lives Matter is a movement AND an organisation.

[Bjornebye]

The slogan "Black Lives Matter" itself remains untrademarked by any group.^[6] 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

You accused me of falling for Marxist bogeymen.

 

Once again, you're ignoring the not impertinent fact that Black Lives Matter is a movement AND an organisation.

You mean the not impertinent fact that I mentioned on the last page, before you soiled yourself?  That fact?

 

OK. If you're not falling for the claims that support for  the BLM movement is the same as supporting an organisation like BLM UK, what is your concern about an anti-racist gesture being "too political"?

 

 

[Strontium]

If you're not willing to entertain the notion that BLM is even a quasi-political movement in any respect, I don't see the value in discussing it further.

 

The very fact that people are booing taking of the knee shows that it's a divisive issue, and therefore, political.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

If you're not willing to entertain the notion that BLM is even a quasi-political movement in any respect, I don't see the value in discussing it further.

 

The very fact that people are booing taking of the knee shows that it's a divisive issue, and therefore, political.

Or they are just racist arseholes?

 

Do you think the white players taking the knee are making a political statement? Or are they standing up to racism? 

[Section_31]

BLM isn't a political movement, people brand it that way so they can excuse why they oppose it. Marxist or some shite like that. Yeah I bet footballers are fully behind the idea of everyone getting the same wage and not owning anything.

[Bjornebye]

20 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

BLM isn't a political movement, people brand it that way so they can excuse why they oppose it. Marxist or some shite like that. Yeah I bet footballers are fully behind the idea of everyone getting the same wage and not owning anything.

Players are bending the knee to speak out against racism. It's that simple. I can't see what decent human being would oppose standing up to racism. Pure GB news shit. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

The massive point that is being missed is that the England players weren't taking the knee for BLM, "BLM," BLM UK, BLM USA or BLM anything. They were doing it "as a mechanism of peacefully protesting against discrimination, injustice, and inequality."

 

Their own words. From their own statement. Which doesn't mention BLM or the terms "black lives" at all. 

 

The willingness of some to subscribe to far right rhetoric is horiffic. But, not that surprising. 

[Mudface]