Instead of DIC....

[Moschops II]

Or if Rafa walks, somebody had called his bluff.There is a pattern emerging here and the words drama and queen come to mind. Rafa, do your business without resorting to vialed threats and stop talking to the press.

 

But it's all right for the owners of the club to keep talking to the press, yeah?

[ratcatcher]

Peter Cormack! What a great and underrated player. Remember watching him score against Citeh one Boxing Day in the 70's!

 

Always ran on his toes! Think he's back at Hibernian now.

[KopOut]

I don't post often but I've just read the whole of this post and it depresses the hell out of me, so here's my slightly jaundiced take on what's going on. I hope to Christ I'm wrong. At the time G & H came in I thought it was Moores being a money grabbing twat fucking us over and I see nothing here to make me change my mind. The fact is that the Dubai consortium get involved in sport to make money, get prestige and to win things, look at their record. G & H are in it to make money, nothing else. The performance of their teams, in Nporth America confirms this, but it doesn't matter that they aren't champions every year because the cash comes in.

I can remember Liverpool before Shankley came it was the same. 40,000 each week to watch them fail to get promotion season after season. The board didn't give a fuck as long as the each week the money rolled in. The ground was a disgrace and my old man used to say they didn't want promotion, it would cost money and cut the profits. Along came the great man, and backed by Littlewoods he started a revolution. In my view we are going back to those days. As long as Liverpool are in the top four every year Anfield, old or new, will be packed every week. The dough will roll in. Why spend the money to take us to the top? What the fuck for? It won't earn us a significant amount extra, gates are guaranteed.

 

Look at the record of the board, never during the period from Shanks arriving to the present day have the board given a flying fuck about the fans...loyal Liverpool fans are a cash cow to those bastards. I'm sure everyone on this forum has a tale about ticketing problems, lack or response to complaints or shit service. I remember John Peel saying in 1981 that the Liverpool board were the most unpleasant and self serving bunch of characters he'd ever met, I don't see the yanks as any different. Why worry what the fans want when there are plenty more to take their place if they get disillusioned. TV money and a growing world wide audience will add to the coffers whether we win the league or not.

 

At the moment we have a manager who can make bricks without straw, and get the team to perform in the cups. When he walks another will take his place and that's when the shit will hit the fan because whoever it is won't be able to match what Rafa has achieved with this bunch of players.

 

well, they (G & H) ARE Republicans ...

I agree with you almost to a line....except the X-factor....

 

This team can win more, and become more consistant, and the core of it, WILL win the Premiership within 2 yrs.

[Jonte]

The difference in price money from 1st to 4th f.ex isn't that much money, and the same as finalist or winner of the CL.

[Maldini]

It is if you do well in the CL the year after. The league winner gets 30/40% of the Tv money and the 4th place team gets 15%

[Peter Cormack]

Not sure the club knew why DIC were prevaricating, but as it dragged on and at the same time Parry had to come out and defend DIC and talk them up (the interview on Radio 5 post-New Year) there was an increasing feeling within the club that it wasn't going well and that another hand higher up above DIC was causing complications and turning against it. Prior to any mention of Gillett returning to the table there was a report from one of the Dubai newspapers that they were getting cold feet as we weren't the cash cow anticipated and as an investment didn't stack up.

 

Thanks for the info.....does this mean they are better businessmen than G & H who paid more than DIC were offering, or is it that G & H saw something that DIC didn't?

[Redexile]

It's worrying to hear all this talk however the question I keep asking myself is why do we have committed winners like SG, Carra, Pepe and Xabi signing long extensions? I am sure that the issue of signings would have been discussed and therefore if this does not happen you could have a very discontented core of players. It would be nice if the club and Raffa could actually just stand up and make a statement to re-assure everybody.

[Red Sun Rising]

Could we show a little more class please?

 

Never anywhere in print is a 50 million "war chest" attributable to G&H - transfer spending will be player specific based on the case that Rafa puts to them, plain & simple.

 

Our prize money & TV money for last year is pretty much on a par with Manure's - the difference is their match day revenue both previous and projected, that's where their 50 mill came from. G&H see this and have taken steps to make the new stadium more profitable from the first day it opens and leave us room to increase revenue as we move forward. That is more important than going out, chucking money at transfers Chavski styli - there is no class to it, and ultimately there is less joy taken from the results. Manure’s business model is the one we should aspire to, growth and spending ensured by the performance on the pitch not at the whim of someone with more money than sense.

 

Some people on here, the manager’s media stooges, possibly Rafa himself are embarrassing the club with their show me the money tantrums.

[CrouchieBoy]

Could we show a little more class please?

 

Never anywhere in print is a 50 million "war chest" attributable to G&H - transfer spending will be player specific based on the case that Rafa puts to them, plain & simple.

 

Our prize money & TV money for last year is pretty much on a par with Manure's - the difference is their match day revenue both previous and projected, that's where their 50 mill came from. G&H see this and have taken steps to make the new stadium more profitable from the first day it opens and leave us room to increase revenue as we move forward. That is more important than going out, chucking money at transfers Chavski styli - there is no class to it, and ultimately there is less joy taken from the results. Manure’s business model is the one we should aspire to, growth and spending ensured by the performance on the pitch not at the whim of someone with more money than sense.

 

Some people on here, the manager’s media stooges, possibly Rafa himself are embarrassing the club with their show me the money tantrums.

 

:whistle: great post RSR, I couldnt have said it better myself. It is certainly true that all of us are looking for immediate results but like you suggest, maybe the plan all along was for things to happen in order. Like it has been said in other threads, the core of our team is more important than Eto'o or Tevez. The long term stability of our club is more important that Eto'o or Tevez. Those players would certainly help, but imo would limit us going forward in an overall sense.

 

I will get in line to criticize the owners if things really do hit the fan, but until that point, they deserve a little slack *runs and hides*. It has been established that there was no set figure for the transfer budget. So what is wrong with that? What is wrong with not wanting to go spend ridiculous money and make sure we make the RIGHT buys? I wont pretend to know what is really going on as only a few people really do.*

 

 

*sorry for the possible rehashing of ideas, just put finger to keyboard

[Paul]

Could we show a little more class please?

 

Never anywhere in print is a 50 million "war chest" attributable to G&H - transfer spending will be player specific based on the case that Rafa puts to them, plain & simple.

 

Our prize money & TV money for last year is pretty much on a par with Manure's - the difference is their match day revenue both previous and projected, that's where their 50 mill came from. G&H see this and have taken steps to make the new stadium more profitable from the first day it opens and leave us room to increase revenue as we move forward. That is more important than going out, chucking money at transfers Chavski styli - there is no class to it, and ultimately there is less joy taken from the results. Manure’s business model is the one we should aspire to, growth and spending ensured by the performance on the pitch not at the whim of someone with more money than sense.

 

Some people on here, the manager’s media stooges, possibly Rafa himself are embarrassing the club with their show me the money tantrums.

 

You obviously can't have been around in the late 70s and 80s when we continually broke the British transfer record/bought at the top end of the market. The most joy I've ever had watching football was when Barnes, Beardsley and Aldo, backed up by top class players in every other position, destroyed everyone in their path on the way to the title. That joy was bought and paid for at great expense. I don't recall anyone saying we lacked class then.

[spider-neil]

well, they (G & H) ARE Republicans ...

I agree with you almost to a line....except the X-factor....

 

This team can win more, and become more consistant, and the core of it, WILL win the Premiership within 2 yrs.

 

you base this statement on what? seriously how did you come to such a conclusion based on the last 3 years (rafa's time in charge).

[spider-neil]

You obviously can't have been around in the late 70s and 80s when we continually broke the British transfer record/bought at the top end of the market. The most joy I've ever had watching football was when Barnes, Beardsley and Aldo, backed up by top class players in every other position, destroyed everyone in their path on the way to the title. That joy was bought and paid for at great expense. I don't recall anyone saying we lacked class then.

 

exactly. liverpool were the best and bought the best to say otherwise is a little revisionist.

[sh#t waffle]

You obviously can't have been around in the late 70s and 80s when we continually broke the British transfer record/bought at the top end of the market. The most joy I've ever had watching football was when Barnes, Beardsley and Aldo, backed up by top class players in every other position, destroyed everyone in their path on the way to the title. That joy was bought and paid for at great expense. I don't recall anyone saying we lacked class then.

 

I totally agree, that side was a joy to watch. But that spending spree was financed almost entirely by the sale of Rush, was it not? I'm not actually sure we did ever continually break transfer records, did we? Not that that is a reason not to spend big now..

Oh, and I certainly agree that we bought the best. They weren't always the biggest names though.

[Eldrich]

Beardsley was our first £1m plus signing 8 years after Trevor Francis moved to Forest.

[wiiksie]

I totally agree, that side was a joy to watch. But that spending spree was financed almost entirely by the sale of Rush, was it not? I'm not actually sure we did ever continually break transfer records, did we? Not that that is a reason not to spend big now..

Good point. I think we broke the record once (for Beardsley) but I'm sure it didn't last long. And isn't the point more to do with the huge amounts spent by Chelsea etc relative to every other club? If every club spent 30m on individual players then it would be a non-discussion.

[Red Sun Rising]

You obviously can't have been around in the late 70s and 80s when we continually broke the British transfer record/bought at the top end of the market. The most joy I've ever had watching football was when Barnes, Beardsley and Aldo, backed up by top class players in every other position, destroyed everyone in their path on the way to the title. That joy was bought and paid for at great expense. I don't recall anyone saying we lacked class then.

 

Actually that was my point, the success produced the revenue that improved the team that increased the revenue that improved the team that produced the success.......That joy was bought and paid from the profits the club generated, not from handouts. Without Shankly that cycle would never have started.

 

As an aside, selling Keegan for a record fee and using that money to buy Kenny is still our classiest piece of transfer business ever (Keegan's black eye at Tommy Smith's testimonial courtesy of Joey Jones at the time was pretty cool too) - in case you need to update your "I was there" roll call.

[Zippy]

Both Chelsea and United have several players who cost a lot more -sometimes double - our record purchase. Anybody who expects Rafa to be able to compete with such well funded and well managed teams (unlike Barca and Real when he beat them) like those two over a long league season without significantly more funding than he has had up to now are dreaming. Rafa is a great manager but he isn't (always) a miracle worker.

[Rushian]

You obviously can't have been around in the late 70s and 80s when we continually broke the British transfer record/bought at the top end of the market. The most joy I've ever had watching football was when Barnes, Beardsley and Aldo, backed up by top class players in every other position, destroyed everyone in their path on the way to the title. That joy was bought and paid for at great expense. I don't recall anyone saying we lacked class then.

 

To follow that model we'd be selling Gerrard first to generate funds, as we did with Keegan in 77 and Rush in 87. There'd be quite a few who'd think it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world either - maybe even Rafa. Much of Arsene Wenger's success can be attributed to selling Anelka, Overmars and Petit for £50 million, and using those funds to take the squad forward.

[Zippy]

To follow that model we'd be selling Gerrard first to generate funds, as we did with Keegan in 77 and Rush in 87. There'd be quite a few who'd think it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world either - maybe even Rafa. Much of Arsene Wenger's success can be attributed to selling Anelka, Overmars and Petit for £50 million, and using those funds to take the squad forward.

 

 

True but those Liverpool teams and the Arsenal team had a much stronger base than we do - (squads full of recent title winners). They just had to replace the quality that was leaving whereas we would have to relace that and then on top of that try and make up the quality gap between our teams and the others. Gerrard would bring in about £30 million which in the current market would only buy you two very good players so IMO that would not be worth even considering.

[Dicko]

To follow that model we'd be selling Gerrard first to generate funds, as we did with Keegan in 77 and Rush in 87. There'd be quite a few who'd think it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world either - maybe even Rafa. Much of Arsene Wenger's success can be attributed to selling Anelka, Overmars and Petit for £50 million, and using those funds to take the squad forward.

 

Exactly we won't win the league without major investment which is what G&T are supposed to provide, so if they won't we have to sell to raise cash and Gerrard is our most saleable asset.

 

In response to RSR's post" if G&T were'nt brought in to invest in the team what were they brought in for? David moores said he could build the new ground or fund team affairs but he couldn't do both. G&T were supposed to be able to do that (they still may). You say they've never said in print we had a £50million warchest well they've done nothing in the media since they arrived to discourage that idea. A lot of LFC fans will feel quite cheated and so may Rafa if he was promised funds.

 

The problem is that they've made us believe that this is the summer we can challenge for the top players.

[Peter Cormack]

It's nonsense to compare now to the eighties. For a start we'd had a ten year unbroken winning streak which ensured we had players queueing up to join us. Bob Paisley had started the process of moving a couple in each year so we always had a top class squad and this continued under Joe Fagan. It changed with the king, towards the end, but the fact is that for ten or twelve years after Shanks we only had to bring in or move on a couple of players per year to maintain a league winning side. Thats what ferguson's been trying to do for the past decade. We ain't in the situation now where we can bring in a couple of players and have a world class side. Read any sensible book about the glory years (I highly recommed the Boot Room Boys) and everyone involved with the club says the same thing - the secret of Liverpool's success was we had the best players.

A few weeks ago someone on here posted and asked how many of Rafa's side would make it into manure or chelski's. I think the answer was three or four tops and probably only Gerrard would play every week. In the eighties ten or more of our side would hav been welcomed ino any side in the first division and played 42 games a season. That's the major reason why we need big investment if we are going to make an immediate challenge for number 19. Rafa's building for the future; fine if he stays, but I repeat what I said last night G & H don't need immediate success, as long as it keeps ticking over the money comes in, and that's what it's all about.

[Paul]

Actually that was my point, the success produced the revenue that improved the team that increased the revenue that improved the team that produced the success.......That joy was bought and paid from the profits the club generated, not from handouts. Without Shankly that cycle would never have started.

 

As an aside, selling Keegan for a record fee and using that money to buy Kenny is still our classiest piece of transfer business ever (Keegan's black eye at Tommy Smith's testimonial courtesy of Joey Jones at the time was pretty cool too) - in case you need to update your "I was there" roll call.

 

Sarcasm to match your high-handed tone in the original post, I see. If you've got a point to make, make it without all the shite about "class", "whingers" and all the other stuff you were directing at people who disagree with you. I'm more than happy to listen to your point of view (and take it on board if it's persuasive enough). Abuse, regardless of whether it's specific or general, just diminishes your point.

[Red Nick]

Dalglish

Lawrenson

Beardsley

Rush (from Juve)

Saunders

Collymore

 

But the best buy of the lot has to be the 352000 paid to Boro in 1978 closely followed by the 100000 paid to Partick in 1977

[Paul]

It's nonsense to compare now to the eighties. For a start we'd had a ten year unbroken winning streak which ensured we had players queueing up to join us. Bob Paisley had started the process of moving a couple in each year so we always had a top class squad and this continued under Joe Fagan. It changed with the king, towards the end, but the fact is that for ten or twelve years after Shanks we only had to bring in or move on a couple of players per year to maintain a league winning side. Thats what ferguson's been trying to do for the past decade. We ain't in the situation now where we can bring in a couple of players and have a world class side. Read any sensible book about the glory years (I highly recommed the Boot Room Boys) and everyone involved with the club says the same thing - the secret of Liverpool's success was we had the best players.

A few weeks ago someone on here posted and asked how many of Rafa's side would make it into manure or chelski's. I think the answer was three or four tops and probably only Gerrard would play every week. In the eighties ten or more of our side would hav been welcomed ino any side in the first division and played 42 games a season. That's the major reason why we need big investment if we are going to make an immediate challenge for number 19. Rafa's building for the future; fine if he stays, but I repeat what I said last night G & H don't need immediate success, as long as it keeps ticking over the money comes in, and that's what it's all about.

 

I'll always compare any era of Liverpool's football with the 80s as it was the pinnacle of our incredible achievemnets. We actually need to measure ourselves against that era more, not less. We are slowly coming accept mediocrity.

[Dicko]

(Keegan's black eye at Tommy Smith's testimonial courtesy of Joey Jones at the time was pretty cool too)

 

Wasn't the Black eye at the European cup Final and wasn't it Jimmy Case who smacked him.