Jamie Carragher and the tits who think he has too much power.

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

Fuckin hell, didn't realise how much I'd bloody wrote! Apologies.

 

It was pretty much spot on, no need to apologise.

[chauncey]

I don't know what it is with some sections of our support. Is it the fact they don't like scousers?

 

I've seen this argument from you a few times, and it's strawgrasping of the highest order. Bootle-born Blundellsands-dwelling multimillionaire restaurant owner Carragher is about as far removed from your average scouser as... well, most of Anfield on a matchday.

 

I recall in the immediate aftermath of Benitez' sacking, Bascombe tweeted (and hurriedly removed) a comment along the lines of "the internet nay-sayers against Benitez going should know that this is the right decision according to those at the club who really matter". It was that badly worded and - snidey dig at 'fans from the internets' aside - it was very revealing with regards to whom he believes are/were the real powerbrokers at the club (i.e. Carra and Stevie).

 

Maybe that's a reason why people are getting fed up with Carra.

[Whelan]

I fucking hate scousers!

 

Anyone unfortunate to end up in the Darwin end against Blackburn can surely agree with that!

 

I also have a natural tendency to read anything that Ant and the rest of the TLW Anthill Mob say and automatically take the opposite side.

[AussieRed]

What we know:

 

4. He is still probably our best out and out defender, but we need a better all round package, thus enabling Carra to probably go to third choice, playing the Hyypia reliable back up role and passing on his nous to the younger players who are coming through e.g. Kelly and Wilson

 

I don't know about the political stuff but Carra is not close to being our best defender. The Greek is comfortably our best CB.

 

Since the Houllier era our defenders have been overated. Houllier played with four CBs and a deep lying defensive midfielder. The fullbacks rarely played up field and everything was hoofed forward for Heskey to flick on to Owen.

 

Benitez played with genuine fullbacks but with two defensive midfielders to protect the back four. Our CBs in this time only had to be good in limited space and this suited their abilities.

 

Carra has never been in the class of a Campbell or Ferdinand who were world class. He is similar to Terry but has less aerial ability and is worse on the ball and I do not think that Terry is world class. World class players have generally dominated Carra. Drogba normally shames him prison style and who can forget Henry destroying him on countless occassions. This does not happen to world class defenders. And these occurred in his supposed prime years.

 

The other thing that also identifies Carra's weakness is his tendancy to leave his feet. The best defenders Baresi, Maldini, Moore, Beckenbauer rarely if ever left their feet in a tackle. Slide tackles are used when you are a step too late and have to play without control. Interestingly that has always been Carra's signature, the desperate lunging tackle. The problem is that now he can't make it to the tackle and frequently just gives up on plays.

 

He is now a detriment to the team. He has little pace or strength, he gets pushed off the ball, beaten in the air and is horrible in possession. His performance at RB against Stoke is one of the worst performances in a Liverpool shirt in a long time.

 

The thing that troubles me the most is that at this time in his career he should be a positive inspiring influence but he seems to spend most of the time on the field shouting at the younger players. It is telling that he does not do the same to senior members such as Pepe or Gerrard. Probably because they would tell him where to go. This is typical bullying behaviour.

 

All in all I think we must look forward. We have dropped far better players than Carra before. And that is what made Liverpool one of the greatest clubs of all time.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

On Carra's standing in the team. It's obvious, well to me anyway that Carra hasn't been the same since the Mascherano and Alonso partnership split.

 

Also he had good solid players around him in defence and we sat higher up the pitch. So those parts of his game that would naturally decline due to age, and his lack of pace compared to some opposition players would not be as exposed.

 

Now this is not to say he's shit, because he's not, but it's a demonstration at how our transfer policy has been a bit shit as we have bought players in to potentially replace them have not worked out as they should have. Those brought in have either been made of balsa wood or just not up to it.

[chauncey]

I also have a natural tendency to read anything that Ant and the rest of the TLW Anthill Mob say and automatically take the opposite side.

 

Have recently adopted a similar policy with yer man, MonsterMasch, NgogWeTrust and Carradonna. Not a brain cell between them but an amusing bunch, all told.

[AussieRed]

On Carra's standing in the team. It's obvious, well to me anyway that Carra hasn't been the same since the Mascherano and Alonso partnership split.

 

Also he had good solid players around him in defence and we sat higher up the pitch. So those parts of his game that would naturally decline due to age, and his lack of pace compared to some opposition players would not be as exposed.

 

Now this is not to say he's shit, because he's not, but it's a demonstration at how our transfer policy has been a bit shit as we have bought players in to potentially replace them have not worked out as they should have. Those brought in have either been made of balsa wood or just not up to it.

 

This is rubbish. We have to stop blaming other players for exposing Carra's deficiencies. Either he is good enough or he is not. He is not. He hoofs because he doesn't trust the midfield. He gets raped because Johnson was out of position. He didn't trust Skrtel to get to the ball so he headbutted him in the face.

 

Come on. He is past it. It happens to us all eventually.

[Wor Horse]

Have recently adopted a similar policy with yer man, MonsterMasch, NgogWeTrust and Carradonna. Not a brain cell between them but an amusing bunch, all told.

 

Obsessed.

[Whelan]

This is rubbish. We have to stop blaming other players for exposing Carra's deficiencies. Either he is good enough or he is not. He is not. He hoofs because he doesn't trust the midfield. He gets raped because Johnson was out of position. He didn't trust Skrtel to get to the ball so he headbutted him in the face.

 

Come on. He is past it. It happens to us all eventually.

 

It isn't rubbish, Alonso and Mascherano were great players, of course Carragher is going to miss them, Rush was never the same player without Kenny! Some players fit into a system, some players need the system to perform. Vidic looks half the player without Ferdinand.

 

And Carragher isn't the only one who is playing the long ball more, Reina doesn't have anyone to show and ends up kicking it down pitch for Torres, how much of this is the influence of the manager is open to conjecture, but there is less desire to play it out from the back.

 

Carragher has not been as dominant for the past year or so, but he should have been used more intelligently, the fact that Skyrtl and Agger have not taken their chances is part of the reason.

 

I also think Carragher is getting a bit of unfair criticism simply because the criticisms aimed at him can be easily aimed at Gerrard!

[Lario]

I've heard that Carra wanted Benitez gone, but why so? Why didn't he like him?

 

Not fishing like. Genuinely.

[chauncey]

Obsessed.

 

Going to try and get me banned again, you cheeky cunt? Now piss off and choke on a jellied eel.

[Wor Horse]

I chatted with Carragher family neighbour, taxi driver by the way, and managed to have a word with Phil Carragher if I remember correctly, apparently Jamie's dad. I wouldn't even call it a chat, lasted for 2-3 minutes only, but noticeable after 10 seconds, how much he hated Rafael Benitez.

 

As if. I doubt you're even English let alone in a position to talk to people like that.

 

You type as if English is your 5th language.

[Aldonose]

On Carra's standing in the team. It's obvious, well to me anyway that Carra hasn't been the same since the Mascherano and Alonso partnership split.

 

Also he had good solid players around him in defence and we sat higher up the pitch. So those parts of his game that would naturally decline due to age, and his lack of pace compared to some opposition players would not be as exposed.

 

Now this is not to say he's shit, because he's not, but it's a demonstration at how our transfer policy has been a bit shit as we have bought players in to potentially replace them have not worked out as they should have. Those brought in have either been made of balsa wood or just not up to it.

 

I agree with that. Under Benitez the whole set-up in midfield was suited to protecting the back four (in particular the centre backs). Now that the protection isn't as great his defeciencies are being exposed more frequently.

[Guest ian garro]

I agree with that. Under Benitez the whole set-up in midfield was suited to protecting the back four (in particular the centre backs). Now that the protection isn't as great his defeciencies are being exposed more frequently.

 

If you add that to the fact that under the protection afforded to him in that system, he was playing alongside probably the greatest centre half we've ever had...

[Aldonose]

If you add that to the fact that under the protection afforded to him in that system, he was playing alongside probably the greatest centre half we've ever had...

 

Yeah, my Dad used to say to me that a lot of players are appreciated more when they've gone. People point to Alonso's absence as the main reason for our decline last season, I'd say it was as much to do with Sami's absence.

[Wor Horse]

Going to try and get me banned again, you cheeky cunt? Now piss off and choke on a jellied eel.

 

Hilarious.

 

You really should stop this trying to be funny lark, it's just not working for you guv.

[coachpotato]

.... a manager of a club has to have ultimate authority otherwise things start to rot, signs appeared that Rafa had lost that authority and nothing that Hodgson has done has restored this position. Unless we have a manager back in charge of ALL the players, this club will disintegrate from the dressing room outwards. A manager manages, players play. The alternative is Englands performance in the world cup, the usual dutch fall outs, the French at the world cup and the current cracks at our club.

 

However much you might despise ferguson there is now doubt who is in charge at the club and as a result you can see every player that gets anywhere near the first team doing as they are told because that ethos is firm.

 

Success follows.

 

I think there might be something in this.

[Best Believe It]

I'm with Purple Nose on this one.

[me1]

Got to admit - he is shite at the moment.

[Il Fenomeno]

I've seen this argument from you a few times, and it's strawgrasping of the highest order. Bootle-born Blundellsands-dwelling multimillionaire restaurant owner Carragher is about as far removed from your average scouser as... well, most of Anfield on a matchday.

 

Hey mate, Carragher's feet are firmly 'routed' to the ground, I don't know what you're talking about.

[Scooby Dudek]

I think it's totally unacceptable. He's the vice-captain of one of the biggest clubs in the world and had just put in one utterly shambolic performance devoid of any skill or leadership. People had every right to be pissed off at him and, in the heat of the moment, say something to him.

 

He's a senoir player, a role model and a figurehead for Liverpool so his conduct should meet the standards of the club; that means he should show a bit of courtesy and understanding to people who have travelled to a shithole, paid good money and were, quite rightly, feeling aggreived.

 

What's next, is he going to wade into the Anny Road end if the West Ham fans start singing unpleasant songs?

 

This.

 

Fans shout abuse at players all the time. To say otherwise is a lie. Players are expected to rise above it and walk away. Rightly or wrongly, that is way it is. As a legend, vice-captain he is meant to lead by example both on and off the pitch. Reacting to abuse is not an example to set.

[AussieRed]

It isn't rubbish, Alonso and Mascherano were great players, of course Carragher is going to miss them, Rush was never the same player without Kenny! Some players fit into a system, some players need the system to perform. Vidic looks half the player without Ferdinand.

 

And Carragher isn't the only one who is playing the long ball more, Reina doesn't have anyone to show and ends up kicking it down pitch for Torres, how much of this is the influence of the manager is open to conjecture, but there is less desire to play it out from the back.

 

Carragher has not been as dominant for the past year or so, but he should have been used more intelligently, the fact that Skyrtl and Agger have not taken their chances is part of the reason.

 

I also think Carragher is getting a bit of unfair criticism simply because the criticisms aimed at him can be easily aimed at Gerrard!

 

I understand what you are saying and agree in part. I think the system that Carra thrives in limits us as a team as we cannot commit enough players forward. I think that there are better players to build a system around than an ageing CB. Our midfield is good enough defensively. We are getting beaten mainly from set pieces and crosses into the area. Alonso and Masch would have no baring on this. Also, the constant hoofs have little to do with the midfield as he has been doing this for years.

 

Gerrard does not need other team mates to make him better. He is the opposite he can be played in multiple positions in different formations. Although, I would agree that he seems to be less of a force these days.

[Hoddy]

 

He always was one of the best in the league, his style of play made him very hard to play against but.....It is hard to define word world class. For me it must be a player who is one of the 10 best players in the world in certain position and would walk into any of the top eueropean teams.

 

Based on this approach Jamie was never a world class player in my opinion.

 

Whether Carragher was a 'natural' world-class talent (in the same way Frank Lampard wasn't born one either) is another argument, but I fail to see how anyone who saw his performances at Anfield vs Chelsea in 05 and Barca in 07 can say that, during that period of time, he wasn't one of the best in his position on the planet.

 

They weren't world-class performances; they were superhuman-class.

[dirty_sanchez]

"Is it that people don't like Scousers?" What the fuck? 99.9% of the people on TLW support Liverpool, what kind of a stupid fucking question is that?

 

"Never before has this club expressed vitriol from pillar to post over a under performing manager, and never before has some sections of the fan base seemingly wanted to get other entities chewed up and spit it."

 

Ant, I don't mean to sound patronising (although I suspect I will), but you're what? 19, 20? You try and post like you're some 60 year old super fan, but it's really obvious that your posts about Liverpool are pastiches of what you've read on other forums. The reason that this vitriol is so obvious now is because the internet gives every fan a voice to out their frustrations that would have only otherwise been obvious at the match and in pubs and such like.

 

I think it's naive in the extreme to think that Carragher's influence at the club doesn't extend past the boundaries of the pitch and the training ground. He's one of the most senior (in most meanings of the word) players at the club. It would be a ridiculous oversight of any new owners, chairmen, managing directors etc to not consult with him about things and Purslow almost certainly would have, given that he's wasn't a football man, he was a businessman. It's not some anti Carragher agenda. It's not a "Carragher is a cunt" drive.

 

Your post is actually pretty ironic actually. You've created a thread criticising people for taking a strong viewpoint on Carragher. By taking the polar opposite strong viewpoint on Carragher.

[ritchie]

I've seen this argument from you a few times, and it's strawgrasping of the highest order. Bootle-born Blundellsands-dwelling multimillionaire restaurant owner Carragher is about as far removed from your average scouser as... well, most of Anfield on a matchday.

 

I recall in the immediate aftermath of Benitez' sacking, Bascombe tweeted (and hurriedly removed) a comment along the lines of "the internet nay-sayers against Benitez going should know that this is the right decision according to those at the club who really matter". It was that badly worded and - snidey dig at 'fans from the internets' aside - it was very revealing with regards to whom he believes are/were the real powerbrokers at the club (i.e. Carra and Stevie).

 

Maybe that's a reason why people are getting fed up with Carra.

 

Carragher helped conspire with the likes of Bascombe, and Purslow, to undermine Benitez. It's obviously a fact that Bascombe wanted Rafa out, and had a go at him most weeks in his paper. It's also a fact that Carragher did exclusives with Bascombe, even though Bascombe was quoting 'senior players' as being against the manager. Benitez got sacked and Hodgson got appointed. Carragher now strongly backs Hodgson, when he's clearly not the right man for Liverpool.

 

It seems pretty clear that a lot of players at Liverpool DON'T back Hodgson. And most probably this is a big part of a dressing room lacking in any team spirit or togetherness. One of the biggest clubs in the world ending up with a 63-year-old journeyman, with zero ambition, who's never won a major trophy 'just because he's English'.

 

If i'm wrong then i'll hold my hands up. And, as I say, by all means someone like Bascombe or Dave who have more inside info than me can come on and put me straight - but it just seems clear to me. I hope i'm wrong.

Edited November 16, 2010 by ritchie