Russia v Ukraine

[TheHowieLama]

Get some fresh fuckin links man.

[Gnasher]

8 minutes ago, TheSire said:

One link over a year old. The others are meaningless. Men die in war shock.

 

You didn't answer my question. Wonder why.

[Section_31]

Ukrainians running out of troops and ammo against massive neighbour you say? Seriously, what's the shocking story there? 

 

[M_B]

https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3518903/biden-administration-announces-additional-security-assistance-for-ukraine/

 

Quote

Biden Administration Announces Additional Security Assistance for Ukraine

Quote

The capabilities in this announcement, which totals up to $600 million, include:

• Equipment to sustain and integrate Ukraine's air defense systems;
• Additional ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS);
• 105mm artillery rounds;
• Electronic warfare and counter-electronic warfare equipment;
• Demolition munitions for obstacle clearing;
• Mine clearing equipment; and
• Support and equipment for training, maintenance, and sustainment activities.

The United States will continue to work with its Allies and partners to provide Ukraine with capabilities to meet its immediate battlefield needs and longer-term security assistance requirements.

 

Nice!

[Gnasher]

57 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Ukrainians running out of troops and ammo against massive neighbour you say? Seriously, what's the shocking story there? 

 

 

Because the weapons become almost  redundant if you haven't got the manpower. How are they going to take back territory? One report says they are losing more men than the Yanks did in the worst months of Vietnam. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/04/10/ukraine-draft-troops-reinforcements-training/

 

Most are not soldiers. 

[TheHowieLama]

[M_B]

47 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Because the weapons become almost  redundant if you haven't got the manpower. How are they going to take back territory? One report says they are losing more men than the Yanks did in the worst months of Vietnam. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/04/10/ukraine-draft-troops-reinforcements-training/

 

Most are not soldiers. 

 

Fact is we don't know the number of losses - it's a state secret.

 

But you're right, Ukraine has a smaller army than Russia. The problem for Russia is it's army is being eroded and it's economy is beginning to creak.

 

So it's Russia's human capital vs Ukraine's financial and industrial backing. We'll see who comes out on top, but I'd say it's imperative for Putin to sway US public opinion against supporting Ukraine - hence Tucker Carlson and other public figures and internet shills.

[Ne Moe Imya]

Gnasher is right about one thing - the Ukrainian losses are going to be MASSIVE when the war is over and the bodycount is released.

 

However, it's very hard to find a Ukrainian who doesn't support the war despite this fact. Mostly because they know they'll all have to watch their grandmothers, aunts, and young nieces suffer outrageous abuse at the hands of the Russian army if they lose, and watch their mayors and council members marched off to torture.

[ZonkoVille77]

9 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 

Because the weapons become almost  redundant if you haven't got the manpower. How are they going to take back territory? One report says they are losing more men than the Yanks did in the worst months of Vietnam. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/04/10/ukraine-draft-troops-reinforcements-training/

 

Most are not soldiers. 

 

Many of their men are in Ireland driving around in Audi Q7's and the like. The rich have fled while the poor get to take the flak. 

 

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

[Section_31]

I don't really get what alternative is being proposed here.

 

Ukraine and Russia are in a slugout and Russia has more cannon fodder due to its sheer size. 

 

Ukraine can't throw the towel in because it'll involve all manner of heinous shit, as the Russians have so capably demonstrated already.

 

The RAF was running out of pilots during the battle of Britain, they were throwing lads up with about eight hours' flight time and they were being killed almost instantly.

 

But what was the alternative, drop your pants so the fuhrer can stick one right up our arse? Fuck that, not on my watch.

[Gnasher]

30 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I don't really get what alternative is being proposed here.

 

Ukraine and Russia are in a slugout and Russia has more cannon fodder due to its sheer size. 

 

Ukraine can't throw the towel in because it'll involve all manner of heinous shit, as the Russians have so capably demonstrated already.

 

The RAF was running out of pilots during the battle of Britain, they were throwing lads up with about eight hours' flight time and they were being killed almost instantly.

 

But what was the alternative, drop your pants so the fuhrer can stick one right up our arse? Fuck that, not on my watch.

 

It's not 'throwing in the towel' the Russian invasion has failed, they've lost shitloads of men and equipment and their army has been proven to be sub standard. The Russians are not going to take Kyiv or western Ukraine in a million years. At the same time Ukraine are not going to take back Crimea. So now could be the time for the diplomats. Obviously these people are more apt at negotiations than you or me but I'd have thought a ceasefire in return for easing sanctions (which we are all suffering from) might be a start. 

 

Ukraine has around 200,000 youngsters about to hit military age. Better they're used to rebuild their country rather than being sent east to their deaths. They could lose a generation.

[TheSire]

14 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

It's not 'throwing in the towel' the Russian invasion has failed, they've lost shitloads of men and equipment and their army has been proven to be sub standard. The Russians are not going to take Kyiv or western Ukraine in a million years. At the same time Ukraine are not going to take back Crimea. So now could be the time for the diplomats. Obviously these people are more apt at negotiations than you or me but I'd have thought a ceasefire in return for easing sanctions (which we are all suffering from) might be a start. 

 

Ukraine has around 200,000 youngsters about to hit military age. Better they're used to rebuild their country rather than being sent east to their deaths. They could lose a generation.

I'd generally agree with this approach but Russia are hell bent on crushing ukraine.

 

We have to remember why they've wanted this war, a ceasefire won't satisfy what Russia want and they'll absolutely try again and they do have form for this based on past events.

 

We're hearing a lot of rhetoric from Russia regarding taking territory further west, they're a massive problem and one of the main reasons they've felt empowered to walk into ukraine is because the west have been too soft towards them, continuing that trend with a ceasefire now will only have a short term benefit which is no use to anyone.

[SasaS]

Mediazona updated their list of Russian casualties, last update they said was incomplete, but together with the new one, shows a considerable decrease in the number of Russian military deaths. Don't see a methodological explanation in this update, so it may indicate that the fighting slowed down in the second part of the summer.

 

Total is now at 31,665 with 967 new names, altogether 1,500 to 1,600 KIA over four weeks, which as about half compared to this year's average. Estimate is this is 40 to 60 percent of actual number.

 

Only Russian as of the moment of posting.

 

https://zona.media/casualties

[Gnasher]

5 hours ago, Section_31 said:

I don't really get what alternative is being proposed here.

 

Ukraine and Russia are in a slugout and Russia has more cannon fodder due to its sheer size. 

 

Ukraine can't throw the towel in because it'll involve all manner of heinous shit, as the Russians have so capably demonstrated already.

 

The RAF was running out of pilots during the battle of Britain, they were throwing lads up with about eight hours' flight time and they were being killed almost instantly.

 

But what was the alternative, drop your pants so the fuhrer can stick one right up our arse? Fuck that, not on my watch.

 

The vast majority of Ukraine is not being bombed. Merseyside alone saw 4,000 dead in the blitz. Second only to London who suffered 40,000 dead because of German bombing raids. Almost every city in Britain was struck. Coventry was raining German bombs. Cardiff suffered 2,000 bombs in the Tiger Bay/Docks area in a single day. 

 

Russian attacks outside the Donbass are scant, they happen but they're rare. You'd be extremely unlucky to die at the hands of Russian attacks if you live in Central/Western Ukraine.

 

The estimated civilian death total for the whole of Ukraine (18,000) is less than were killed in a bombing raids on London by the Germans in one night. 

 

We're losing our sense of perspective. As long as you're not a Ukrainian unfortunate enough to be living or sent to the Donbass you're more likely to be downed by jagerbombs at a pool party than by bombs falling out from the sky. 

[Section_31]

1 hour ago, SasaS said:

Mediazona updated their list of Russian casualties, last update they said was incomplete, but together with the new one, shows a considerable decrease in the number of Russian military deaths. Don't see a methodological explanation in this update, so it may indicate that the fighting slowed down in the second part of the summer.

 

Total is now at 31,665 with 967 new names, altogether 1,500 to 1,600 KIA over four weeks, which as about half compared to this year's average. Estimate is this is 40 to 60 percent of actual number.

 

Only Russian as of the moment of posting.

 

https://zona.media/casualties

 

Maybe they were more willing to drop wagner chaps in the meat grinder than they are their regular lads.

[TheSire]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 

The vast majority of Ukraine is not being bombed. Merseyside alone saw 4,000 dead in the blitz. Second only to London who suffered 40,000 dead because of German bombing raids. Almost every city in Britain was struck. Coventry was raining German bombs. Cardiff suffered 2,000 bombs in the Tiger Bay/Docks area in a single day. 

 

Russian attacks outside the Donbass are scant, they happen but they're rare. You'd be extremely unlucky to die at the hands of Russian attacks if you live in Central/Western Ukraine.

 

The estimated civilian death total for the whole of Ukraine (18,000) is less than were killed in a bombing raids on London by the Germans in one night. 

 

We're losing our sense of perspective. As long as you're not a Ukrainian unfortunate enough to be living or sent to the Donbass you're more likely to be downed by jagerbombs at a pool party than by bombs falling out from the sky. 

Brits during the war weren't being locked in disused buildings and brutally tortured for weeks on end. Is the argument here that the war going on right now is nice and cosy and we shouldn't be arsed?

[Gnasher]

5 minutes ago, TheSire said:

Brits during the war weren't being locked in disused buildings and brutally tortured for weeks on end. Is the argument here that the war going on right now is nice and cosy and we shouldn't be arsed?

 

Re read what was written.

[M_B]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

We're losing our sense of perspective. As long as you're not a Ukrainian unfortunate enough to be living or sent to the Donbass you're more likely to be downed by jagerbombs at a pool party than by bombs falling out from the sky. 

What a load of horseshit.

 

Last year the Russians specifically targeted Ukraine's energy infrastructure in an attempt to freeze the population into submission. Then this year it tried mass raids on Kiev in an attempt to hit the Patriot battery. Now it's hitting Southern Ukraine and the Romanian border in an attempt to stop grain exports. It has targeted restaurants and markets. Not only is the Ukrainian civilian population a target, so it seems are those rely on the grain imports. If it weren't for the patriot batteries and other air defences, Russia would be continuing it's terror raids. 

 

Honestly, you are either Russian or a shill. I just hope you are at least paid for this rubbish. 

[Section_31]

Bonkers that Gnasher is critical of the US supposedly pushing Ukraine into doing shit it doesn't want yet doesn't mind telling said same Ukrainians what pieces of their country they should be happy to live without, and that they're more at risk of food poisoning than they are form enemy shells.

 

There aren't two sides to this story. One invaded another. It's that simple.

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, M_B said:

What a load of horseshit.

 

Last year the Russians specifically targeted Ukraine's energy infrastructure in an attempt to freeze the population into submission. Then this year it tried mass raids on Kiev in an attempt to hit the Patriot battery. Now it's hitting Southern Ukraine and the Romanian border in an attempt to stop grain exports. It has targeted restaurants and markets. Not only is the Ukrainian civilian population a target, so it seems are those rely on the grain imports. If it weren't for the patriot batteries and other air defences, Russia would be continuing it's terror raids. 

 

Honestly, you are either Russian or a shill. I just hope you are at least paid for this rubbish. 

 

 

In one nine month Luftwffe bombing blitz 43,000 British civilians lost their lives. Almost every major city was hit.

 

Ukrainian civilians killed up to June this year 10,000+ The vast majority in the East. 

 

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230606-10-368-the-incomplete-count-of-ukraine-s-civilian-dead

 

 

[Gnasher]

13 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Bonkers that Gnasher is critical of the US supposedly pushing Ukraine into doing shit it doesn't want yet doesn't mind telling said same Ukrainians what pieces of their country they should be happy to live without, and that they're more at risk of food poisoning than they are form enemy shells.

 

Not sure what any of that means or how it's related to me.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

There aren't two sides to this story. One invaded another. It's that simple.

 

Doesn't one country normally invade another during war? And are not nearly all wars ended with either a surrender or a diplomatic solution?  You're going to wait a long time for one of these two to surrender.

[Pete]

16 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Bonkers that Gnasher is critical of the US supposedly pushing Ukraine into doing shit it doesn't want yet doesn't mind telling said same Ukrainians what pieces of their country they should be happy to live without, and that they're more at risk of food poisoning than they are form enemy shells.

 

There aren't two sides to this story. One invaded another. It's that simple.

Yeah.  But reasons. 

[M_B]

23 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

 

In one nine month Luftwffe bombing blitz 43,000 British civilians lost their lives. Almost every major city was hit.

 

Ukrainian civilians killed up to June this year 10,000+ The vast majority in the East. 

 

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230606-10-368-the-incomplete-count-of-ukraine-s-civilian-dead

 

 

 

Why on earth are you comparing it to WW2?

 

Britain didnt have any patriot batteries in WW2 you loon.

 

Part of me thinks you are just having a laugh on this thread. I really hope you are. At least Tucker Carlson is making himself rich from his bullshit.

[Gnasher]

33 minutes ago, M_B said:

 

Why on earth are you comparing it to WW2?

 

Another poster brought up World War 2 and the battle of Britain. Follow the thread. Unlike Britain during the blitz the majority of Ukraine is relatively safe. 

 

 

 

 

33 minutes ago, M_B said:

Britain didnt have any patriot batteries in WW2 you loon.

 

Part of me thinks you are just having a laugh on this thread. I really hope you are. At least Tucker Carlson is making himself rich from his bullshit.

 

Whatever, I'm off to watch the rugby. You crack on.

[TheHowieLama]

Ukrainian law enforcement officers have discovered 80 Russian torture chambers and captivity places within the de-occupied areas.

The relevant statement was made by Ukrainian Internal Affairs Deputy Minister Kateryna Pavlichenko during a meeting with Alice Jill Edwards, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, an Ukrinform correspondent reports, referring to the Ukrainian Internal Affairs Ministry.

“A large part of Ukrainian territories have been occupied. But, in the de-occupied areas, captivity places and torture chambers were discovered, where civilians had been illegally held and tortured. The police have found 80 of such places so far – in the Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia, Kherson, Kyiv and Sumy regions,” Pavlichenko said.