FSG are not shit

[3 Stacks]

Ffs, you had to post an article about the team's recent struggles because you couldn't counter the point I made which was that they have been the most successful franchise in the majors since the turn of the millenium. 

 

I fully conceded that they've strugged recently.There was no need to post some dramatic article from basically a sniveling fan who is so very sad that the incredibly successful ball club he writes about and supports is going through a rough patch. 

 

Also, your point about David Price is cute considering you probably have no idea who he is. His signing has nothing to do with the team "conceding they were wrong about analytics". It comes down to the fact that they need an ace because you can't win anything without a quality number 1 pitcher and baseball contracts are so ridiculously inflated that you can't get one unless you drastically overpay.

 

But again, you wouldn't know that because you don't follow baseball.

[3 Stacks]

Apparently the Red Sox team finished last 3 times from 1930 to 2011 but have managed to do it 3 times in the last 4 years.

 

Oh and guess what they did the year they didn't finish last? That's right, they won the World Series.

[Denny Crane]

I suggest you read the first article I posted where you started acting like a bellend.

 

The supporting evidence highlights a multitude of failures primarily transfer related and acknowledged by Henry due to an overreliance on analytics.

 

This has resulted in an historic failure with 3 out of 4 last place finishes unprecedented. Worse start since 1960.

 

What part have I got wrong?

[3 Stacks]

I suggest you read the first article I posted where you started acting like a bellend.

 

The supporting evidence highlights a multitude of failures primarily transfer related and acknowledged by Henry due to an overreliance on analytics.

 

This has resulted in an historic failure with 3 out of 4 last place finishes unprecedented. Worse starts since 1960.

 

What part have I got wrong?

 

I already answered that point with this: "The reason why Henry stated they would put less emphasis on analytics is because they've recently made some mistakes in free agency because they've overlooked some qualitative factors such as character, and player personality. He never said they would stop using them, just that their model wouldn't exclusively be analytics-based, and there is nothing wrong with that."

 

Your problem is that you don't know shit and act like FSG are failures and that they "can't figure out rounders". Iv'e responded by saying they have been incredibly successful bar this rough patch at the moment. 

 

Not only that but it doesn't seem to matter to you that iv'e already pointed out that part of their struggles are due to the fact they are a young developing team with ageing stars and that they won the World Series as recently as 2013.

 

All you do is post articles, then when I try to explain and debate the points they make, you just repeat the same points over and over by quoting more crap.

 

If you're incapable of actually following up on the points of the articles you post and actually explain why you think these points are correct, than what are you doing this for?

[Denny Crane]

Also, your point about David Price is cute considering you probably have no idea who he is. His signing has nothing to do with the team "conceding they were wrong about analytics". It comes down to the fact that they need an ace because you can't win anything without a quality number 1 pitcher and baseball contracts are so ridiculously inflated that you can't get one unless you drastically overpay. But again, you wouldn't know that because you don't follow baseball.

I have a baseball cap somewhere and once played rounders and with it being an American sport it's pretty easy to follow.

 

It's not exactly brain surgery is it?

 

They increased the wage to Price by 50# to any pitcher they had paid.

 

If Liverpool recruited a player and paid him 50# more than they ever had. Surely that's a change right?

 

The experts in baseball seemed to make a big deal about the recruitment of Price. I guess it doesn't support your view hence you being a bit confused.

 

Can you expand on the earlier point you made about the Red Sox recruiting players lacking character and personality. I'm interested to hear more about this.

[3 Stacks]

I have a baseball cap somewhere and once played rounders and with it being an American sport it's pretty easy to follow.

 

It's not exactly brain surgery is it?

 

They increased the wage to Price by 50# to any pitcher they had paid.

 

If Liverpool recruited a player and paid him 50# more than they ever had. Surely that's a change right?

 

The experts in baseball seemed to make a big deal about the recruitment of Price. I guess it doesn't support your view hence you being a bit confused.

 

Can you expand on the earlier point you made about the Red Sox recruiting players lacking character and personality. I'm interested to hear more about this.

 

As I said, you can't win in baseball without quality starting pitching. Price is one of the best starting pitchers in the majors and pitchers with similar outputs to him have recently gotten mega deals. Clayton Kershaw got 215mill over 6 years, Max Scherzer got 210mill over 6 years, Zack Greinke got 207 mill over 5 years. This is the going rate for top pitchers now. It's no different with football transfers, prices are all inflated now. You wouldn't be mad if FSG forked out the cash to sign a world class player for 50mill now would you? This is basically the equivalent. Teams like the Red sox used to be able to find quality, under-valued starting pitchers for cheap, but the wide-spread use of analytics has made teams much more aware of their potential best assets. Basically, to get the best you now have to overpay. 

 

As for the other part, the Red Sox recently gave a big free agent contract to Hanley Ramirez, who is a good hitter but who had well documented attitude issues and couldn't play defense. They also signed Pablo Sandoval who has weight issues. They didn't properly forecast these potential problems and this is why Henry has said he would pay more attention to qualitative details. Again, this doesn't mean that analytics will go out the window.

[bonesman]

Genuine question here, how have the Red Sox been since NESN became FSG ?

[Denny Crane]

 

3Stacks.

 

No-one has mentioned analytics going out the window just you defending it like a nervous politician.

 

I used overreliance. Not my words Henry's words.

 

There was also mention of old-school scouting being back in favour.

 

I'm not sure if you are aware of this but Liverpool have cut back on their scouts in certain areas.

 

I'm not questioning the going rate but it seems according to the experts they have chosen Price as quality over quantity, would you agree with this?.

 

So it's like us buying Benzenma instead of 3 average ones?

 

So Sandoval and Ramirez were bought being fat and having a shit attitude. Would you compare their recruitment to any players Liverpool have recruited.

[3 Stacks]

No-one has mentioned analytics going out the window just you defending it like a nervous politician.

 

I used overreliance. Not my words Henry's words.

 

There was also mention of old-school scouting being back in favour.

 

I'm not sure if you are aware of this but Liverpool have cut back on their scouts in certain areas.

 

I'm not questioning the going rate but it seems according to the experts they have chosen Price as quality over quantity, would you agree with this?.

 

So Sandoval and Ramirez were bought being fat and having a shit attitude. Would you compare their recruitment to any players Liverpool have recruited.

 

Look, im not sure what else you need to hear. You've already mentioned you know next to nothing about baseball, but then you mention that it's easy to follow and have played it before. Which one is it?

 

I literally said in the post above that there was an over-reliance on analytics and that they would also start using other methods. Why are you mentionning this like I haven't already discussed this point? Also, you sound like a retard with the "defending analytics" line. As if the use of analytics need defending. It's used in every big business and it's been proven to help decision-makers in a big way.

 

Again, if you think FSG run their baseball team the same way they run Liverpool, you're clueless. I'm not sure what cutting the amount of scouts at Liverpool has to do with this conversation.

 

Your quantity over quality line is nonsense and the difference between the Red Sox being able to attract a big name like David Price and Liverpool being able to pay big money for "quality over quantity" is that the Red Sox have actually won things and are a successful organization. If you wanna blame anyone for not being able to attract quality to Liverpool, blame Brendan Rodgers, not FSG.

 

Also, no I don't see parallels between paying a measly 16mill for Mario Balotelli- who had previously been sold for 25mill, who was an Italian international and who will probably be sold to China for about that amount- and signing fat and stupid baseball players, who by the way, had been all-stars in the past.

 

Again, if you want to blame anyone for poor transfers, blame Brendan Rodgers who spent a combined 77mill on Dejan Lovren, Christian Benteke and Adam Lallana.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Who is Ana Lytics and does she do anal

[TheHowieLama]

It's not exactly brain surgery is it?

 

 

Easily the most anallytic sport around. 

 

Unless you are into curling, which is of course, physics

[Denny Crane]

Look, im not sure what else you need to hear. You've already mentioned you know next to nothing about baseball, but then you mention that it's easy to follow and have played it before. Which one is it? I literally said in the post above that there was an over-reliance on analytics and that they would also start using other methods. Why are you mentionning this like I haven't already discussed this point? Also, you sound like a retard with the "defending analytics" line. As if the use of analytics need defending. It's used in every big business and it's been proven to help decision-makers in a big way. Again, if you think FSG run their baseball team the same way they run Liverpool, you're clueless. I'm not sure what cutting the amount of scouts at Liverpool has to do with this conversation. Your quantity over quality line is nonsense and the difference between the Red Sox being able to attract a big name like David Price and Liverpool being able to pay big money for "quality over quantity" is that the Red Sox have actually won things and are a successful organization. If you wanna blame anyone for not being able to attract quality to Liverpool, blame Brendan Rodgers, not FSG. Also, no I don't see parallels between paying a measly 16mill for Mario Balotelli- who had previously been sold for 25mill, who was an Italian international and who will probably be sold to China for about that amount- and signing fat and stupid baseball players, who by the way, had been all-stars in the past. Again, if you want to blame anyone for poor transfers, blame Brendan Rodgers who spent a combined 77mill on Dejan Lovren, Christian Benteke and Adam Lallana.

You seem very defensive and resolute in absolving Fsg of any blame.

 

For the record I doubt there have been many people on here more vehemently opposed to Rodgers and his tried and tested methods than myself. I'm sure a few on here could vouch for me on that. Rodgers doesn’t work in isolation though does he?.

 

Measly 16million okay...

 

It's not just profit and loss on a player you buy and sell. If you can't understand that well...

 

You keep attributing statements to me that I have not made. At what stage have I stated they are run the same?.

 

You have this habit of defending or criticising a point I haven't made whilst attributing it to me.

 

Liverpool are not exactly Tranmere but I accept there is probably less competition for rounders players globally. That could alter the demand.

 

My quality over quantity point is valid they increased the wage they paid to Price by a huge amount. Although if you are saying Rodgers couldn’t attract quality players who the fuck appointed him? Who let him carry on spending regardless.

 

For the record Im more in favour of stats in football than most on here but don't let that stop you making assumptions.

[TheHowieLama]

For the record Im more in favour of stats in football than most on here 

 

 

popcorn

[3 Stacks]

You seem very defensive and resolute in absolving Fsg of any blame.

 

For the record I doubt there have been many people on here more vehemently opposed to Rodgers and his tried and tested methods than myself. I'm sure a few on here could vouch for me on that. Rodgers doesn’t work in isolation though does he?.

 

Measly 16million okay...

 

It's not just profit and loss on a player you buy and sell. If you can't understand that well...

 

You keep attributing statements to me that I have not made. At what stage have I stated they are run the same?.

 

You have this habit of defending or criticising a point I haven't made whilst attributing it to me.

 

Liverpool are not exactly Tranmere but I accept there is probably less competition for rounders players globally. That could alter the demand.

 

My quality over quantity point is valid they increased the wage they paid to Price by a huge amount. Although if you are saying Rodgers couldn’t attract quality players who the fuck appointed him? Who let him carry on spending regardless.

 

For the record Im more in favour of stats in football than most on here but don't let that stop you making assumptions.

 

FSG definitely deserve some blame, both in the running of the Red sox and Liverpool. My problem with you is that you said they "couldn't figure out rounders so how are they going to turn us around?". 

 

So in that statement you're saying they can't effectively run a baseball team, which I have disproved with facts. Then, your statement implies that football and baseball are similar because you are essentially saying: "if they can't run a baseball team, how will they run a football team?" You just talk complete crap and you have compared football and baseball. All you're doing is back-tracking.

 

The appointment of Rodgers was fine. Look at Pochettino, a pretty inexperienced and young coach. Daniel Levy has put trust in him and everything is going well at Spurs. Rodgers almost won the league. It turns out he's a bit of an idiot, but his appointment was perfectly fine in my book. That he didn't have the balls or the talent to persuade good players to join is on him, not the owners.

 

Also, please address my first point. Do you know nothing about baseball like you first mentionned, or do you follow it regularly like you said after?

[Denny Crane]

FSG definitely deserve some blame, both in the running of the Red sox and Liverpool. My problem with you is that you said they "couldn't figure out rounders so how are they going to turn us around?". So in that statement you're saying they can't effectively run a baseball team, which I have disproved with facts. Then, your statement implies that football and baseball are similar because you are essentially saying: "if they can't run a baseball team, how will they run a football team?" You just talk complete crap and you have compared football and baseball. All you're doing is back-tracking. The appointment of Rodgers was fine. Look at Pochettino, a pretty inexperienced and young coach. Daniel Levy has put trust in him and everything is going well at Spurs. Rodgers almost won the league. It turns out he's a bit of an idiot, but his appointment was perfectly fine in my book. That he didn't have the balls or the talent to persuade good players to join is on him, not the owners. Also, please address my first point. Do you know nothing about baseball like you first mentionned, or do you follow it regularly like you said after?

Transfers in football or baseball or many other team sports go along way to determine success or failure. You have admitted that trades Fsg have been involved in have been part of the reason why they have failed or you don't think they have failed because they have been successful in the past.

 

The various commentators seem to confirm it's their transfer dealings why they have finished last on several occasions. Henry himself admitted an overreliance. I would expect that as this is their specific area of expertise for them to perform better than they do in football consistently. Not because they are related but they are more involved more hands on. The rounders tag was flippant but that's more my antiAmerican stance...

 

Fsg have acquired a reputation for being smarter than others but I think it's bullshit. They maybe in their business setup but a fair few who follow these things think it's bullshit as well. I just think they know how to play the media. I think that's where we disagree. I also dislike the way the club under their reign have used the media to turn on players but that's another topic.

 

Compared to my vast knowledge of football my knowledge of baseball is very limited. I never said I follow it regular. I worked as a researcher in the past and due to that I had to do various stuff and occasionally I drew the short straw to cover that sport.

 

Pochettino was much much more experienced than Rodgers before he went to Spurs but we are going off topic.

[3 Stacks]

Transfers in football or baseball or many other team sports go along way to determine success or failure. You have admitted that trades Fsg have been involved in have been part of the reason why they have failed or you don't think they have failed because they have been successful in the past.

 

The various commentators seem to confirm it's their transfer dealings why they have finished last on several occasions. Henry himself admitted an overreliance. I would expect that as this is their specific area of expertise for them to perform better than they do in football consistently. Not because they are related but they are more involved more hands on. The rounders tag was flippant but that's more my antiAmerican stance...

 

Fsg have acquired a reputation for being smarter than others but I think it's bullshit. They maybe in their business setup but a fair few who follow these things think it's bullshit as well. I just think they know how to play the media. I think that's where we disagree. I also dislike the way the club under their reign have used the media to turn on players but that's another topic.

 

Compared to my vast knowledge of football my knowledge of baseball is very limited. I never said I follow it regular. I worked as a researcher in the past and due to that I had to do various stuff and occasionally I drew the short straw to cover that sport.

 

Pochettino was much much more experienced than Rodgers before he went to Spurs but we are going off topic.

 

Look, after this i'm done with this conversation because you can't even address my points anymore. You said FSG are failing in running the Red Sox then you compared how they run them to how they run Liverpool. I've explained to you why this is all a load of crap but you continue to churn out the same tired points without addressing any of mine.

 

So for the last time, yes they've recently made mistakes in free agency and as a result, they've decided to now rely less on analytics. Guess what though, like I've already said many times, they have spear-headed the most SUCCESSFUL baseball franchise of the past two decades. The good they have done for the Red Sox far surpasses the mistakes they have recently made. This is what I've been trying to explain to you whilst also giving you ulterior reasons for some of their struggles, but obviously since you know nothing about baseball, you can't debate my points and just spew the same stuff over and over.

 

But fine, if you want to keep droning on and on about their failures of the past 4 years, (a period in which they've won a World Series) and ignore the fact that on the whole they have been phenomenal as owners of the Red Sox, then i'll leave you to it.

 

And hey, i'm sure FSG appreciate this notion that some think they are smarter than everybody else, because John Henry has certainly never said that himself.

 

Also, if this conversation is anything to go by, I really doubt you have a "vast knowledge of football". 

 

Anyways, It's good that you acknowledge you know nothing about baseball, because that is absolutely correct.

[Denny Crane]

I try and be civil and this is the response kinell.

[3 Stacks]

You made a shite blanket statement, I called you up on it and explained to you why you were wrong. You then proceeded to fucking bore me to death and waste my time by talking the same crap over and over.

[magicrat]

Easily the most anallytic sport around. 

 

Unless you are into curling, which is of course bollocks

 

Fixed

[Coro]

This team relects FSG's ownership to a tee -

 

Bang average

[VladimirIlyich]

This team relects FSG's ownership to a tee -

 

Bang average

The Mean,Mode or Median?

Certainly not mean.

[Denny Crane]

You made a shite blanket statement, I called you up on it and explained to you why you were wrong. You then proceeded to fucking bore me to death and waste my time by talking the same crap over and over.

I thought I would converse with you to see if I my first impression was wrong and you weren't a yank apologist. Whoose sole aim was to defend Fsg at all costs.

 

It's fair to say my first impression was right. I also found your thought processes quite unusual. Maybe there is a cultural difference in how you see sport. Maybe it shapes your view, the Glazers have been very successful owning Manchester United but it doesn't mean they have not been incompetent over the last few years. I think your Balotelli comment sums you up. Well if we sell him to China and it was a measly 16millions.

 

I guess in baseball when you are shit for a while there is no real negative impact in the short-term. In football there are unintended consequences when you have incompetent owners who may or may not mean well.

[xerxes]

The appointment of Rodgers was fine. Look at Pochettino, a pretty inexperienced and young coach.

I agree with you that at the time, taking a punt was a tenable option, albeit a high risk one.

 

I disagree that there is any similarity between the appointment of Pochettino at Spurs ( or Southampton) and the appointment of Rodgers here.

 

As a player Pochettino was a league title winner in Argentina, a cup winner in Spain, and played in three different countries, as well as being an international. Rodgers had a brief, undistinguished playing career in Northern Ireland and non-league winning nothing.

 

Rodgers came to us with three years managerial experience at Reading, Watford and Swansea, with a play off final victory to his name coaching a side which he had inherited. Pochettino had three years top flight managerial experience with Espanyol when he went to Saints, four years when he arrived at Spurs. Rodgers had one year’s top flight managerial experience under his belt.

 

In future years fans will look at the appointment of Rodgers and ask one question “Why?”

[Russ Atmosphere]

Unlike Pochettino who is still in profit four windows on, we gave Rodgers the funds to build a completely new team.

[Tony Moanero]

People still going on about Brendan Rodgers?