Fuck off Keane!

[Mr. Beast]

There all at it, Echo today:

 

Mark Walters: I didn't get a fair chance at Liverpool

 

Pbbb!

[MVP]

Fair comment that I think, Keane could have poured on the bile but he hasn't really, he has every right to feel bitter - he was humiliated.

Yes he was. But by himself with his shocking misses and intolerable attitude.

[PaulMcC]

I agree with Section and Tom.

 

I also find it interesting that so many people have judged a player to be 'shite' after so few games. It will be interesting to see if they are consistent with that.

 

No one is consistent in judging players after a few games.

 

There's loads on here who said Dossena was shit after a few games but still haven't said Keane was shit when they were both shit.

[Guest TK-421]

I agree with Section and Tom.

 

I also find it interesting that so many people have judged a player to be 'shite' after so few games. It will be interesting to see if they are consistent with that.

 

I don't think he's a bad player but he played badly for us.

 

Having said that he didn't get a full chance to prove himself. Some of that was down to him and some of it was down to Rafa, is the way I see it.

 

Nobody came out of the Keane affair with their reputation enhanced.

[Moo]

Comparing their attitudes would seem to provide many answers.

 

You probably couldn't have highlighted it better using those three examples:

 

Kuyt gets his head down and gets on with it, he's had the longest spell here despite the fact that I for one don't think he's good enough.

 

Crouch did that during his initial barren spell, but then in Rafa's eyes he became distracted by the England situation, the book and clubbing with his slapper, Sun-whore girlfriend, he fell out of favour and was gone.

 

Keane looked to me as if he thought it was job done when he signed for us, regardless of how he played and regardless of his general demeanour - the one person that he still never seems to have considered may have any meaningful responsibility for his failure here is Robbie Keane. To be honest, I find the refusal to accept any kind of personal responsibility quite pathetic coming from a pro of Robbie's standing with 10+ years of top-flight football behind him.

 

Regardless of his performances, the thing that never sat well with me was his playing to the gallery when he was being taken off, looking round with that look of manufactured astonishment on his face, gurning away as if to say "Look! Look at what the daft cunt's doing now! He's taking me off ! ME! The mighty Robbie Keane!". Perhaps if Robbie had a look at what the daft cunt has won in his career compared to his own meagre haul, he might have realised just how arrogant that made him look.

 

The fact that he chose to return to Spurs rather than trying to understand what he needed to do to impress Rafa (as Michael Owen could have told him it's more than scoring goals, although that would have been a start) speaks volumes about both his attitude and his ambition.

 

For all those people asking why Rafa didn't give Keane more of a chance, I would suggest that in view of the fact he's now back playing for a side managed by a journeyman and sitting in mid-table, the real question should be why didn't Keane give Rafa more of a chance?

 

Dead right.

It was something I seriously disliked about pre-Liverpool Keane, but I was excited when we signed him because of his obvious ability.

I, wrongly, assumed his attitude would improve hoping he'd appreciate the size of the club he moved to and knowing Rafa's much documented style.

How thick must he be to throw away such an opportunity?

The fella appears to lack the heart / strength of character to make his mark at a big club.

[Section_31]

I wonder if some of our fans judge Keane to be shite and think we're well rid purely because Rafa wanted it so? Had he persevered with him in spite of poor form, would those same people have supported him purely because Rafa did? And have poured scorn on all who wanted him dropped?

 

It's the first six months of Crouch's career in reverse as fas as I can tell. Crouch was an embarrassment at times, yet because Rafa clearly rated and supported him - so did many of the fans - fans who have now decided Keane is and always was a waste of a shirt.

[Guest TK-421]

I wonder if some of our fans judge Keane to be shite and think we're well rid purely because Rafa wanted it so? Had he persevered with him in spite of poor form, would those same people have supported him purely because Rafa did? And have poured scorn on all who wanted him dropped?

 

It's the first six months of Crouch's career in revers as fas as I can tell. Crouch was an embarrassment at times, yet because Rafa clearly rated and supported him - so did many of the fans - fans who have now decided Keane is and always was a waste of a shirt.

 

I don't think so, I think most people are capable of assessing the situation and making up their own minds.

 

I don't and never did think Keane was a bad player. I had serious doubts over whether he was the right player for us, and it would never have crossed my mind that we'd sign him last summer, but he's not a bad player. Not in a million years.

[hamstrung]

I wonder if some of our fans judge Keane to be shite and think we're well rid purely because Rafa wanted it so? Had he persevered with him in spite of poor form, would some of our fans have supported him purely because Rafa did?

 

It's the first six months of Crouch's career in revers as fas as I can tell. Crouch was an embarrassment at times, yet because Rafa clearly rated and supported him - so did many of the fans - fans who have now decided Keane is and always was a waste of a shirt.

 

That's just the way forums work isn't it? Not too much in the way of shades of grey.

 

To quote Robert Van Winkel, everything has to be "to the extreme". Its frustrating. The people worth reading tend to be the ones who don't need to resort to that to get their point across.

[Section_31]

I don't think so, I think most people are capable of assessing the situation and making up their own minds.

 

I don't and never did think Keane was a bad player. I had serious doubts over whether he was the right player for us, and it would never have crossed my mind that we'd sign him last summer, but he's not a bad player. Not in a million years.

 

I was never a fan of his signing myself mate, but I just get the feeling that for some people, the fact he was so clearly not rated by Rafa in the end makes it easier for people to paint him as someone who somehow had his chance and blew it, when he never had a decent chance IMO.

 

Many of those judging him now probably gave far more leeway the the likes of Bellamy and Crouch when they weren't doing much more on the pitch then Keane ever pulled off.

 

As I say, I'm not that arsed about Keane, but I don't see how anyone can suggest he got a fair crack and was somehow overawed and deserved to be fucked off, he hardly got a full game - and even when he did - it was always painfully obvious he didn't have a clue what he was supposed to be doing or where he was supposed to be playing.

 

I think some reckon that Rafa doesn't like him = Keane bad. That doesn't wash with me.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Section_31

[ToxtethTerror]

Section ruling hard on this thread and 100% correct.

[Guest TK-421]

I was never a fan of his signing myself mate, but I just get the feeling that for some people, the fact he was so clearly not rated by Rafa in the end makes it easier for people to paint him as someone who somehow had his chance and blew it, when he never had a decent chance IMO.

 

Many of those judging him now probably gave far more leeway the the likes of Bellamy and Crouch when they weren't doing much more on the pitch then Keane ever pulled off.

 

As I say, I'm not that arsed about Keane, but I don't see how anyone can suggest he got a fair crack and was somehow overawed and deserved to be fucked off, he hardly got a full game - and even when he did - it was always painfully obvious he didn't have a clue what he was supposed to be doing or where he was supposed to be playing.

 

I think some reckon that Rafa doesn't like him = Keane bad. That doesn't wash with me.

 

I actually think Rafa still does rate him. He was saying before he sold him that he's a quality player who would demand a high fee if he was to be moved on. I think the fact that he sold him after six months is politics more than anything else. Rafa has said the same sort of things about Alonso who he was also looking to sell, always emphasising that he was a good player who wouldn't be sold on the cheap.

[WhiskeyJar]

Heskey had pace which Kuyt hasn't, and if Kuyt had Heskey's pace etc you would have a top player.....

 

However what neither player has is skill and flair - and you need that in attack and on the wing.. neither are good enough to be 1st choice for a club like ours and they should thank their lucky stars for Houllier and Benitez respectively.

 

Kuyt does not need flair. What you get from Kuyt you cant get from players like Ronaldo or Van Persie. He tracks back a hell of alot and you hardly see counter attacks from the RM side when he is playing.

 

He is a great outlet and defensive mid to have in any side.

 

Heskey might have some skill but he cant do what Kuyt can.

[ToxtethTerror]

Kuyt does not need flair. What you get from Kuyt you cant get from players like Ronaldo or Van Persie. He tracks back a hell of alot and you hardly see counter attacks from the RM side when he is playing.

 

He is a great outlet and defensive mid to have in any side.

 

Heskey might have some skill but he cant do what Kuyt can.

 

The sad part of that is, you will be the first lauding our new right midfielder if Rafa forces Kuyt out... lets be honest, even Kuyts fans will say we need better out wide. We need a player there for his attacking qualities not his defensive ones...

[zigackly]

Section, I disagree.

 

When Crouch started out for us he was getting his head down, playing well apart from his finishing, linking the team together and giving his all. That caused people to get behind him and will him to score, even those who never wanted to sign him. He did enough to get people supporting him. Keane had the wrong attitude from the start and looked out of his depth rather than someone on a run of bad form, and furthermore he made it very obvious he was willing to blame absolutely anything other than himself. That's certainly what pissed me off about him.

 

The fact he evidently couldn't wait to get his agent agitating the market before we'd even hit January just goes to back it up. He couldn't fit in here and it was obvious from quite early on, whereas Crouch turned a lot of people's heads with his attitude.

 

I don't think you're taking that into account and it's skewing your argument.

[Thants]

The sad part of that is, you will be the first lauding our new right midfielder if Rafa forces Kuyt out... lets be honest, even Kuyts fans will say we need better out wide. We need a player there for his attacking qualities not his defensive ones...

 

No, we need a different option every now and again. Possibilities. I'd rather Dirk play in the important games and have a pacy winger to help unlock shite teams that won't get outside their half.

[WhiskeyJar]

The sad part of that is, you will be the first lauding our new right midfielder if Rafa forces Kuyt out... lets be honest, even Kuyts fans will say we need better out wide. We need a player there for his attacking qualities not his defensive ones...

 

We might need a right sided pacey, trikery winger that is world class but I can counter that with what Kuyt has achieved in every game that some of you might call "average".

 

He links up well and has the desire and the determination to close defenders down and force them into errors. He has a great shot and his stamina is like a duracel bunny.

 

He adds to the overall collective of the team. Another important cog in the Rafa crushing machine.

 

Replace him on the right side with a world class player and you dont get half of that. Granted going on attack he lacks pace but thats all.

[WhiskeyJar]

No, we need a different option every now and again. Possibilities. I'd rather Dirk play in the important games and have a pacy winger to help unlock shite teams that won't get outside their half.

 

Agreed.

 

We do need someone that can beat full-backs pace for pace but Kuyt is too valuable to Rafas team.

[Red Nick]

I was never a fan of his signing myself mate, but I just get the feeling that for some people, the fact he was so clearly not rated by Rafa in the end makes it easier for people to paint him as someone who somehow had his chance and blew it, when he never had a decent chance IMO.

 

Many of those judging him now probably gave far more leeway the the likes of Bellamy and Crouch when they weren't doing much more on the pitch then Keane ever pulled off.

 

As I say, I'm not that arsed about Keane, but I don't see how anyone can suggest he got a fair crack and was somehow overawed and deserved to be fucked off, he hardly got a full game - and even when he did - it was always painfully obvious he didn't have a clue what he was supposed to be doing or where he was supposed to be playing.

 

I think some reckon that Rafa doesn't like him = Keane bad. That doesn't wash with me.

 

Im with you on this one.

 

However if Barry had come in as planned maybe Rafa wouldnt have been so anti Keane. Barry was his first choice signing and you can all draw your own conclusions from last close season transfer business

[ToxtethTerror]

Replace him on the right side with a world class player and you dont get half of that. Granted going on attack he lacks pace but thats all.

 

I'd say he lacks pace, guile, trickery, skill, ability to beat a man, and a good first touch - otherwise he is great and works hard obviously.

 

Onwards and upwards though, I look forward to him being replaced in the summer.

[Captain]

I think some reckon that Rafa doesn't like him = Keane bad. That doesn't wash with me.

 

Keane wasn't bad, he just wasn't good enough. There's a difference.

[Guest ShoePiss]

I wonder if some of our fans judge Keane to be shite and think we're well rid purely because Rafa wanted it so? Had he persevered with him in spite of poor form, would those same people have supported him purely because Rafa did? And have poured scorn on all who wanted him dropped?

 

It's the first six months of Crouch's career in reverse as fas as I can tell. Crouch was an embarrassment at times, yet because Rafa clearly rated and supported him - so did many of the fans - fans who have now decided Keane is and always was a waste of a shirt.

 

Maybe, I wasn't one of them though. I fully supported and hoped he'd come good. I think his attitude to being subbed was what made me change my mind about him, I also think he was given a chance and often didn't take it.

 

It seemed (to me) that he was used to being in the first 11 regardless of form. There are a couple of players currently that I don't mind having that attitude but he had everything to prove and didn't.

 

Comparing him to Crouch is interesting, I fully supported him in the same way I did Keane, the difference in the two for me was that Crouch's attitude was completely different so I never gave up on him.

[Thants]

I'd say he lacks pace, guile, trickery, skill, ability to beat a man, and a good first touch - otherwise he is great and works hard obviously.

 

Onwards and upwards though, I look forward to him being replaced in the summer.

 

And other myths. Rafa must be a right thickhead to play him every match, doesnt know naffin.

[WhiskeyJar]

I'd say he lacks pace, guile, trickery, skill, ability to beat a man, and a good first touch - otherwise he is great and works hard obviously.

 

Onwards and upwards though, I look forward to him being replaced in the summer.

 

Difference of opinions I suppose. It was not so long ago that Rafa went on record to state that it was Kuyt that made everything possibe. Kuyt is an attacking Masch and is so valuable to Rafa that I cannot see hm being forced out.

 

We need ADDED options on the right side of midfield, I agree. But you cannot disregard all the good work that Kuyt has done for us.

[Section_31]

Section, I disagree.

 

When Crouch started out for us he was getting his head down, playing well apart from his finishing, linking the team together and giving his all. That caused people to get behind him and will him to score, even those who never wanted to sign him. He did enough to get people supporting him. Keane had the wrong attitude from the start and looked out of his depth rather than someone on a run of bad form, and furthermore he made it very obvious he was willing to blame absolutely anything other than himself. That's certainly what pissed me off about him.

 

The fact he evidently couldn't wait to get his agent agitating the market before we'd even hit January just goes to back it up. He couldn't fit in here and it was obvious from quite early on, whereas Crouch turned a lot of people's heads with his attitude.

 

I don't think you're taking that into account and it's skewing your argument.

 

 

I honestly never felt any of that from Keane, all I picked up (from a fucking great distance admittedly!) was intense frustration.

 

Two factors come into play here: Booth Crouch and Keane came from opposite ends of the footy spectrum. Crouch must have felt like a Romanian orphan in Disney Land when he came here, with no expectations and prepared to do whatever he was told whenever he was told to do it. He'd chase lost causes and would perform with wide-eyed wonder in every game - even if his feet didn't always follow his heart.

 

Keane though, was the wrong side of 25 and had earned a rep as a capable striker in the Premiership, he was a full international captain who'd been bought for £20m (I bet even he was shocked at that)

Yet from word go it was clear that nobody knew where he was going to play or what his role would be, he'd seemingly been bought for no reason other than to make up the numbers at top whack.

 

He gets his head down, tries to fit into the system of playing - pulled off.

Scores a couple of goals, fans rejoice - pulled off.

 

His head must have been wrecked at times. And I'll tell you another thing, I've never seen such open disrespect shown by Rafa toward a player before - except maybe to crouch during the final weeks and months of his career.

 

There's no balance to some of these Keane re-appraisals though, even the thread title - fuck off keane - when all the lad has said is basically 'not sure what happened there but I'm moving on' - is strange.

[theghost]

I wanted Keane because I rated him but it was clear from the off that he wasn't a good for us and he played like shit for almost the entire time was here. As such, I am glad that we're rid of him. It has nowt to do with Rafa, other than the fact that I agreed with his assessment that he didn't fit.