Rafa's Surrender

[jackofdk]

No, its the rotation is king people who drone on and on about it 'working' when we get a result. It does make a difference and I've consistently said it should be ditched. Rotation IS the cause of the inconsistent results ie win a couple, lose a couple. There's no consistency.

 

So, you telling me Benitez persists with zonal marking even though he knows (by now) that that causes as many problems? That's just as bad.

 

First loss of the league season in early december. Thats pretty consistent, isn't it?

 

And as for zonal marking I suggest you look up how many - read few - goals we've conceded from set pieces the last couple of seasons. You'd find that it works near perfect.

[StevieH]

7dalglish - out of order mate.

 

Rashid - you've been too aggressive on this thread too. Granted, the reaction from one poster is shameful and indefensible, but you've stirred the pot.

 

I don't think Rashid has done anything wrong. Rafa did surrender and is making the same mistakes that he has done so for the past 3 years.

[StevieH]

First loss of the league season in early december. Thats pretty consistent, isn't it?

 

And as for zonal marking I suggest you look up how many - read few - goals we've conceded from set pieces the last couple of seasons. You'd find that it works near perfect.

 

Too many draws though & that is why we are 7 points behind Arsenal.

[05 Milan]

For fucks sake..

 

Taking Gerrard off in the derby did us no harm. He was on a yellow card and the crowd were winding him up and he was a sending off risk. Better to take him off, the player who replaced him should still have been able to do enough to get us into the game.

 

Torres had just got a knock, we have two inportant games coming up. Again its better not to risk him aggravating that injury for the next two ames. And again, the player who replaced him should still have been good enough to get us back into the game.

 

Carragher was replaced at a stage of the game when it really didnt matter, he was a yellow card away from suspension so why leave him on.

 

As for surrendering before the game, 3 strikers were selected for an away game. How the fuck is that surrender. I drove to the game, 420 miles round tripa nd the M6 was closed on the way back. i dont feel I was treated with contempt. It think it was just one of those days when things didnt go right. We hit the post and bar, generally controlled the game, but were undone by an abysmal penalty decision, goalkeeping mistake and breakaway goal.

 

Why Dave let you back on I'll never know, unless its because the the sponsors pay him by the post.

 

Someone give this man a medal

[spider-neil]

Arent all these questions the manager should be able to answer? We dont have a strngest 11? I think that's a disgrace IF the manager doesnt know his strongest 11 by now. Do you really think ferguson, wenger, maureen et al dont know their strongest 11? Please dont give it the Rafa has no strongest. I prefer to look at the track record of the managers who've won the title.

 

Benitez's 2 titles inspain are starting to look a long way off. Perhaps some people are starting to live off that now?

 

I think your comment that we were always going to struggle with 2 slow strikers is very telling! Who bought them, who picked them, who decided to play them that way?

 

Whichever way you look at it, Benitez got it wrong again. That wouldnt bother me if he was showing any signs of learning from the mistakes.

 

Tell you what, the owners wont stand for it.

 

rafa wants a pool of 22 players that he can pick from with no decernable drop in quality, that's what he wants. maybe he ffels there is no point in having a player in the squad if he can't select him where ever when ever.

if rafa doesn't feel voronin (for example) can do a job when selected then he may as well get rid. rafa wants a strong 22 rather than a strong 11.

 

do I agree with this line of reasoning, irrelavent rafa is the manager

[ratcatcher]

First loss of the league season in early december. Thats pretty consistent, isn't it?

 

And as for zonal marking I suggest you look up how many - read few - goals we've conceded from set pieces the last couple of seasons. You'd find that it works near perfect.

 

Its the first league loss. Its certainly better than previous seasons but so what? Isnt the manner more important? We lost to a side we thrashed a few weeks ago. Are you telling me its OK we lost to reading and the manner in which we lost because its the 'first loss of the season'? FFS. And heaven forbid we lose against the mancs that 2 losses in a week.

 

Still happy to crow about the 'first loss in december' then?

[ratcatcher]

rafa wants a pool of 22 players that he can pick from with no decernable drop in quality, that's what he wants. maybe he ffels there is no point in having a player in the squad if he can't select him where ever when ever.

if rafa doesn't feel voronin (for example) can do a job when selected then he may as well get rid. rafa wants a strong 22 rather than a strong 11.

 

do I agree with this line of reasoning, irrelavent rafa is the manager

 

Well he's a long way from the 22 then isnt he? Its just excuse after excuse after excuse now. Its not rotation its not zonal marking its not the strongest 11 its because we havent got the strongest 22! Jesus wept.

 

Look, Im not saying sack Benitez. Im saying he must learn from his mistakes. If he doesnt, the owners will.

[Thants]

He's obviously a tad drunk. I'm condoning his behaviour at all but there's no point in angering somebody who is drunk. Lad, log off and sober up.

 

Yeah so long as he's only racist when he's drunk . .

C'mon Dirk. Drunk or not, I abhor racists.

[StevieH]

Rafa has had over 3 years to learn from his mistakes. Decide on your 16 best players & select the team from that. Simple.

[Dirk]

Yeah so long as he's only racist when he's drunk . .

C'mon Dirk. Drunk or not, I abhor racists.

 

You miss the point. I abhor racists, I've always stood up to them, in fact, you will see that I was the one that originally pulled him for it but, to me, it was obvious he was drunk and steaming in made it worse. He's a dick for being racist but there's no point in shooting from the hip, he's pissed and he's probably more likely to just post more abhorrent shit.

[Alonso]

Yeah so long as he's only racist when he's drunk . .

C'mon Dirk. Drunk or not, I abhor racists.

 

Excatly. Drunk is a lame excuse dave. And how do you know he is drunk.

Racist behaviour should not be allowed.

[jackofdk]

Its the first league loss. Its certainly better than previous seasons but so what? Isnt the manner more important? We lost to a side we thrashed a few weeks ago. Are you telling me its OK we lost to reading and the manner in which we lost because its the 'first loss of the season'? FFS. And heaven forbid we lose against the mancs that 2 losses in a week.

 

Still happy to crow about the 'first loss in december' then?

 

I'm not saying it's ok that we lost to Reading. It's just that I don't think the manner was as bad as some people make it out to be.

 

I was extremely frustrated about it last night but I feel it was just a freak game. Up until going 2-1 down from Gerrards stupid freekick I was entirely convinced that we'd run them over.

 

We made some half chances and then has a collective laspe of concentration that provides them with the killer 3-1 goal.

 

If you add to that the controversial penalty decisions and us hitting the post twice, I think it's fair to say that the it was just one of those games where things didn't go our way.

 

It happens in football that a mediocre team beats a team playing above average, and I think that was the case last night.

[Rashid]

I am not offended by Dalglish but appreciate people sticking up for me, cheers lads. There is no need to ban someone for their "mistake", we should all be bigger than just handing out punishments. It is normal to hit out once in a while but also normal to regret it a few days later so lets see how he comes back. He seems a nice enough guy even if he has been sending this to people on the forum:

 

get to fuck, theres so many pricks on here who wouldn't say boo to a goose. i'm tired of it, rashid is a fucking paki gobshite and i'm banned but so fucking what. what is done is done, the lad should never be a Liverpool fan, yeah i know you'll say the same about me but so fucking what. It's my city and fuck you all

 

Back to the main issue and Rafa's surrender, I thought it deserved a new thread because apart from the tactics, the rotation and team selection blunders he actually SURRENDERED something we in England have never witnessed. It wasn't exactly a reserve game, or a meaningless game it was a game in the very competition that the fans want the most. It was also the competition with the biggest prize money this season and he just gave up in front of millions on TV and thousands in the ground. Has anyone seen such a surrender from a Liverpool team before?

[Steve]

Is this the some sort of new thing on here, people meeting in face to face stand offs at dawn?

 

I didn't mean to call anyone names in the personal sense but do you honestly think that by having 3 strikers on the pitch it means we are attacking? Were we attacking against Arsenal Steve?

 

See, I respect you a lot, but you can't just be coming on here questionning why people aren't banned etc - it's kind of rude when it is unprovoked.

 

Rafa surrendered yesterday, are you saying he didn't?

 

Yes I am saying he didnt surrender, he played a team and made changes that still could have got us something out of the game. Crouch still hit the post in injury time, that is hardly what happens when a team has surrendered. Along with that he had to look at the bigger picture and imagine Gerrard had got wound up by the abuse he got from Reading fans, played with his heart not his head and got sent off and hence miss the United game.

 

The match stats show that Liverpool had 17 shots on goal, 65% of possession and 55% territorial advantage. That looks attacking to me.

 

http://sports.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Football/2007/12/08/Prem-Liverpool-v-Reading-StatsRatings/

[Total Longo]

At the end of the day the point is it is a game we should have won at a canter. We didn't and the buck stops with the manager. He picked the team and applied those tactics. What the fuck is wrong with 4-4-2 i will never know.

[StevieH]

I'm not saying it's ok that we lost to Reading. It's just that I don't think the manner was as bad as some people make it out to be.

 

I was extremely frustrated about it last night but I feel it was just a freak game. Up until going 2-1 down from Gerrards stupid freekick I was entirely convinced that we'd run them over.

 

We made some half chances and then has a collective laspe of concentration that provides them with the killer 3-1 goal.

 

If you add to that the controversial penalty decisions and us hitting the post twice, I think it's fair to say that the it was just one of those games where things didn't go our way.

 

It happens in football that a mediocre team beats a team playing above average, and I think that was the case last night.

 

Last night was avoidable.

 

Select your best players for each game from a pool of 16 and play a balanced team.

[Thants]

You miss the point. I abhor racists, I've always stood up to them, in fact, you will see that I was the one that originally pulled him for it but, to me, it was obvious he was drunk and steaming in made it worse. He's a dick for being racist but there's no point in shooting from the hip, he's pissed and he's probably more likely to just post more abhorrent shit.

 

You're right. It was best to get him off the board. His kind get me so fuckin riled though I couldnt help myself.

[Rashid]

Yes I am saying he didnt surrender, he played a team and made changes that still could have got us something out of the game. Crouch still hit the post in injury time, that is hardly what happens when a team has surrendered. Along with that he had to look at the bigger picture and imagine Gerrard had got wound up by the abuse he got from Reading fans, played with his heart not his head and got sent off and hence miss the United game.

 

The match stats show that Liverpool had 17 shots on goal, 65% of possession and 55% territorial advantage. That looks attacking to me.

 

http://sports.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Football/2007/12/08/Prem-Liverpool-v-Reading-StatsRatings/

 

We had better "stats" because we were chasing the game for most of the time Steve. You don't think he surrendered but I think he did, we can still be mates without the shit that comes with forum arguing. I apologise for my previous "twat" post.

 

We also had better stats because we are a much better team that I felt was handcuffed from the first minute.

 

IMO It was a surrender from a Liverpool manager,thats how thousands of others saw it too.

[hamstrung]

[StevieH]

Putting aside the "surrender" issue for one moment, why don't we focus on the issue of team selection and tactics. Sissoko has been awful this season and should be nowhere near the first team, while Lucas has been a revelation and yet doesn't even make the bench. We bought Babel and Benayoun in the summer to give us more width and creativity, yet neither started yesterday and Kewell was only on the bench as well.

[Steve]

We had better "stats" because we were chasing the game for most of the time Steve. You don't think he surrendered but I think he did, we can still be mates without the shit that comes with forum arguing. I apologise for my previous "twat" post.

 

We also had better stats because we are a much better team that I felt was handcuffed from the first minute.

 

IMO It was a surrender from a Liverpool manager,thats how thousands of others saw it too.

 

Apology accepted, I got up at 6 after getting in at midnight.

 

With respect to having better stats because we were chasing the game, doesnt mean we didnt surrender. Surely if we surrender we would have gone for damage limitation and just made sure we didnt concede any more.

[Dirk]

Excatly. Drunk is a lame excuse dave. And how do you know he is drunk.

Racist behaviour should not be allowed.

 

He's 8 hours behind in Portland, Oregon. He's gone off on one before when he's been pissed, at a similar time of day. I'm not excusing him, I was trying to defuse the situation.

[Rashid]

Apology accepted, I got up at 6 after getting in at midnight.

 

With respect to having better stats because we were chasing the game, doesnt mean we didnt surrender. Surely if we surrender we would have gone for damage limitation and just made sure we didnt concede any more.

 

I genuinely think he stopped thinking about Reading when we went 3-1 up so the team did as they pleased - we could have lost more goals or scored one - Reading shut up shop anyway and were happy with their lot.

 

To me taking off your best players with 20 minutes to go is giving up on the tie, a surrender. And it hurt me, if that was Houllier I would want him hung from the clock on the Kop.

[Alonso]

He's 8 hours behind in Portland, Oregon. He's gone off on one before when he's been pissed, at a similar time of day. I'm not excusing him, I was trying to defuse the situation.

 

Ok dirk I trust your wisdom.

[StevieH]

I genuinely think he stopped thinking about Reading when we went 3-1 up so the team did as they pleased - we could have lost more goals or scored one - Reading shut up shop anyway and were happy with their lot.

 

To me taking off your best players with 20 minutes to go is giving up on the tie, a surrender. And it hurt me, if that was Houllier I would want him hung from the clock on the Kop.

 

Rashid what about the team selection and tactics though?