Jamie Carragher and the tits who think he has too much power.

[TheHowieLama]

they were peas from the same pod and enjoyed a very mutually beneficial relationship.

 

.

 

Much like Torres, he will look back at those years and realize the gaff got it right for him.

[Guest ShoePiss]

As was alluded to, I have no idea what was said - I can be pretty fuckin sure he wasn't hit by a battery or listened monkey sounds though right? Probably no one singin about disaster, of course this is just a guess. After all, these were his fans, and I totally agree, fair game. I responded to your outlines for etiquette when at the match.

 

What the fuck?

[s(k)aturation]

As was alluded to, I have no idea what was said - I can be pretty fuckin sure he wasn't hit by a battery or listened monkey sounds though right? Probably no one singin about disaster, of course this is just a guess. After all, these were his fans, and I totally agree, fair game. I responded to your outlines for etiquette when at the match.

 

Que?

[TheHowieLama]

Examples of true abuse that goes on, as you know. To point, what would possibly have been said that approaches this?

[Guest ShoePiss]

Examples of true abuse that goes on, as you know. To point, what would possibly have been said that approaches this?

 

True abuse? You don't understand the word it seems. Let's end it here.

[TheHowieLama]

you're not paying to abuse people and the ticket doesn't give you license to do that.

 

True abuse? You don't understand the word it seems. Let's end it here.

 

OK.

[vonk]

It's not about Rafa for fuck's sake. It's about the here and now.

 

The spirit amongst the squad is amongst the worst that it's ever been at this club. That's where the rumours stem from. That and the fact that we've been lumbered with the worst manager we've had in living memory.

 

D you think if we were in the top 4 and Pellegrini - or whoever - was in charge, anyone would care about shite like this?

 

It's because Roy Hodgson got a job he should never have got - and why is Jamie Carragher about the only one publically backing Hodgson, something he's already done several times, whilst the likes of Reina and Torres seem at the end of their tether? These are the questions people are asking. It's not about Rafa tbh.

 

I may have missed it, but when did Carra publically back Hodgson?

[TheResonator]

It is like Donald Donaldson has spawned a load of clones in his long-standing absence on this thread. Some absolute poison being spouted about a great Liverpool servant.

 

People have opinions. If you want them to stay clean you ought to set an example yourself, because 'poison' is either universally acceptable or it isn't acceptable at all. When someone posts a divisive, incendiary thread riddled with ludicrous accusations such as 'people pick on Carragher because he's Scouse', it's going to provoke a vitriolic response: not composed of people saying "absolutely, hubcap thieving bastards" but rather "actually, I don't think that's why questions have been raised..."

 

You can't have one rule for one and all that.

[stringvest]

My understanding was that a fan had asked Carragher to tell Hodgson to fuck off. If that was the context, any player would have been right to jump to the managers defence.

[chauncey]

Examples of true abuse that goes on, as you know. To point, what would possibly have been said that approaches this?

 

 

Fuck's sake.

[TheHowieLama]

My understanding was that a fan had asked Carragher to tell Hodgson to fuck off. If that was the context, any player would have been right to jump to the managers defence.

 

and fair play to him, it is well within his right to react - but to suggest it is somehow abusive to Carragher, or even to Hodgson is ludicrous. FFS if Hodgson was in front of me after the game I could have said it to him.

[TheHowieLama]

 

Fuck's sake.

 

idiot - read the context

[Guest ShoePiss]

and fair play to him, it is well within his right to react - but to suggest it is somehow abusive to Carragher, or even to Hodgson is ludicrous. FFS if Hodgson was in front of me after the game I could have said it to him.

 

I've not read stringvest's version of events before and I wouldn't call that abuse. By the way, abuse doesn't have to be throwing batteries or touching children, a simple "fuck off you twat" is abuse. This is what I've read on it from twitter :-

 

@theliverpoolway The Liverpool Way

Just spoke to carragher. He said a fan gave him the fingers and shouted at him, so he had a go back. Wasn't about dalglish chants.

[Kevin D]

TBH I heard it was pretty routine for Carragher to tell fans who give him stick to "fuck off". Can't believe most of us wouldn't do the same. Its all just part of who he is. But its a big deal in this particular instance because? The Hoofing? Undermining Benitez? Support for Hodgson? All of the above?

 

I think it's totally unacceptable. He's the vice-captain of one of the biggest clubs in the world and had just put in one utterly shambolic performance devoid of any skill or leadership. People had every right to be pissed off at him and, in the heat of the moment, say something to him.

 

He's a senoir player, a role model and a figurehead for Liverpool so his conduct should meet the standards of the club; that means he should show a bit of courtesy and understanding to people who have travelled to a shithole, paid good money and were, quite rightly, feeling aggreived.

 

What's next, is he going to wade into the Anny Road end if the West Ham fans start singing unpleasant songs?

[TheHowieLama]

I've not read stringvest's version of events before and I wouldn't call that abuse. By the way, abuse doesn't have to be throwing batteries or touching children, a simple "fuck off you twat" is abuse. This is what I've read on it from twitter :-

 

@theliverpoolway The Liverpool Way

Just spoke to carragher. He said a fan gave him the fingers and shouted at him, so he had a go back. Wasn't about dalglish chants.

 

But you are misunderstanding me friend - its fine for Carra to get a strop on but it is equally fine for a fan ( a travelling fan no less - to fucking Stoke) to say

"Hey, you were crap". Or any of the countless variations it could take. In my mind it does not even beget the word abuse (that was yours, I was merely pointing out how out of context it seemed - to me - given the tenor of almost every match).

[vonk]

Might be in decline on the pitch but there's no-one who wears their heart on their sleeve more. I'm sure he was devastated by the performance so any one of us might have reacted the same when abused. Doesn't bother me in the slightest that he did it, and any fan who allegedly abused him should have been man enough to take it. You can shout abuse at players but don't whine if they give it you back.

[The Dude Abides]

But sadly unlike Sami, Carra didn't have anyone like Hyypia alongside him I.E Carragher to help him out.

 

Oh how i chuckled.

 

It's this kind of attitude that's only going to hold us back as a club.

[WaltonRed]

I cant believe people are having a go at him for hitting back at some nob in the ground

[G Richards]

What we know:

 

1. Carra has been a great servant to the club

2. He still is, and he plays on, either at CB or RB and he gives his all

3. His level has dropped a little since Old Father Time catches us all

4. He is still probably our best out and out defender, but we need a better all round package, thus enabling Carra to probably go to third choice, playing the Hyypia reliable back up role and passing on his nous to the younger players who are coming through e.g. Kelly and Wilson

 

All the rumours of player power, influencing the ousting of managers, hiring of managers, timing of new contracts etc. are just rumours.

 

We shouldn't get too heated about it all.

[Randy Marsh]

I've got plenty of time for Carra and the lad has built up more than enough credit with the fans over the past decade or so. He will rightly go down as a legend, and it just so happens that the greatest night in our history was his finest hour. He's given the club fantastic service and no one can ever say he's ever left anything on the pitch at the end of a match. His passion and effort has been unmatched.

 

From what I can see, there are two issues which he is getting stick on.

 

The first is his playing ability. Carra is now the wrong side of 30, it is inevitable that his fitness and capabilities will gradually diminish. That's not unique to Carra, it happens to every player. Do I think he's diminished as rapidly as some would suggest? No, not one bit. To me, he's still our best defender. The thing which I don't understand is why he isn't afforded the same levels of protection as Stevie and Nando receive from the management. He shouldn't be playing every game, but 99% of the time he does. He should be given the odd match off to rest and keep him fresh.

 

One major gripe people have with him is the "hoof" up the line and his general distribution. That is something that pisses me off, but then again I see it as merely a symptom of a greater problem. He should not be playing right back at all. He hasn't got the fitness to play the modern right back roll, and it's unfair to ask him to do so. He admits in his book that he refused to do so under Rafa, so I don't see how 2 years down the line he will be any better at it. His 5 iron down the line stems from him basically not being able to advance forward, take on a few men and whip in a cross. That's not a criticism because he shouldn't have to be able to do that, he's an out and out defender. The manager is doing him a disservice by playing him at full back, when Martin Kelly proved last week how much more suited to the roll he is. He hasn't got the legs to do it, and should be kept at CB and CB only from now on. Look at Chelsea last week, Carra at his best. That's where he needs to stay, and with the odd rested game every now and then he'll look a lot better for it.

 

The other criticism is this idea that he is "too big for his boots" off the field. There are plenty of stories doing the rounds, I don't need to go in to them all because everyone knows them. I'm sure the vast majority of them will be bollocks. I'll be honest and say that I wasn't happy with some of the shit that appeared in certain newspapers over the past season or two, stuff which was very critical of the previous management. Some of it was very specific, and I don't think you needed to be an expert to see that it most probably had came from either him or Stevie, given the authors of these articles and their links with the said players. Maybe I'm 100% wrong, and even if I'm not this kind of thing goes on throughout the game anyway so it's wrong to pick out a couple of cases.

 

The talk is that Carra was very very keen for Rafa to depart and for Roy to take over. I have no proof to say whether that's true or not so I'm not going to conclusively believe that it is, although it wouldn't surprise me if it was the case. Carra spoken of the need for us to bring in a British manager, and a need for us to get the club "liked" again, in reference to Rafa's spats with O'Neil, Allardyce, Ferguson etc etc. To me, that's a load of bollocks. I couldn't give two shites if everyone hated us because Rafa wouldn't fall in to line with the LMA clique. I also couldn't give a shite if the manager is British or Ethiopian, as long as he's the best we can possibly recruit.

 

IF, and it's a big IF, it's true that he actively sought the removal of Rafa then all I'd say is that he needs to remember what he was before Rafa came here and what he was a couple of years later. That's not to do him a disservice because he's a very talented footballer who has achieved everything through his own passion and commitment, but Rafa improved him as a player no end, to the point where he was widely regarded around Europe as one of the continent's best. Of course, he is entitled to his opinion and if that was that we needed a change then fair enough. Like I said, I'd just hope that respect was retained and there was no active whisper campaign to remove him.

 

With regards to this incident on Saturday, who knows what happened. If he responded to personal abuse from someone close then fair enough. If he responded to paying fan's being generally fed up with another gutless performance in this manner then he's out of order. He'd probably be wise not to respond at all, but he's passionate and that's just the way he is.

 

All in all, Cara will rightly go down as a great at this club. He's not perfect but why should people expect him to be? If you put footballer's on that much of a moral pedestal then prepare to feel let down. He does and says things that piss me off but then so does my dad and my best mate. No one can doubt that his heart is in the right place and that's all that matters to me.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Randy Marsh

[Randy Marsh]

Fuckin hell, didn't realise how much I'd bloody wrote! Apologies.

[TommyW]

Never before has this club expressed vitriol from pillar to post over a under performing manager, and never before has some sections of the fanbase seemingly wanted to get other entities chewed up and spit it in an orchestrated internet campaign of manager and player change.

 

Really? Never?

 

The above is absolute tosh but agree with you on Carra though, and even if (big, massive if) he was behind Roy getting the job then I'm sure he'd be man enough to admit he backed the wrong horse

 

Example to us all is Jamie

[Dracco]

As much as I love Carragher was he ever world class?

 

I've probably said he is in the past solely because he plays for us but the reality is probably different.

 

Got a bit of the Puyol's about him.

 

This.

 

He always was one of the best in the league, his style of play made him very hard to play against but.....It is hard to define word world class. For me it must be a player who is one of the 10 best players in the world in certain position and would walk into any of the top eueropean teams.

 

Based on this approach Jamie was never a world class player in my opinion.

 

But, he is an absolute legend, he gave his all for Liverpool and deseves plenty of respect. But everybody should accept some sort of criticism, especially if it´s constructive and Jamie seems to act like he was the best defender in the world at times. Which he is not and never has been.

 

With his experiences and age, he should be calm and give advices to younger players, especially for the good of the club he loves. Shouting at and bullying younger team mates will never be a long term way of giving experiences and educating your teammates.

 

And the hardest thing will come when he has to accept that he is not best defender at the club. I can not see him cope with it as a fact.

 

Hopefully he´ll deal with it without losing the credit he has. Time is running away...

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

Great post, Ant.

 

There are ALWAYS people who cannot wait to have a go at Carra for anything bad he does (even if he doesn't do something bad). It's alright for someone to have a go if there is a valid reason, but the same people consistently want to bollock him at any possible chance they can.

 

And quite simply they can get to fuck.

 

Hahahahaha

 

"Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape judgment of God? Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?" Romans 2:1-4.

 

After the way you carried on last season you should be the last one handing out advice on having a pop at people.

[Guest ian garro]

Yet more sanctimonious, badly written, bullshit.

 

Will it ever end ?