Jamie Carragher and the tits who think he has too much power.

[Guest San Don]

San Don

 

What would be the point of looking for a revenge? I wanted Benitez gone provided we got a superior manager and as I clearly emphasised, what you probably missed with your Carragher attorney glasses, I don't follow RAWK, don't like it and always had big respect for Jamie Carragher. It's funny when you speak of vendetta and blastt RAWK and Twitter without basic ability to read and understand what you read. I delibreately outlined, that I meant credible ITKs, mostly neutrals on Rafa, including some lads, who couldn't stand the man. And as much as you can't properly read, you use your imagination and suggest I'll have a go with other key figures. Made me chuckle.

 

Who said you were looking for revenge? I said you're pursuing a vendetta. How many threads have you posted in now about Carragher?

 

My point about twatter and rawk still stands. I wouldnt believe either of those two sources if they told me LFC played in red.

 

As for ITK's, ha!

[Scooby Dudek]

The point of this thread is to ask what are people going on about Carragher having too much power at this club.

 

I've been reading comments on twitter, on here and other websites. Calling Carra a cunt for getting Rafa the sack, giving Roy the job. It's bizarre. If there is one person I truly believe has this clubs interest at heart. It's Jamie.

 

I don't know what it is with some sections of our support. Is it the fact they don't like scousers? Is it they don't like fans idolising such an old school defender. I genuinely don't know what it is. But the vitrol about him is bizarre and unfounded. It's become a niche market with Carragher. I've seen piss take pictures of him with Hodgson. Who the fuck knows what Carra thinks about Hodgson? He might want him sacked, he might want him to stay, he might also think fixing this problem is going to take more than a manager change and a few big name purchases.

 

Carragher is on his way out, his glory days are behind him but as a player he can still offer us leadership and a steady head. He might be rash, he might be too passionate but you can never doubt he does what he does because he is Liverpool Football Club.

 

Carragher can never have too much power at this football club and the notion that he himself got Rafa sacked is fucking ridiculous as it is funny, and it's also ridiculous that he also wanted Hodgson. We don't know Carragher's preference but many fans seem to be wanting to find a scape goat, and Carra fits that bit perfectly.

 

I hope the fans who are reading this, and they know who they are. Realise that Jamie Carragher is one of the few shining lights in this team. He could play his trade in Sunny Spain and Italy, have a piss easy job, but no he's here, is Gerrard's talent deserve a bigger stage, so does Carraghers.

 

Never before has this club expressed vitriol from pillar to post over a under performing manager, and never before has some sections of the fanbase seemingly wanted to get other entities chewed up and spit it in an orchestrated internet campaign of manager and player change.

 

Jamie deserve better than this.

 

I also have the clubs best interest at heart.

 

I also believe Jamie beserves better than that.

[goatboy59]

Depends if they're acting like 'fucking pricks' or not.

 

Telling a player to go into the dressing room and tell his manager to "fuck off" would seem to qualify them as such.

 

Shouldn't have said it like, but it's typical poodle behaviour to imply he said it to everyone.

[ritchie]

I don't want to provide you with quite big load of proofs or half-proofs, that he could have taken part in it, because you seem fireproof for any criticism for Carra in this area. It's not the question of his contract, it's a minor thing, but there are at least 53 incidents, which I managed to enlist in my copy book, that speak volumes. It could be right, could be wrong. I also believed in Carragher lasting innocence and rejected all this talk as rubbish until I started to think retrospectively of the scenario that seems possible or even probable now. There are countless ITK, not only self-confessed ones, but the ones on twitter or RAWK (not my favourite place), who get the squad and all the transfer well ahead of them taking place, who say it was Carra who wanted Rafa gone and orchestrated it. Explains all the dressing room problems we've been having for last 4-5 months.

 

If we're honest alot of the lads on here wanted Rafa out with a passion, so appreciate the role Jamie played in his departure. It's easier to defend wrongdoing when the wrongdoing leads to a result you were desperate for.

 

For the record i'm no Benitez lover before someone says it. I just think this club ballsed up massively appointing Hodgson.

 

Carragher's close relationship with Bascombe and Purslow is telling enough.

 

His constant, and ever increasing, bullying of other players does no good to team spirit. He's not a leader; he's a bully. Say what you like about John Terry, and I hate the cunt, but he never treats his team-mates the way Carragher does on the pitch. He never encourages, just shouts and screams. He'll make a great manager!

[Cherry Ghost]

We spent many years yearning for a local hero who believed in the club as much as the fans, we had a taste with Fowler but only when Carragher and Gerrard came along did we have two hard working local lads who appeared to care as much as the fans. That's one of the problems of modern day football, its stuffed full of mercenaries who declare their love for the club say they've always wanted to play for us then fuck off when a better deal is offered.

 

With SG and JC we had the real deal. Unfortunately this gave both players a special power over anyone who did not have that local connection or were not as fully attached to the club. Can you imagine an 'outsider' trying to shift either of these two characters before last year.

 

This has fundamentally shifted the power base in the club, much in the same way that it did to a degree with that horrible git Terry at Chelsea.

 

I'm not going to comment upon JC's involvement with Rafa because I don't know but what I do know is that Shankly would have quite happily removed any player regardless of status, Ferguson similiar, Wenger also.

 

A manager of a club has to have ultimate authority otherwise things start to rot, signs appeared that Rafa had lost that authority and nothing that Hodgson has done has restored this position. Unless we have a manager back in charge of ALL the players this club will disintegrate from the dressing room outwards. A manager manages, players play. The alternative is Englands performance in the world cup, the usual dutch fall outs, the French at the world cup and the current cracks at our club.

 

However much you might despise ferguson there is now doubt who is in charge at the club and as a result you can see every player that gets anywhere near the first team doing as they are told because that ethos is firm.

 

Success follows.

[Jim MM]

Bollocks,

 

It's okay for the vice captain to refer to travelling supporters as "fuckin pricks"

 

No, it's understandable if he is as pissed off as those supporters.

Rep for Ant, Carra has been called worse things than he is alleged to have called supporters, all because of rumours and insinuation.

None of it would be an issue if we were playing proper football and everybody wasn't looking for scapegoats.

[TheHowieLama]

Depends if they're acting like 'fucking pricks' or not.

 

Lets face it, if they are at an away to Stoke they are probably all the things that the OP is bigging Carra up for.

[TheResonator]

If there is one person I truly believe has this clubs interest at heart. It's Jamie.

 

He might be rash, he might be too passionate but you can never doubt he does what he does because he is Liverpool Football Club.

 

Carragher can never have too much power at this football club

 

Well, presuming you represent at least a certain portion of fans, here's your answer about why people might think he has too much power. He does represent the local lad, the old Liverpool spirit that many (and I include myself in that) are keen to preserve as a part of the club, but that, also, makes him a powerful figure. He, as you succinctly put it, 'is Liverpool Football club'; so if he was dropped from the squad, the theoretical ethos of LFC is, in part, attacked. If he is marginalized our history is marginalized; if he is replaced by a foreign player, questions will be asked by a section of the fan base because he has been such a great servant. So of course he has more power than the average player.

 

I have no doubt that he always 'has the club's best interests at heart'; the problem is that he also seems to think he knows what is in the club's best interests. Last season it was evident that he didn't trust Lucas & Masch in distribution and bypassed them a lot in search of a more advanced player. He publicly bollocked Arbeloa at the end of 08/09. In the Bolton game (I think) Lucas took a massive kick to the ribs in the last minutes, an atrocious challenge. Love or hate Leiva, there is no denying that he's a brave player - but there was Carragher over him trying to pull him to his feet, the inference being - of course - that he was able to get to his feet but was exaggerating or play-acting. Lucas looked furious and shrugged him off. These kind of things are typical of his character, and go some way to suggest that he thinks that there are some players that bleed Liverpool and some that don't. Can you imagine him, for example, over Stevie trying to pull him up? Or would he be in the face of the player that made the challenge?

 

Off the pitch, there have been suggestions that he has fed stories to journalists, there were the comments which inferred that Benitez getting into public squabbles with Allardyce and whoever was bad for the image of the club, his father reputedly sounding off about Rafa (where do you suppose he picks up most of his insider info?), the text Houllier reputedly received from one of the remaining players from his reign when Benitez left... This is all conjectural, all speculative and inconclusive, but can you see, maybe, why people put two and two together and think they've found four?

 

To say he can never have too much power at the club is another representation of the kind of attitude a number of people will suggest has got us into the mess we are in at the moment. Just because somebody passionately loves a club does not mean they know what's best for it, and I can't believe I even have to say that. Many members of the BNP will tell you how much they love this country. Many people on these boards will tell you how much they love the club, our history, the city, and two of those same people might both love the club an equal amount but have completely opposing ideas about where the club ought to go in the future : one may lead to glory and the other to ruin. Passion is not enough. So until Carragher has proven that intellectually and philosophically he can guide the club in the right direction (and maybe even then): yes, he can have 'too much power'.

 

A few years ago I thought Carragher was one of the best centre-backs in the country and I was mystified that he was overlooked for England. He was a fantastic leader, a real last-ditch defender and a hugely important part of the team. At the moment, he looks like he knows that his time in the spine of the team is drawing to a close, and he is determined to hold onto his position at all costs. That, too, is probably because he loves the club: but is that what's best for the club? No, in my opinion. It sends the wrong message to the other players and it will, in the end, prove detrimental to our on-the-field performances.

 

The man is a club legend, and you'll never hear me call him a 'cunt' or anything else of that nature - but his time in the first team is drawing to a close. His passion, as great a strength as it has been in the past, will make that difficult: his dealings in the past with England and his comments about how he would leave us if he became a bit-part player reinforce the fact that he's fiercely proud. But if he wants to love the club rationally as well as passionately, he'll step down gracefully when the time comes and avoid playing any kind of power game over his place. It would be awful to see such a great player ruin his reputation.

[Durango]

Depends if they're acting like 'fucking pricks' or not.

Calling for a inept Managers head, is NOT the actions of fuckin pricks

[goatboy59]

If we're honest alot of the lads on here wanted Rafa out with a passion, so appreciate the role Jamie played in his departure. It's easier to defend wrongdoing when the wrongdoing leads to a result you were desperate for.

 

 

Yep. That's what I'll remember Jamie Carragher for.

 

The other 14 years were a bit shit really.

[Cantrell20]

I will leave the whole situation free of judgement, time will tell, wouldn't like to offend Carragher with fake accusations. Still, can't blindly accept every single action of Jamie, no one is immune to criticism. Same happens with club sources, who aren't only Rafa fanboys and usually boast more objectivity than typical RAWKists praying at Benitez altar.

 

Quite a few people are spreading the rumours about Carragher now, which is still rumour and nothing more, but there were also many joining the media bandwagon (usually galvanised by Chris Bascombe, author of Jamie's autobiorgaphy btw) saying Rafa lost the dressing room. It's also yet unproven, same as hilarious talk Torres would leave provided Rafa stayed at the club. I found out on Atletico Madrid Spanish forum an ITK (credible with team line-ups), that Torres never wanted Benitez gone, although he wasn't his fan in the mould of Kuyt, Reina and Mascherano. Still, there was a lot talk about "lost dressing room". Babel and Riera definitely fell out with Rafa, but credit to Ryan, Sneijder revealed, that Babel considered Rafa a great coach and he even called him during the World Cup quite a few times. Benayoun problem started actually in May, earlier in the season he admitted his respect and even once admiration for Benitez. So it's hard to think of many disenchanted players and threatening to leave, definitely less than now. Rafa is a poor man mananger, but the issue was overhyped in the media, by Bascombe mostly.

[Juan Galonso]

Bollocks,

 

It's okay for the vice captain to refer to travelling supporters as "fuckin pricks"

 

John are you accusing the man of lying as he said he meant a couple of fans who were giving him shit when he came off the pitch didn't he?

[goatboy59]

Calling for a inept Managers head, is NOT the actions of fuckin pricks

 

Calling for a player to do that too IS though.

 

Which is quite ironic as it's the very thing they're accusing him of doing to Rafa.

[goatboy59]

I will leave the whole situation free of judgement, time will tell, wouldn't like to offend Carragher with fake accusations.

 

Oh do fuck off.

[billypilgrimnz]

I really don't give a shit what may or may not be happening behind the scenes, because we know fuck all about that. All I care about is the performances on the field.

 

And the simple matter is, Carragher has not been playing well enough for the past 18-24 months to be a nailed on starter in our side. It's that simple. I don't mind him playing some games (maybe even the majority, depending on others' injuries and/or form), as he has his strengths, but this weird insistence by our previous manager and our current one that Carragher is totally, fundamentally undroppable is limiting as as a side. We have been stodgy and awful in so many areas of the game, including defence, and yet Carragher continues to be Teflon. At least TRY something different, see if we can't gain something by not playing Carragher for every single fucking minute of every single game.

 

After all, they say insanity is merely doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

 

Posts like the one that starts this thread merely serve to cloud a rather simple issue by appealing to past glories and a bullshit idea of a player deserving his place for reasons other than how he is playing. Simple as that. If Carragher isn't prepared to sit on the bench, that's his decision - but we shouldn't be encouraging his narcissm. (based on his book)

[Il Fenomeno]

He's a world class player

 

WAS a world class player, he's not anymore, which is why most people don't think he should get a say in who the manager is.

[TheHowieLama]

Calling for a player to do that too IS though.

 

Which is quite ironic as it's the very thing they're accusing him of doing to Rafa.

 

so he did do it, but he cannot anymore --- now that is irony

[Durango]

John are you accusing the man of lying as he said he meant a couple of fans who were giving him shit when he came off the pitch didn't he?

 

Carragher's a wide as fuckin Lime Street,

 

no one's calling him a liar,but I find it convenient that someone give him the finger to justify his disgusting remarks

[ritchie]

We spent many years yearning for a local hero who believed in the club as much as the fans, we had a taste with Fowler but only when Carragher and Gerrard came along did we have two hard working local lads who appeared to care as much as the fans. That's one of the problems of modern day football, its stuffed full of mercenaries who declare their love for the club say they've always wanted to play for us then fuck off when a better deal is offered.

 

With SG and JC we had the real deal.

 

I think we all over played this fan-on-the-pitch shite with Carragher.

 

I always saw him that way as well, but then I read his book. He was a dyed-in-the-wool Everton fan until his early 20s for fuck's sake. I'm not having a go at him for that, but it's hardly like the average die-hard fan who's supported the club all his life.

 

Then he said in his book - and since repeated - that he'd leave to go somewhere else the moment he's not a first-team regular.

 

A great servant to the club? Absoloutely. A legend? Probably. But he needs to be careful about ruining his reputation by calling fans pricks and by leaking stuff to journos with an agenda and constantly bullying team mates on the pitch.

 

His family are all blue noses and were campaigning to get Rafa out. That's what Tomkins said; Carragher phoned up to argue, "that doesn't mean I agree with them". Did he phone up Bascombe to say "I don't agree with that", when Chris said Rafa had lost the support of senior players. Erm . . . who do you think Chris's source was FFS?

 

Are Carra's family campaigning to get Hodgson out? I don't think so.

[Cantrell20]

Who said you were looking for revenge? I said you're pursuing a vendetta. How many threads have you posted in now about Carragher?

 

My point about twatter and rawk still stands. I wouldnt believe either of those two sources if they told me LFC played in red.

 

As for ITK's, ha!

 

Mate, you must have mistaken me for someone. I can't recall a single thread I posted referring to Carragher in any way. I'm not a regular poster here, had less than 200 posts so far, so you can skim them in 10 minutes to find out you are blatantly wrong. Cheers.

[Guest San Don]

Well, presuming you represent at least a certain portion of fans, here's your answer about why people might think he has too much power. He does represent the local lad, the old Liverpool spirit that many (and I include myself in that) are keen to preserve as a part of the club, but that, also, makes him a powerful figure. He, as you succinctly put it, 'is Liverpool Football club'; so if he was dropped from the squad, the theoretical ethos of LFC is, in part, attacked. If he is marginalized our history is marginalized; if he is replaced by a foreign player, questions will be asked by a section of the fan base because he has been such a great servant. So of course he has more power than the average player.

 

I have no doubt that he always 'has the club's best interests at heart'; the problem is that he also seems to think he knows what is in the club's best interests. Last season it was evident that he didn't trust Lucas & Masch in distribution and bypassed them a lot in search of a more advanced player. He publicly bollocked Arbeloa at the end of 08/09. In the Bolton game (I think) Lucas took a massive kick to the ribs in the last minutes, an atrocious challenge. Love or hate Leiva, there is no denying that he's a brave player - but there was Carragher over him trying to pull him to his feet, the inference being - of course - that he was able to get to his feet but was exaggerating or play-acting. Lucas looked furious and shrugged him off. These kind of things are typical of his character, and go some way to suggest that he thinks that there are some players that bleed Liverpool and some that don't. Can you imagine him, for example, over Stevie trying to pull him up? Or would he be in the face of the player that made the challenge?

 

Off the pitch, there have been suggestions that he has fed stories to journalists, there were the comments which inferred that Benitez getting into public squabbles with Allardyce and whoever was bad for the image of the club, his father reputedly sounding off about Rafa (where do you suppose he picks up most of his insider info?), the text Houllier reputedly received from one of the remaining players from his reign when Benitez left... This is all conjectural, all speculative and inconclusive, but can you see, maybe, why people put two and two together and think they've found four?

 

To say he can never have too much power at the club is another representation of the kind of attitude a number of people will suggest has got us into the mess we are in at the moment. Just because somebody passionately loves a club does not mean they know what's best for it, and I can't believe I even have to say that. Many members of the BNP will tell you how much they love this country. Many people on these boards will tell you how much they love the club, our history, the city, and two of those same people might both love the club an equal amount but have completely opposing ideas about where the club ought to go in the future : one may lead to glory and the other to ruin. Passion is not enough. So until Carragher has proven that intellectually and philosophically he can guide the club in the right direction (and maybe even then): yes, he can have 'too much power'.

 

A few years ago I thought Carragher was one of the best centre-backs in the country and I was mystified that he was overlooked for England. He was a fantastic leader, a real last-ditch defender and a hugely important part of the team. At the moment, he looks like he knows that his time in the spine of the team is drawing to a close, and he is determined to hold onto his position at all costs. That, too, is probably because he loves the club: but is that what's best for the club? No, in my opinion. It sends the wrong message to the other players and it will, in the end, prove detrimental to our on-the-field performances.

 

The man is a club legend, and you'll never hear me call him a 'cunt' or anything else of that nature - but his time in the first team is drawing to a close. His passion, as great a strength as it has been in the past, will make that difficult: his dealings in the past with England and his comments about how he would leave us if he became a bit-part player reinforce the fact that he's fiercely proud. But if he wants to love the club rationally as well as passionately, he'll step down gracefully when the time comes and avoid playing any kind of power game over his place. It would be awful to see such a great player ruin his reputation.

 

 

Got to be the biggest load of conjecture, impression, hearsay and make believe I've ever read.

[Guest San Don]

Carragher's a wide as fuckin Lime Street,

 

no one's calling him a liar,but I find it convenient that someone give him the finger to justify his disgusting remarks

 

Think you'll find philwatson1981 twatted he was a liar! Look to the left.

[Guest davelfc]

Got to be the biggest load of conjecture, impression, hearsay and make believe I've ever read.

 

Don't forget supposition as well.

[TheHowieLama]

Hyppia was a better player, and a better servant - he got fucked off

[Durango]

Calling for a player to do that too IS though.

 

Which is quite ironic as it's the very thing they're accusing him of doing to Rafa.

 

No one was asking Carragher to have a go at the Manager,fans where venting their anger at a clueless Manager.

 

Carragher said he was getting shit from a couple of fans,that's why he referred to them as fuckin pricks,

read into that what you like