Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Numero Veinticinco]

Well, this is some creative logic. It's a bit like saying 'the police are bad because they're racist against black people' and offering the solution of 'be racist towards everybody' instead of 'don't be racist'. The freedom of movement isn't based on race, it's based on nationality of a people in a common area regardless of their racial, ethnic, religious, cultural, or economic background. It's true that it's harder for people outside of that area to get in, but the solution to leave the EU so nobody has that access is... interesting. 

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

Well, this is some creative logic. It's a bit like saying 'the police are bad because they're racist against black people' and offering the solution of 'be racist towards everybody' instead of 'don't be racist'. The freedom of movement isn't based on race, it's based on nationality of a people in a common area regardless of their racial, ethnic, religious, cultural, or economic background. It's true that it's harder for people outside of that area to get in, but the solution to leave the EU so nobody has that access is... interesting. 

Well it's not as you put it so "nobody has access" that's an exaggeration although a lot will depend on the government of the day. Only a fool would disregard the economic benefits immigrants bring to the country and I know the present government are proving to be a calamity but I doubt they'd be stupid enough to cut their nose to spite their face.

 

The point is certain people are at a disadvantage when trying to work in the uk even though that person may be more qualified than a European competitor.

[Gnasher]

22 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

British citizens in the UK have more rights - to work, to claim benefits, etc. - than visitors from overseas.

 

Is that inherently racist?

I don't know if its Racist but I do know it's wrong. If you are here you should be treated the same as the person next door, simple as that.

[Gnasher]

31 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Yes, because we have a free trade agreement with them, membership of the EU. If I wanted to buy a widget from Nigeria it wouldn’t be as cheap as the one from Hungary.  
 

You mentioned colour because you’re a massive racist.  

I dont really listen to opinions on who is racist or not racist by a person who votes for a political party that contains Norman Tebbit.

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Well it's not as you put it so "nobody has access" that's an exaggeration although a lot will depend on the government of the day. Only a fool would disregard the economic benefits immigrants bring to the country and I know the present government are proving to be a calamity but I doubt they'd be stupid enough to cut their nose to spite their face.

 

The point is certain people are at a disadvantage when trying to work in the uk even though that person may be more qualified than a European competitor.

Yes, that's the point. Falling back on everybody being disadvantaged isn't the solution to that issue. The solution to inequality between rich and poor isn't to make everybody poor, it's to improve the living standards of the poor. It's the same with this. I certainly don't trust the Tories with our borders or a fair immigration policy. 

[Gnasher]

Just now, Nummer Neunzehn said:

Yes, that's the point. Falling back on everybody being disadvantaged isn't the solution to that issue. The solution to inequality between rich and poor isn't to make everybody poor, it's to improve the living standards of the poor. It's the same with this. I certainly don't trust the Tories with our borders or a fair immigration policy. 

But has it improved the living standards of the poor? Really? 

 

Ie people in further fields are suffering unspeakable hardships and the poor in Europe have not fared much better. If the proof is in the pudding then the pudding tastes rancid.

[Rico1304]

7 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I dont really listen to opinions on who is racist or not racist by a person who votes for a political party that contains Norman Tebbit.

I voted for Libs last time.  I’m a centrist Harry. 

[Rico1304]

13 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Well it's not as you put it so "nobody has access" that's an exaggeration although a lot will depend on the government of the day. Only a fool would disregard the economic benefits immigrants bring to the country and I know the present government are proving to be a calamity but I doubt they'd be stupid enough to cut their nose to spite their face.

 

The point is certain people are at a disadvantage when trying to work in the uk even though that person may be more qualified than a European competitor.

Do immigrants bring as much economic benefit as a free trade agreement with our nearest neighbours? 

[Gnasher]

Before we clap each other on the back

 

https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/More-than-100-million-people-in-the-EU-are-poor

[Bruce Spanner]

12 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Before we clap each other on the back

 

https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/More-than-100-million-people-in-the-EU-are-poor

And 3.4b live in poverty outside it, hurrah!

 

You can’t just pick a random stat and attach a subjective meaning to it, you need a point.

[Rico1304]

11 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Before we clap each other on the back

 

https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/More-than-100-million-people-in-the-EU-are-poor

Much better off on our own!  

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

And 3.4b live in poverty outside it, hurrah!

 

You can’t just pick a random stat and attach a subjective meaning to it, you need a point.

Eh i mentioned poor people further afield in the posts above, it's not a competition. I thought the point was clear, Europe despite its wealth has neglected its poor.

[Rico1304]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Eh i mentioned poor people further afield in the posts above, it's not a competition. I thought the point was clear, Europe despite its wealth has neglected its poor.

You didn’t read it.  

[Gnasher]

25 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

I voted for Libs last time.  I’m a centrist Harry. 

Tory/Libs, Johnson/Swinson Cameron/Clegg all the same shit.

[Bruce Spanner]

13 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Eh imentioned poor people further afield in the posts above, it's not a competition. I thought the point was clear, Europe despite its wealth has neglected its poor.

Or, collectively become one of the most important trading blocks on the planet allowing its members unrivalled access to goods and services from their co-members, and prices from other blocks they couldn’t have gained individually, which has helped to raise the standard of living for millions of people. 
 

You know, tomato/tomato.

 

Allowing people the rights to travel to seek prosperity and have their employment rights protected, for their families to access education and health care in any of 27 nations, for a collective endeavour that’s pretty special considering the world that birthed it. This isn’t even mentioning the collective scientific, legal and humanitarian work that also happens.

 

How are you on Economics, Gnash, you get the distinction between relative and absolute poverty, right? 

[Bjornebye]

36 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

I voted for Libs last time.  I’m a centrist Harry. 

The fuck you got against red squirrels? 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

49 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Only a fool would disregard the economic benefits immigrants bring to the country and I know the present government

Amen!

 

Immigrants make the UK economy richer, but it's the UK Government who decide not to distribute that increased income equitably.

[Rico1304]

Sounds familiar. 
 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Amen!

 

Immigrants make the UK economy richer, but it's the UK Government who decide not to distribute that increased income equitably.

Well, at least we have a government full of compassion and heart to do our bidding. 

 

Now, let's sink a fucking dinghy.  

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

The fuck you got against red squirrels? 

He's sick of being stuck in traffic behind them.

 

 

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Or, collectively become one of the most important trading blocks on the planet allowing its members unrivalled access to goods and services from their co-members, and prices from other blocks they couldn’t have gained individually, which has helped to raise the standard of living for millions of people. 
 

You know, tomato/tomato.

Not many tomatoes/tomatoes if you are one of the unfortunates left behind in this wonderful utopia you describe. It reminds me a little of Orwell in his book Down and out in London and Paris where he describes being penniless and gazing through the glass as the great and the good by beautiful french food.

3 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Allowing people the rights to travel to seek prosperity and have their employment rights protected, for their families to access education and health care in any of 27 nations, for a collective endeavour that’s pretty special considering the world that birthed it.

Or allowing a plane full of Romanians to be flown across the world in a pandemic to pick asparagus for diddly squat to increase the profits of wealthy landowners.

3 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

How are you on Economics, Gnash, you get the distinction between relative and absolute poverty, right? 

 

Yes thanks and your point I guess is '  nah nothing to see here its only relative poverty, ain't that bad.

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Amen!

 

Immigrants make the UK economy richer, but it's the UK Government who decide not to distribute that increased income equitably.

I think that's a little simplistic angry. 

[Bruce Spanner]

15 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Not many tomatoes/tomatoes if you are one of the unfortunates left behind in this wonderful utopia you describe. It reminds me a little of Orwell in his book Down and out in London and Paris where he describes being penniless and gazing through the glass as the great and the good by beautiful french food.

Or allowing a plane full of Romanians to be flown across the world in a pandemic to pick asparagus for diddly squat to increase the profits of wealthy landowners.

 

Yes thanks and your point I guess is '  nah nothing to see here its only relative poverty, ain't that bad.

Mad.

 

We’ll never find common ground, so this is pointless, especially as the ‘evidence’ you provide tends, to anybody with a degree of comprehension skill, to disprove the argument you’re putting forward. 

 

I eagerly await the utopia post December that you’re clinging to which frees us from the shackles of tyranny, looks like it’ll be swell.

[Gnasher]

8 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Mad.

 

We’ll never find common ground, so this is pointless.

 

I eagerly await the utopia post December that you’re clinging to which frees us from the shackles of tyranny, looks like it’ll be swell.

I never described it as such, you were the one waxing lyrical about the beauty of the European model, I've not predicted or described the British alternative in such glowing terms.

 

I prefer to focus on the people at the bottom of the pile rather than cheer the ones at the top, I'm more of a glass half empty person,  maybe you think I've got it upside down but then you are in Australia.

[Bruce Spanner]

13 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I never described it as such, you were the one waxing lyrical about the beauty of the European model, I've not predicted or described the British alternative in such glowing terms.

 

I prefer to focus on the people at the bottom of the pile rather than cheer the ones at the top, I'm more of a glass half empty person,  maybe you think I've got it upside down but then you are in Australia.

You provided evidence that showed that living standards were improving, not as fast as hoped, but improving. If you had provided evidence that showed people were being plunged in to poverty and destitution, or even that living standards were being eroded, as a deliberate result of EU policy then you would have proven your point, but again, you don’t read, or understand, the arguments and disprove your own argument.

 

Its the pub bore paradox, he stands in the corner telling it ‘how it is’ without anybody listening because they see through his nonsense. This is a problem though as he starts to think he’s right because nobody argues back anymore. He’s not, they’re just bored of listening to his nonsense and ignore him.

 

As I am from now because I value my time more than I do your ‘conversation’.