Rafa to finally pen 5 year deal next week?

[sh#t waffle]

Well he has had 5 years and in that time not one good wide player has been signed.

Yeah, and how many have you signed in that time? See, you're just as shit as Benitez.

[Catch22]

What about Spurs then? Why are Everton constantly above them? How can Ipswich finsh 5th one year and get relegated the next?

 

Arsenal won the league with the most attacking team i've ever seen and they're way behind the mancs financially. If everything was so predicatbly down to money we'd always finish 12 points of the top having been beaten by the mancs and Chelsea each year.

 

The main reason we're not up there is cos we've carried on making the same mistakes resulting in us drawing against weak teams at home. I'm not saying we'd be above the mancs but we'd be close. This year more than any recently has had little to do with money.

 

I'm not saying it's not a disadvantage cos it clearly is but people are using it to hide significant failings on Benitez's behalf. If it makes that much difference why did he choose to spend more of what little moneyhe had on defensove midfielders than forwards? Anyone who has watched us will tell you our lack of attacking endevour has cost us this season.

 

 

Everton are not constantly above Spurs though. Spurs were 5th 2 years in a row.

 

Arsenal won the League from the 2nd budget position,just as the Manc's will this year.

 

It is not 1.00 correlation

 

Persoanlly i dont think it is high as 0.92 which Kuper quoted

 

But at the top level you cant jump from our budgetary position to 1st

[Barrington Womble]

We will have finished above them 3 times out of the last 4 at the end of this year.

 

I am not talking them down: They never realistically challenged last year & we never realistically did this year.

 

Both a defensive & an attacking team can't manage it so it's not tactics.

Both a team which spends on fees & 1 that does on wages can't manage it so it's not that.

Both a manager with PL winning experience (3) & a manger with La Liga winning experience (2), when that league was the best in Europe, as we are now, can't manage it.

 

What does that leave?

 

The bloody great big elephant in the room of team budgets which almost totally determines where you finish.

 

We cant win the League with the 4th highest budget with anyone in charge anymore than we could finish 7th even under Tony Adams

 

man, you and that calculator. Arsenal didn't put a great challenge in last year, but it was a rebuilding season, in fact they've been rebuilding slowly for the last couple of years because they've recently lost 2 of the best players in their history (and had fucker of a time with injuries this year), it would be like us losing Gerrard and Torres in the next 2 years. Arsenal were challenging the Mancs quite well when they were at Highbury, yet were miles and miles behind them financially and that was before the mancs were paying out for the glazers to steal their club. If we can't win the league with our current budget we might as well pack it all in, in fact everyone might as well. There is more to football than finances otherwise why would you bother hiring a manager at all?

[Barrington Womble]

We WERE top of the table and challenging a few weeks ago and I remember Rafa's contract dominating the back pages even then.

 

Actually, Rafa's contract started dominating the headlines in November. When did our results start to dip off?

[Guest ShoePiss]

There is nothing I can say if people are happy to read about Rafa's contract situation before every big game we play.

 

Agree with Hamstrung, it is getting a bit boring now.

 

I'm sure the vast majority of fans aren't happy to read about it, I know I'm not. I'd like it to be resolved but I just try to keep an open mind on the whole thing.

 

It's not ideal and can create instability but should a man commit 4-5 years of their life to something they don't agree with just to keep things stable for everyone else?

 

I'm more cynical towards the owners than Benitez here and I think they have tried to guilt trip him into signing something they knew he wasn't going to be happy with.

[Carra_is_legend]

Actually, Rafa's contract started dominating the headlines in November. When did our results start to dip off?

 

Yeah but it is only because we have the 4th highest wage budget and Parry didn't get the players Rafa wanted.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Actually, Rafa's contract started dominating the headlines in November. When did our results start to dip off?

 

So Rafa should have just signed it?

[Catch22]

man, you and that calculator. Arsenal didn't put a great challenge in last year, but it was a rebuilding season, in fact they've been rebuilding slowly for the last couple of years because they've recently lost 2 of the best players in their history (and had fucker of a time with injuries this year), it would be like us losing Gerrard and Torres in the next 2 years. Arsenal were challenging the Mancs quite well when they were at Highbury, yet were miles and miles behind them financially and that was before the mancs were paying out for the glazers to steal their club. If we can't win the league with our current budget we might as well pack it all in, in fact everyone might as well. There is more to football than finances otherwise why would you bother hiring a manager at all?

 

 

Arsenal won their 1st 2 titles from 2nd place financially which is possible.

 

The problem is that players go for the most money.

So every year the top payers pick the 2/3 they want to sign, then the 2nd budget picks their 2/3 & so on & so on

 

We have lost Evra,Vidic,Ronaldo,Rio & Tevez because the Mancs could pay them more.

 

Last summer they picked Berabtov so we were left with Keane.

 

Now the top payer can get it wrong sometimes/be unlucky but 3 teams are not going to get it wrong at the same time which is what we would need to win the League.

 

I hold out 2 hopes for us:

i) Someday somebody might build us a ground & then we could compete financially

ii) Eventually people will realise how predictable it is & a salary cap is introduced.

 

It gives me no pleasure that the League is so predictable on wages but it is the truth.

There is no point in a weather forecaster predicting 35c & sunny tomorrow in Liverpool just becuase people want it to be as it is not going to happen.

[Carra_is_legend]

It's not ideal and can create instability but should a man commit 4-5 years of their life to something they don't agree with just to keep things stable for everyone else?

 

No. But at the same time I wouldn't want the manager to run to the Echo office to give an interview on why he rejected the latest contract.

 

Let me make one thing clear - Rafael Benitez will NOT commit himself if the contract is not favourable to him. Which is fair enough. But, until something happens I just wish him and the players will keep their gob shut.

[Hermes]

I've been meaning to ask you, why is it when we were neck and neck with Chelsea earlier in the season, and when we were top, you were conspicuous by your absence, yet as soon as we dropped off the pace you were back with a vengeance? I'm genuinely curious.

 

Check your facts. I was posting around the time of Rafa's Ferguson rant, when we were several points clear at the top.

 

Statements carry more weight when they are backed up with fact, but don't let that small detail get in the way of your attempt to make a point.

[The 5th Benitel]

Everton are not constantly above Spurs though. Spurs were 5th 2 years in a row.

 

Arsenal won the League from the 2nd budget position,just as the Manc's will this year.

 

It is not 1.00 correlation

 

Persoanlly i dont think it is high as 0.92 which Kuper quoted

 

But at the top level you cant jump from our budgetary position to 1st

 

OK but Everton have been regularily above Spurs with far, far less money.

 

And how about us losing the league to teams with a tiny amount of our budget to spend each year?

 

And what about Ipswich who must have had more money to spend in their second year?

 

It may not be 1.00 but it isn't the be all and end all. There have been seasons where the financial advantage made the crucial difference (Chelsea's 1st title win) but this season wasn't one of them.

 

And Bayern Munich have got double the money of other teams in their division and they recently failed to qualify for the Champions League. How do you explain that?

 

Money plays a massive part, no doubting that, but it isn't the be all and end all and it certainly shouldn't be used as a shield to hide other deficiancies.

[The 5th Benitel]

Arsenal won their 1st 2 titles from 2nd place financially which is possible.

 

The problem is that players go for the most money.

So every year the top payers pick the 2/3 they want to sign, then the 2nd budget picks their 2/3 & so on & so on

 

We have lost Evra,Vidic,Ronaldo,Rio & Tevez because the Mancs could pay them more.

 

Last summer they picked Berabtov so we were left with Keane.

 

Now the top payer can get it wrong sometimes/be unlucky but 3 teams are not going to get it wrong at the same time which is what we would need to win the League.

 

I hold out 2 hopes for us:

i) Someday somebody might build us a ground & then we could compete financially

ii) Eventually people will realise how predictable it is & a salary cap is introduced.

 

It gives me no pleasure that the League is so predictable on wages but it is the truth.

There is no point in a weather forecaster predicting 35c & sunny tomorrow in Liverpool just becuase people want it to be as it is not going to happen.

 

But the games i've watched us drop points in this season were because we wouldn't attack or because we had weak Brazilian midfielders instead of a Spanish player at the peak of his form. Also, untried 19 year ols forwards were getting picked ahead of established Premier League goal scorers. What's money go to do with that.

 

If our team is going out with the attitude of not conceding instead of trying to win games then how would having more money in the bank effect that? I can understand against finacially superiot teams, but Hull?

[Catch22]

OK but Everton have been regularily above Spurs with far, far less money.

 

And how about us losing the league to teams with a tiny amount of our budget to spend each year?

 

And what about Ipswich who must have had more money to spend in their second year?

 

It may not be 1.00 but it isn't the be all and end all. There have been seasons where the financial advantage made the crucial difference (Chelsea's 1st title win) but this season wasn't one of them.

 

And Bayern Munich have got double the money of other teams in their division and they recently failed to qualify for the Champions League. How do you explain that?

 

Money plays a massive part, no doubting that, but it isn't the be all and end all and it certainly shouldn't be used as a shield to hide other deficiancies.

 

 

Yes but the link in the PL is getting stronger & stronger.

 

I think 1/2 in either order & 3/4 in either order are nailed on.

 

It would be a blow to my argument if AV could actually crack the top4 but i seriously doubt they will.

 

We are going to finish 3rd though which was obvious from before a ball was kicked.

[Guest ShoePiss]

No. But at the same time I wouldn't want the manager to run to the Echo office to give an interview on why he rejected the latest contract.

 

Let me make one thing clear - Rafael Benitez will NOT commit himself if the contract is not favourable to him. Which is fair enough. But, until something happens I just wish him and the players will keep their gob shut.

 

Well add the owners to that and I'm in full agreement, for me it's those twats who started all this shite.

 

I'm not in the know on how these things come about but it's possible that he doesn't 'run' to the Echo and they in fact contact him with questions regarding his contract...

[WaltonRed]

So we'll finish third next year as well?

 

Myswell spew it now then eh?

[Best Believe It]

Check your facts. I was posting around the time of Rafa's Ferguson rant, when we were several points clear at the top.

 

Statements carry more weight when they are backed up with fact, but don't let that small detail get in the way of your attempt to make a point.

 

[Ted]

I hope the pen runs out of ink. Or the printer breaks down.

[Barrington Womble]

Everton are not constantly above Spurs though. Spurs were 5th 2 years in a row.

 

Arsenal won the League from the 2nd budget position,just as the Manc's will this year.

 

It is not 1.00 correlation

 

Persoanlly i dont think it is high as 0.92 which Kuper quoted

 

But at the top level you cant jump from our budgetary position to 1st

 

hahaha, so use the stats because it suits you, then when you get pulled on it, there's exceptions to the rule, it's just LFC and Rafa are not allowed to be exceptions. Money plays a part, players play a part, the manager plays a part. Our failings this year come directly from the manager thinking a draw is an great result.

[Roy Hobbs]

Why should they talk about it the day before we are due to play them? Even if it is real? Are they getting the excuses in early if we lose tomorrow? Are they not confident enough to take them on?

 

Even if they want to say something like that they could have said "they have the money but we have the spirit to match them. Just like we did at Anfield early on this season" or something along those lines. This would have conveyed the message as well as raised the spirits of other players and fans.

 

You know what mate? I just wish everyone associated with LFC will keep their fucking gob shut before a big game.

 

So we should invoke a media ban?

[Carra_is_legend]

Well add the owners to that and I'm in full agreement, for me it's those twats who started all this shite.

 

I'm not in the know on how these things come about but it's possible that he doesn't 'run' to the Echo and they in fact contact him with questions regarding his contract...

 

The owners are cunts but Rafa has played a massive part in the headlines about his contract before every big game.

[Ted]

hahaha, so uise the astats because it suits you, then when you get pulled on it, there's exceptions to the rule, it'd just LFC and Rafa are not allowed to be exceptions. Money plays a part, players play a part, the manager plays a part. Our failings this year come directly from the manager thinking a draw is an great result.

 

If you cannot win it's best to not lose.

 

Unless of course you didn't try to win in the first place.

[The 5th Benitel]

Yes but the link in the PL is getting stronger & stronger.

 

I think 1/2 in either order & 3/4 in either order are nailed on.

 

It would be a blow to my argument if AV could actually crack the top4 but i seriously doubt they will.

 

We are going to finish 3rd though which was obvious from before a ball was kicked.

 

 

It wasn't obvious at xmas though, was it? I think you can be fairly certain of the top 4 but that's true in most leagues and probably most sports as well. However, the idea it's nailed on before a ball is kicked just isn't true and cetainly wasn't this year.

 

I've gone to the ground recently expecting to see dull, negative display that will probably end in a draw and that's often what i've got. It's got nothing to do with finance cos often our midfield costs more than their entire squad. The fact is, our tactics and team selections have cost us at least having a shout this season.

[Catch22]

But the games i've watched us drop points in this season were because we wouldn't attack or because we had weak Brazilian midfielders instead of a Spanish player at the peak of his form. Also, untried 19 year ols forwards were getting picked ahead of established Premier League goal scorers. What's money go to do with that.

 

If our team is going out with the attitude of not conceding instead of trying to win games then how would having more money in the bank effect that? I can understand against finacially superiot teams, but Hull?

 

 

The PL is a squad game. Xabi had been involved in the Euros & couldn't play every game

We had to rest him

Now when is debateable but whenever it happened we were bringing in a £6m player whilst the Manc's 4th CM cost £17m

 

We can match them on team not on squad & the 1st team cant play all 38 games anymore.

 

Robbie Keane was manifestly out-of-depth at a CL club which was why at 28 none had ever signed him.

Now Rafa is totally at fault for that & he should shup up pretending he wasnt (although yet again even when is bad he is still better than Jose who spunked £30m on Shevchenko & then blamed someone else)

Now it wasnt his fault that he wasnt good enough but it was his fault trying Hollywood gaols away at Atletico & being petulant & disruptive.

We are better off without him.

 

Finally we are losing the PL to the Mancs not because they are significantly outscoring us but becuase their defense is much better.

That is probably not unconnected with Rio costing more than our 1st choice back 5 put togther but it is cartainly not becuase we are too defensive: if anything, it would be the opposite.

 

The CL is more glamourous than the League, has far more top teams & is the whole of Europe not just a small part but some on here want the PL because it is over a longer period which reduces the chances of luck.

 

But then accept that principle when analysing finance vs position.

Hull were in the top 4 after 10 games. Anyone who thinks they could have kept that up for 38 games needs to meet me next week as I have some magic beans to sell.

[redrosetints]

I dont understand why some people are backtracking on benitez's not having the cash to buy players to mount a title challenge.

 

When he arrived, these same people were saying he'd won the title in Spain by not spending big sums on players ergo, he wouldnt need to spend big in the PL.

 

Now, they are saying he hasnt had the cash to match filth and the chavs spending. Correct me if Im wrong but didnt he have a similar situation in Spain with Real and Barca spending big money on players?

 

Real and barc may not have spent big like the chavs but Im fairly confident Real have been very close to filth's spending and perhaps not that far behind the chavs?

 

We seem to have moved away from the notion a manager who could win la liga without spending big could repeat that in the PL to a position where he must spend the same as filth and the chavs to be able to challenge.

 

Im not convinced by that argument. I think we've spend lots of money but we just cant buy the quality we want and instead, are obsessed by having the quantity.

 

We could have signed ballack if we wanted to because he was a bosman so would only needed to have found his wages. We could have bought vidic but allowed filth to outbid us at the last minute. OK that may not have been benitez's fault but if we were spending the £4m - £5m on some squad players, could have paid more.

 

Its a subjective argument at the end of the day whether we have to spend big on quality or spend big on quantity. Clearly, spending on quantity hasnt worked so maybe we should change and start spending big on quality.

 

Carrying on with the same old same old isnt an option because it doesnt work.

 

Since you only joined in 07, how do yo uknow what anyones expectation was of Rafa. I can equally say that recently people have suddenly said 'Rafa was got in to win us hte prem on a shoestring' yet Ive never, ever seen that before these last few months. Yes, he did well at Valencia, with a lower budget than Madrid or Barcalona, but I didnt know he was supposed to win it for us on nothing.

[Barrington Womble]

So Rafa should have just signed it?

 

no i expect him to shut the fuck up and stop stoking all this up. in two weeks time the media will be all over him again asking if it's signed (because it won't be) and the cycle will start all over again. If he'd said in November I don't wish to talk about my contract, I want to concentrate on football then much of this would have been played out without the media. Instead he spouts his mouth off before every big league game (as I mentioned before I don't remember him wanting to distract anyone prior to the match against his beloved Madrid) and if the press don't ask him about his contract, he briefs them off the record after the press conference.

 

I don't care what eanyone says, specualtion about the manager undermines him and effects the players. His constant "me, me, me, can we talk about me" is effectively sabbotaging our league season.