DUBAI TO MAKE BID

[Brownie]

Brownie it wasn't. They did not make an offer before the end of their exclusivity period. Once that passed, they could not accept the offer from DIC once we were talking to G&H ... effectively we needed to find a good business reason to reject G&H before moving back to DIC ... or DIC up their offer, which they wouldn't. The point remains that if DIC had placed an offer before the end of the exclusivity period, the board would have been required to consider it - the offer was not there. DIC thought they were home and dry and made a massive fuck up. They were then not prepared to accept the realities of business that when something becomes an auction, the price goes up.

 

Well all i'm going off is what DIC said about it. I take your point that the board had to consider the other bid etc, but i'm confused - are you saying that they didn't make a bid at at all?

[EmilHamilton]

It'll be a fucking nightmare if they get the loan. A fucking nightmare.

 

If there's even one shred of humanity and non-business related compassion in Gillett he'll refuse the refinancing.

[Fink]

Does anyone else see Hicks as the bad guy from the Last boy scout?

[redrosetints]

Well all i'm going off is what DIC said about it. I take your point that the board had to consider the other bid etc, but i'm confused - are you saying that they didn't make a bid at at all?

 

I think it revovles around the Due Dilligence and the 'exclusivity' period around that. IIRC, DIC started their due dilligence in the December, that meant that they had a clear run to purchase us, noone else could bid, noone else could jump in, they just needed to check our books and make a concrete offer. Had they done that, in the 'exclusivity' period, no other offer would have been forthcoming and they'd have had us. From memory, the DIC offer was never actually formally put to LFC, it was agreed in principle, but no legal contract for sale made therefore when the 'exclusivity' period ended, LFc were bound by company law to listen to any other offers. G&T came back with a higher offer and DIC left. Which is where Slick and Moores havebeen unfarily criticised. Their choice was ultimately, the yanks or continue the status quo. Of course one thing I've learnt from this whole thing is that this could be spin by Moores and Parry, although legally, I believe this is how it works.

 

However, even if the above is 100% fact, what muddies the waters is the fact that Parry has a history of trying to manufacture bidding wars by passing on key details. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Parry leaked details of ITVs bid for Premier league rights, to Sky, in order to raise the bid. I wonder if Parry did the same this time, leaking detail to G&T in order to get a bit of an auction going, it would certainly explain why G&T took only 3 days for Due dilliegence.

[dave u]

Does anyone else see Hicks as the bad guy from the Last boy scout?

 

Rafa: "Touch me again an I'll kill ya"

[EmilHamilton]

Any news today, Dave, or is it going to all revolve around Keegan and his triumphant return?

[Barrington Womble]

One thing I can’t understand. The yanks bought us for 219M last year. That was too much for DIC, they didn’t want to go above that. Now, all of a sudden, at a time when we’re out of the title race, they’re willing to pay at least 150M for 50%. Why?

 

because last year they had the hump ... they thought they had got us at a bargain price and didn't like the fact they got gazumped. But like a jilted lover, they've got over it and now like the businessmen they are, they see a chance of making money out of us. The price they pay will represent value to them.

[Barrington Womble]

Well all i'm going off is what DIC said about it. I take your point that the board had to consider the other bid etc, but i'm confused - are you saying that they didn't make a bid at at all?

 

Not within the period of exclusivity. By the time G&H tabled their bids, it was the only one on the table.

[Lecter]

Well all i'm going off is what DIC said about it. I take your point that the board had to consider the other bid etc, but i'm confused - are you saying that they didn't make a bid at at all?

 

DIC had a period of exclusivity, during that period (usually called an offer period) they decide whether to make an offer or not

 

That period expired BEFORE DIC tabled a formal bid

 

Because the offer period had expired we could talk to anyone we wanted and Statler & Waldorf duly gazumped them whereupon DIC threw in the towel and walked away

 

Barry is pretty much spot on in what he is saying regarding timeline and blame

[Roy Hobbs]

Rafa: "Touch me again an I'll kill ya"

 

Ha ha. Great scene that. Brucie at his best.

[Josef Svejk]

Any news today, Dave, or is it going to all revolve around Keegan and his triumphant return?

 

Well, there's this shocker from the Daily Mail:

 

Diana 'was still in love with Charles on the day she died'

By REBECCA ENGLISH

Last updated at 01:33am on 18th January 2008

Princess Diana was still in love with Prince Charles when she died, a close friend told her inquest yesterday.

 

Fashion impresario Roberto Devorik said Diana was distraught when she realised she had lost her husband to Camilla Parker Bowles.

 

etc.

[Brownie]

Ah ok, I understand now! I'm crap with all of this kind of thing as I just don't really understand it unless it's explained to me.

 

If that's the case then fair enough. I still don't think we should have fucked about, and it's clear the line of communication wasn't very good with DIC at all.

 

All we needed to do was say that another offer came in and we were looking at it - maybe we did but the impression I get is that we didn't do that.

 

DIC's offer was only discarded because of the price that Gillett and Hicks offered.

[redrosetints]

Ah ok, I understand now! I'm crap with all of this kind of thing as I just don't really understand it unless it's explained to me.

 

If that's the case then fair enough. I still don't think we should have fucked about, and it's clear the line of communication wasn't very good with DIC at all.

 

All we needed to do was say that another offer came in and we were looking at it - maybe we did but the impression I get is that we didn't do that.

 

DIC's offer was only discarded because of the price that Gillett and Hicks offered.

 

Sort of, but it wasn't disgarded as DIC withdrew the offer thay had supposedly made. Its like making an offer on a house, DIC made us an offer, 5k a share, we dealt with them and agreed to exchange contracts but the date to exchange came and went and we'd not exchanged contracts, then Mortimer and Randolph came in , bd 5.5k a share and DIC said, 'let us have it or were withdrawing', Moores didnt, wether due to legal reasons or wanting to up the price and DIC left the table.

 

What's clear is that if the rumours of their interest are true, which they must be, then their 'honour' and hissy fit in walking away is probably going to cost them alot more. Had they stayed calm last year, they could have equalled G&Ts bid and probably still got us, costing them alot less cash.

[Mr T]

Anyone else feel sick?

 

Anything that cretin Hicks touches turns to shit and we've only had just a brief introduction into what an absolute mess he is capable of creating.

[kopitegaz]

Does anyone else see Hicks as the bad guy from the Last boy scout?

 

Is Ansari Bruce Willis? Does that mean when Hicks opens his briefcase full of cash, it will explode?

[billybonzo]

Its the worst feelings i have had towards the club and football in general in all the years i have followed LFC, i dont think football will mean the same to me if G & H get these loans sorted.

[fivetimes]

Its the worst feelings i have had towards the club and football in general in all the years i have followed LFC, i dont think football will mean the same to me if G & H get these loans sorted.

 

That happened to me when we let the bastards have the club. Why oculdnt people see they were full of shit? Especially those drawings of a new ground?

[cochcaer]

And yet they're now coming back in to try and buy into the club, where Parry is still CEO and Moores honorary chairman, for a load more money than they would have had to pay had they just negotiated a bit the first time?

Sounds pretty stupid to me.

 

Me too, in their past dealings they must have experienced scheming rival bidders and how to win the day. In walking away I thought it showed they had no great desire to own the club. If they are interested again, I hope they're more aggressive during any negotiations.

[Barrington Womble]

It sounds, from what's said above, that DIC did have an offer in. Moores sat on it. Outside the exclusivity period, Hicks and Gillett came along and offered more.

 

DIC knew their offer was the only one on the table when they made it. They were waiting for an answer. But - out of character - Parry wasn't answering calls to them. They couldn't reach anyone at the club. This was because the Americans were doing their speed diligence, and Parry and Moores were obviously not going to let on if they could help it, because they wanted DIC as an - ahem - insurance policy. When DIC found out they considered it an insult - I guess - and so withdrew their offer.

 

Their offer had never been passed to shareholders to consider because Moores hadn't decided himself yet.

 

By the time the H&G offer came along the DIC one was no longer on the table.

If both offers had been on the table then it would have been up to Moores as major shareholder which one to accept personally, although there would have been nothing stopping the 40-odd percent remainder of the shareholders from selling to DIC instead.

 

I don't think it works like that, although I thought it was like that till I had it all explained to me when this went through... Moores as the majority shareholder would have needed good reason not to choose the offer from G&H if it had been at £5k and DIC did have an offer at £4.5k per share. He couldn't just say, you're a pair of cunts without much dough so fuck off. He needs to be able to prove he has acted in the interests of all shareholders.

[Brownie]

Sort of, but it wasn't disgarded as DIC withdrew the offer thay had supposedly made. Its like making an offer on a house, DIC made us an offer, 5k a share, we dealt with them and agreed to exchange contracts but the date to exchange came and went and we'd not exchanged contracts, then Mortimer and Randolph came in , bd 5.5k a share and DIC said, 'let us have it or were withdrawing', Moores didnt, wether due to legal reasons or wanting to up the price and DIC left the table.

 

What's clear is that if the rumours of their interest are true, which they must be, then their 'honour' and hissy fit in walking away is probably going to cost them alot more. Had they stayed calm last year, they could have equalled G&Ts bid and probably still got us, costing them alot less cash.

 

Well basically what i'm saying is that Moores head was turned because of the higher price and that led to DIC pulling out.

 

It's obvious to me that the DIC deal was put on the backburner due to the higher price offered for the shares.

[rebel23]

I dont think we can service the debt even if they load half of it on to the club, the stadium costs will also be loaded on, your looking at around 400-500m debt on the clubs balance sheet, it is unsustainable in the long term and these idiots wont be able to invest anything in the team

 

that's the thing, DIC were offering a lower price because they knew they had stadium costs and team investment, Hicks and Gillett didnt care about that and gave Moores his money up front and borrowed the net spend for the summer (that can;'t happen every year) and now will just want to borrow the stadium costs

 

in reality they overpaid for LFC and will spend bugger all on the team or stadium whereas DIC wanted to pay a fair price knowing they would have to invest a bit more further down the line in the team, this is why the yanks initial 220m loan to buy the club is now 270m and will be 350m if they get their way, in a few years it could well get to 500-600m and the debt is just unservicable

 

the interest on these sums is going to be huge and will mean there's hardly anything for team investment as that would have been earmarked as a net spend. you can't keep borrowing your net spend every year and just adding to the debt like G&H did last summer, so in the long term it is unsustainable.

 

we need to get rid of them and fast

[redrosetints]

Well basically what i'm saying is that Moores head was turned because of the higher price and that led to DIC pulling out.

 

It's obvious to me that the DIC deal was put on the backburner due to the higher price offered for the shares.

 

Ok Im being apedant here, but its possible that the head turned phrase isnt correct. I dont know, its possible and perhaps likely, that he was in it or himself but it's also a case that if DIC haven't signed the documents, Moores is obliged by company law to look at the other offer, once the exclusivity period is over and G&T have made a bid. IIRC, LFC HAD to let G&T look at the books. Legally they couldnt stop them, given that we were under a bid. As I understand it, in spite of his 51% shareholding, he couldnt simply dismiss G&T and go with DIC as the minority shareholders could go legal on his ass ! Maybe someone can clarify this.

 

Therefore, rather than his head being turned, it may be that his hands were tied and DIC just walked away.

 

A small point I agree, but in terms of Moores perception perhaps fair to suggest. (Or maybe I'm still just trying to believe, naively, that he didnt really want to fuck us over out of choice!)

[Barrington Womble]

Well basically what i'm saying is that Moores head was turned because of the higher price and that led to DIC pulling out.

 

It's obvious to me that the DIC deal was put on the backburner due to the higher price offered for the shares.

 

I don't think it was even that Brownie. I thin it went pretty much like this:-

 

1. We told Gillett to go away because we didn't believe he could fund his offer.

2. We then entered a period of exclusivity with DIC. If during this period DIC had made an offer, I think (in fact I'm certain) the board would have been obliged to consider it (and in all likliehood would have accepted it).

3. However, no bid was made in this period, but we allowed DIC to continue with thei due dilegence.

4. During this period between the end of the exclusivity period and DIC's offer, GG came back with his mate and said "now I have enough money and I'll offer more than DIC".

5. At this point no matter which way Moores wantewd to go, his hands were tied and he had to allow G&H to complete their "speed" diligence.

 

Now I don't know if we went back to DIC and said offer more money and they said fuck off, or DIC just got wind they were being had off and did one before they we made to look losers - but it is the dithering by DIC during the period of exlusivity (because they felt by then they had beaten off all rivals), that allowed GG the chance to return to the table. If they put the bid in, GG can't return and DM's head can't be turned - or more relevantly I feel, ITV's head can't be turned.

[Barrington Womble]

Ok Im being apedant here, but its possible that the head turned phrase isnt correct. I dont know, its possible and perhaps likely, that he was in it or himself but it's also a case that if DIC haven't signed the documents, Moores is obliged by company law to look at the other offer, once the exclusivity period is over and G&T have made a bid. IIRC, LFC HAD to let G&T look at the books. Legally they couldnt stop them, given that we were under a bid. As I understand it, in spite of his 51% shareholding, he couldnt simply dismiss G&T and go with DIC as the minority shareholders could go legal on his ass ! Maybe someone can clarify this.

Therefore, rather than his head being turned, it may be that his hands were tied and DIC just walked away.

 

A small point I agree, but in terms of Moores perception perhaps fair to suggest. (Or maybe I'm still just trying to believe, naively, that he didnt really want to fuck us over out of choice!)

 

My understanding is this is exactly the case. I also believe the only way DIC could get their bid listened to seriously once they had been outbid was

 

1. G&H didn't meet the criteria for a suitable takeover - ie make commitments regarding the stadium, debt etc

2. DIC match the bid of G&H, which looking at the price it is rumoured they are willing to pay now, would have been value and good business sense. Instead they spat their dummies out.

 

People need to remember this when crying out for them to get us out of this situation.

[Brownie]

I don't think it was even that Brownie. I thin it went pretty much like this:-

 

1. We told Gillett to go away because we didn't believe he could fund his offer.

2. We then entered a period of exclusivity with DIC. If during this period DIC had made an offer, I think (in fact I'm certain) the board would have been obliged to consider it (and in all likliehood would have accepted it).

3. However, no bid was made in this period, but we allowed DIC to continue with thei due dilegence.

4. During this period between the end of the exclusivity period and DIC's offer, GG came back with his mate and said "now I have enough money and I'll offer more than DIC".

5. At this point no matter which way Moores wantewd to go, his hands were tied and he had to allow G&H to complete their "speed" diligence.

 

Now I don't know if we went back to DIC and said offer more money and they said fuck off, or DIC just got wind they were being had off and did one before they we made to look losers - but it is the dithering by DIC during the period of exlusivity (because they felt by then they had beaten off all rivals), that allowed GG the chance to return to the table. If they put the bid in, GG can't return and DM's head can't be turned - or more relevantly I feel, ITV's head can't be turned.

 

So you think it was because of Granada that the Gillett deal was accepted?

 

It's certainly interested thinking - I didn't really get involved that much in the specifics last year because it was all over my head and bores me a bit to be honest.

 

I find it difficult to debate it because it's all based on speculation and presumptions.

 

I suppose the fact is that a higher bid was accepted because the other bid pulled out - whether that was due to them having a hissy fit or whether we'd have taken the higher bid anyway, I don't know.

 

One other fact of it, is that we've been royally shafted IMO.