ALL Academy coaches sacked?

[Maldini]

Seriously, no I don't think we've got any further. Not yet anyway. Maybe we will be when Hamberg and Elias have been in charge of the academy side for a few years. Another numbers game right there.

 

But can you hand on heart say you don't expect us to sign at least another 5-6 reserves players over the summer to go with the 25 or so (haven't counted them) that we already have?

 

The situation with our goalkeepers, for instance, defies belief, really. We are going to have Hansen, Bouzanis, Mihaylov, Gulacsi, Martin and Oldfield competing for two places unless someone is let go. Wouldn't it be better to decide who we believe most in?

 

Well Mihaylov is off to Twente for another two years, I assume after that he'll qualify for a dutch passport and can move here. I think Martin will either b sent on loan or sold and it'll be Martin, Gulacsi and Bouzanis competing for the two spots. Oldfield will probably be released.

 

I don't have a problem with us having a big reserve squad. It has worked this season, send a few of the 19-21 year olds out on loan every season and see what they're made of. I think Rafa is trying to create a similar system to the Spanish clubs.

 

It's tough being a young player. But surely the point is we only need one star to come through for this process to have been a success. If--and obviously it is a huge IF--Pacheco or Bouzanis or Pourie make it through to the first team, then it will have been worth it. Where it all falls down is if Rafa leaves. Any coach will want his own men/players in place...

 

What I don't like is the lack of opportunities given to local lads -- and if they are given, then it is in a no-win situation. I'm a huge believer in Rafa -- but I can't deny that I'd like to see Spearing have a game -- I think he's as good as Plessis -- and Guthrie as well, for that matter. But I'd like them to play in the same situation as Plessis did against Arsenal. With support from experienced players.

 

I think the Academy coaches have done good jobs. The problem is the scouting. And even then, there is hardly a surfeit of Scouse kids making names for themselves in other clubs, so it's hard to see where they have dropped the ball as well. At least it is for me.

 

They don't have to be scouse, they have tow be within a certain travelling distance, that distance stretches to nearly Carlisle in the north and into the midlands to the south. Like I said above, there's no reason we couldn't have signed all Man City's kids.

 

I disagree. What if he decided to leave and take all his people with him tomorrow? All that built up knowledge and experience would be gone.

 

The academy should be run by the club regardless of the managers who come and go. Players should get a broad footballing education and should be able to play different styles and systems anyway. No need for the manager to have a say in that if you ask me.

 

There's a happy medium IMO. There should be a permanent coaching staff, but the manager should have some input, if he doesn't it just detaches the academy from the first team. It's not like Rafa is a stranger to youth football, he produced a generation of footballers at Real. It'd be stupid to waste such a great resource because of bureaucracy.

[ottawa_lfc]

Agree with DT. The academy should be in the club's image, not the managers.

 

What, a squabbling flabby mess, filled with liars and cheats, only out for themselves, trying to rip off the fans and doing what they think people want to see them doing? Or an honest, modest, hard-working, driven, brilliant organization? Fuck me, it's a hard choice!

[Rashid]

Agree with DT. The academy should be in the club's image, not the managers.

 

Like Barcelona I think the whole club including the minor coaches, physios and scouts should be in the clubs image.

[RedKnight]

What, a squabbling flabby mess, filled with liars and cheats, only out for themselves, trying to rip off the fans and doing what they think people want to see them doing? Or an honest, modest, hard-working, driven, brilliant organization? Fuck me, it's a hard choice!

 

Yeah because that's what I meant.

[ottawa_lfc]

They don't have to be scouse, they have tow be within a certain travelling distance, that distance stretches to nearly Carlisle in the north and into the midlands to the south. Like I said above, there's no reason we couldn't have signed all Man City's kids.

 

 

That's a good point, but any kid form Manchester is more likely to want to go to MC than Liverpool... just the same as any kid from Liverpool will want to go to LFC or BSFC than Man City. Maybe Brooking is right, Maybe there just isn't the drive out there for kids to be great. I went to school with Gary Ablett, and he was driven - he lived football. He was the second best player in the school. The best player was a guy called Paul Riley. He ended up running a coaching camp in Long Island (after coaching their team). he wasn't driven. The problem is that the Paul Rileys of this era are lazy twats and the Gary Abletts (Jay Spearing, Danny Guthrie) aren't being given a proper chance.

[Baps]

Know doubt we will Pete,but what happens to the Spearings/Darby's of the team

 

Clearly none of those lads are good enough for the top level, which is why Rafa has had to suppliment the reserves with players from abroad, and even many of those are not up to standard. So changes have to be made and there needs to be a stronger link between Melwood and Kirkby.

 

I don't think Rafa should have full control, but he needs to have a bigger input and a good working relationship with those involved.

[Maldini]

Who chooses what the club's image is though? If it's not Rafa then it's Parry.

[DT]

Who chooses what the club's image is though? If it's not Rafa then it's Parry.

 

I think, if we don't already have it then the club needs to have a long term strategy in place for these things, regardless of manager, academy director, CEO who will all come and go.

 

A "Liverpool Way" if you like.

[RedKnight]

Get your hair cut

 

Never.

[Maldini]

They don't have to be scouse, they have tow be within a certain travelling distance, that distance stretches to nearly Carlisle in the north and into the midlands to the south. Like I said above, there's no reason we couldn't have signed all Man City's kids.

 

 

That's a good point, but any kid form Manchester is more likely to want to go to MC than Liverpool... just the same as any kid from Liverpool will want to go to LFC or BSFC than Man City. Maybe Brooking is right, Maybe there just isn't the drive out there for kids to be great. I went to school with Gary Ablett, and he was driven - he lived football. He was the second best player in the school. The best player was a guy called Paul Riley. He ended up running a coaching camp in Long Island (after coaching their team). he wasn't driven. The problem is that the Paul Rileys of this era are lazy twats and the Gary Abletts (Jay Spearing, Danny Guthrie) aren't being given a proper chance.

 

I think it's our recruitment guys job to convince them to come here. Not all of City's lads are from Manchester either, Richards is from Birmingham, so is Daniel Sturridge.

[ottawa_lfc]

Yeah because that's what I meant.

 

Probably went too far - but I stick by the point I made. What is the image of the club? We know what Rafa's image is - but the club now isn't what the club was in the 70s and 80s. What I want is a youth team in Shanks image - and for my money, Rafa's ideas are closer to that than Parry's, Moores' or anyone else from the club in the past 10 years,

 

You know what theproblem is (well, at least for me). We all believed Houllier. What Houllier said was spot on. And when he became deranged, and when what he said was so very different from what he did, it made it harder for people to put their trust in someone else.

[Crazyhorse7778]

I think Darby could do as good a job as Arbeloa/Finnan given a few games,and I'm convinced Spearing is good enough,he is in my eyes better than Lucas

 

Spearing isn't better than Plessis nevermind Lucas.

[Baps]

I think Darby could do as good a job as Arbeloa/Finnan given a few games,and I'm convinced Spearing is good enough,he is in my eyes better than Lucas

 

No chance, I'm afraid. We need better than just doing a job, and Spearing is only good enough for a decent championship side.

 

I'm all for a team full of local lads but they need to be up standard.

[ottawa_lfc]

I think it's our recruitment guys job to convince them to come here. Not all of City's lads are from Manchester either, Richards is from Birmingham, so is Daniel Sturridge.

 

Probably dead right -- but not the coaches. The coaches at LFC Academy are wel respected (well, at least the senior ones like McAuley, Shannon, Owens et al). Losing them is not a good thing (if indeed they are the ones that have gone.

[Maldini]

I think, if we don't already have it then the club needs to have a long term strategy in place for these things, regardless of manager, academy director, CEO who will all come and go.

 

A "Liverpool Way" if you like.

 

I agree, but who creates the strategy? I can't see a problem with Rafa setting the strategy, it's not like he can take it with him. We had a strategy in place with Heighway which was the Liverpool way, the way things had always been done and now we're a decade behind everyone else in youth terms.

 

You could let Hamberg set the agenda, bring in his own men etc, but what happens if he leaves? I know what the dangers are of letting Rafa near the academy, but it looks like he's gonna be here long term.

 

I think Darby could do as good a job as Arbeloa/Finnan given a few games,and I'm convinced Spearing is good enough,he is in my eyes better than Lucas

 

I'd have Spearing in the first team squad myself, but Darby needs to bulk up a bit and maybe work on his speed a bit too.

[DT]

What I want is a youth team in Shanks image

 

I don't. Give me a reserve/academy side which loses every time but produces talented individuals over a hard-working, well-organised, well-drilled side that wins any day of the week.

 

The first team is a different matter, however.

[Maldini]

Yeah, he looks like he could be first team material in the future, don't think he is yet though.

[WaltonRed]

Seriously, no I don't think we've got any further. Not yet anyway. Maybe we will be when Hamberg and Elias have been in charge of the academy side for a few years. Another numbers game right there.

 

But can you hand on heart say you don't expect us to sign at least another 5-6 reserves players over the summer to go with the 25 or so (haven't counted them) that we already have?

 

The situation with our goalkeepers, for instance, defies belief, really. We are going to have Hansen, Bouzanis, Mihaylov, Gulacsi, Martin and Oldfield competing for two places unless someone is let go. Wouldn't it be better to decide who we believe most in?

 

Mihaylov is off isnt he, and Gulacsi is only a loan isnt it?

 

I do agree though we only need a couple of keepers, 3 max.

 

Is Bouzanis as good as people say?

[RSM]

Is Adam Hammil doing well for Southampton? I know that Anderson has shown a lot of abilty for Swansea, next year he may even get to go on loan to a prem team?

[ottawa_lfc]

I don't. Give me a reserve/academy side which loses every time but produces talented individuals over a hard-working, well-organised, well-drilled side that wins any day of the week.

 

The first team is a different matter, however.

 

So more John Barnes than Kevin Keegan? I'm not disagreeing (or I'd have said more Stan Collymore than KK), but I think that we need that never-say-die ethos to be bred in from the start. It can't be bred in later. If we don't have that, we end up like Southampton. Plenty of brilliant youngsters, but no steel.

[ottawa_lfc]

Out of interest, has anyone got anything bad to say about the academy coaches? Players, other coaches, fans? Or do they slip under the radar? Heighway was the lightning rod while he was there - but personally, I have only heard positives (apart from Gerrard's slag of John Owens in his book).

[Section_31]

You judge an Academy by what it produces, and in the last ten years it's produced - er - one player, fuck knows how much it all costs either. About time things got shaken up.

 

Same goes for the scouting network, 50+ scouts in the Merseyside area and only 7 in the rest of the world I read last year, fucking stupid.

[Rashid]

You judge an Academy by what it produces, and in the last ten years it's produced - er - one player, fuck knows how much it all costs either. About time things got shaken up.

 

Same goes for the scouting network, 50+ scouts in the Merseyside area and only 7 in the rest of the world I read last year, fucking stupid.

 

That's harsh.. we have won a few Youth Cups.. the players don't get a chance and are usually blocked by mediocre foreigners - it's the Torres and Mascherano's I mind, it's the Zenden's and Pelligrino's.

[hamstrung]

Just imagine how good the team would be if our amazing reserves had of got the chance instead of Zenden, Pellegrino etc.

[Section_31]

That's harsh.. we have won a few Youth Cups.. the players don't get a chance and are usually blocked by mediocre foreigners - it's the Torres and Mascherano's I mind, it's the Zenden's and Pelligrino's.

 

How many of the top reserve sides were brought in by Rafa directly though or bought from other clubs and how many were scouted purely by us and developed early doors?

 

If a player is top class he'll get through, promoting squad players from the reserves still gets you squad players. How many players have passed through that academy who could have been the next Fowler, Macca, Owen Carra or Gerrard? In the last ten years?