Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

30 minutes ago, Impostor said:

How am I going to be an optimist about this?

Just keep telling yourself that market forces will improve pay & conditions for workers  - y'know, the way they always do.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Just keep telling yourself that market forces will improve pay & conditions for workers  - y'know, the way they always do.

It's not market forces that have given bricklayers/waitresses/fruit pickers a well earned pay rise since Brexit Angry its the removal of EU market manipulation, swathes of cheap workers to suppress pay and keep wages low  it really seems to fuckinv irk a few on here that a hod carrier or farm worker has finally got a few strings to their bow  

 

A 60% pay rise for fruit pickers was more than overdue. As for the IN irish situation a few were so concerned with yesterday' didn't the DUP and the people of NI get a mammoth payout to support brexit and prop up a tory government?  So Brexit hasn't been that bad for them either..

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-dup-deal-brexit-legal-mps-parliament-vote-a8226056.html

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

It's not market forces that have given bricklayers/waitresses/fruit pickers a well earned pay rise since Brexit 

You were claiming that it's Workers' Playtime thanks to good old supply and demand.

 

Make your mind up.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

As for the IN irish situation a few were so concerned with yesterday' didn't the DUP and the people of NI get a mammoth payout to support brexit and prop up a tory government?  So Brexit hasn't been that bad for them either..

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-dup-deal-brexit-legal-mps-parliament-vote-a8226056.html

 

Wow.

 

I know you don't care about NI, but if you are going to post about it, at least think it through first.

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Wow.

 

I know you don't care about NI, but if you are going to post about it, at least think it through first.

It's not on the top of my priorities I'll admit. Anyway what de ye tink about fruit pickers getting a 60" pay rise? 

[Strontium]

16 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Anyway what de ye tink about fruit pickers getting a 60" pay rise? 

 

If fruit pickers get a 60% pay rise, but everything is 60% more expensive, where is the advantage to anyone?

[No2]

4 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

It’s not that simple. If the wages of agricultural workers go up, 2 things can happen. The cost is either passed to the consumer via a price increase or the millionaire landowners/farmers get a reduced return on their capital invested in the land. I think the latter is more likely as they face increased competition from non EU countries so harder to pass on price rises. 

This post won't age well.

[Strontium]

6 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

It’s not that simple. If the wages of agricultural workers go up, 2 things can happen. The cost is either passed to the consumer via a price increase or the millionaire landowners/farmers get a reduced return on their capital invested in the land. I think the latter is more likely as they face increased competition from non EU countries so harder to pass on price rises. 

 

Farm profits are razor thin as it is, not sure it would be as easy to just swallow the extra cost as you suggest.

 

But I was talking hypotheticals and generals really; Gnasher likes to pretend that we could just double everyone's pay and that the cost of that won't be passed onto anyone.

[No2]

19 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Probably not. The key will be whether the NFI succeeds in restricting imports so as to be able to maintain higher prices. If they do, then yes the price of home grown food will go up along with agricultural land values. 

Homegrown food will be rebranded as premium British food when it's the same as it was yesterday, just dearer. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

The cost is either passed to the consumer via a price increase or the millionaire landowners/farmers get a reduced return on their capital invested in the land.

Oooh, what will it be, what will it beeee????

 

Will the gazillionaire best buddies of the right-wing Government take the financial hit? Or will it be left to us schmucks to pick up the tab again.

 

The suspense is... well, non-existent, really.

[Gnasher]

4 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

If fruit pickers get a 60% pay rise, but everything is 60% more expensive, where is the advantage to anyone?

I'd be very surprised if vegetables/fruit rise by 60%. Anyway havnt supermarkets made hay during the pandemic? Plus they've received generous tax payers handouts, be interesting when they bump up prices.

[Gnasher]

5 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You were claiming that it's Workers' Playtime thanks to good old supply and demand.

 

Make your mind up.

Angry supply and demand has been unfairly weighted against the poor and working immigrants. The game has been slighted for the beneficial to abuse. If you artificially increase the Labour pool you can artificially suppress wages. Britain is now undergoing a Labour/wage realignment to what an employee is naturally worth to the employer.

 

You surely cant veiw a hod carrier from Hull or Scunthorpe having his first wage rise for five years as a bad thing?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Just now, Gnasher said:

You surely cant veiw a hod carrier from Hull or Scunthorpe having his first wage rise for five years as a bad thing?

You surely aren't still pretending that you think I do?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

8 hours ago, Impostor said:

Mobile operator EE will charge new customers extra to use their mobile phones in Europe from January.

 

Those joining or upgrading from 7 July 2021 will be charged £2 a day to use their allowances in 47 European destinations from January 2022.

EE previously said it had no plans to reintroduce roaming charges in Europe.

It is the first UK operator to reintroduce the charges since the Brexit trade deal was signed at the end of December

 

[Gnasher]

9 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You surely aren't still pretending that you think I do?

No it was clumsily put. I'm trying to point out that these various above inflation wage rises in construction, agriculture etc proves that the EU policy of free movement of labour did suppress wages. People like Tim Martin bemoaning on subject of labour shortages within the service industry is as satisfying as it is ironic, the solution of course for bosses like Martin is staring them in the face, increase wages.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

No it was clumsily put. I'm trying to point out that these various above inflation wage rises in construction, agriculture etc proves that the EU policy of free movement of labour did suppress wages. People like Tim Martin bemoaning on subject of labour shortages within the service industry is as satisfying as it is ironic, the solution of course for bosses like Martin is staring them in the face, increase wages.

I'm trying to point out that those wage rises don't prove anything about free movement.  There are lots of factors that influence wage rates.  The supply of labour is an important factor, but it's far from the only one.  Similarly, Brexit is really not the only factor suppressing the supply of migrant labour right now. If we want to see the real effects of Brexit on wages, we will have to wait until a "normal" post-pandemic period.

 

(My guess is that, by that time, this Tory Government, who were the main promoters of Brexit, will have made moves to make sure that it's workers - not their gazillionaire landowning, property speculating friends and donors - who will take the inevitable economic hit.)

[Gnasher]

39 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I'm trying to point out that those wage rises don't prove anything about free movement.  There are lots of factors that influence wage rates.  The supply of labour is an important factor, but it's far from the only one.  Similarly, Brexit is really not the only factor suppressing the supply of migrant labour right now. If we want to see the real effects of Brexit on wages, we will have to wait until a "normal" post-pandemic period.

 

(My guess is that, by that time, this Tory Government, who were the main promoters of Brexit, will have made moves to make sure that it's workers - not their gazillionaire landowning, property speculating friends and donors - who will take the inevitable economic hit.)

I agree with your last paragraph but that's tories being tories. As for wage rises whilst obviously not the only reason the evidence that wage rises in certain professions have gone up partly/mainly because of Brexit is becoming overwhelming and undeniable.

[No2]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

No it was clumsily put. I'm trying to point out that these various above inflation wage rises in construction, agriculture etc proves that the EU policy of free movement of labour did suppress wages. People like Tim Martin bemoaning on subject of labour shortages within the service industry is as satisfying as it is ironic, the solution of course for bosses like Martin is staring them in the face, increase wages.

The pub and hospitality trade are struggling for staff throughout Europe. It's almost like people have looked at an industry that's been shut for a year and decided that could potentially be an unstable career choice. I may swerve that one.

[Gnasher]

20 minutes ago, No2 said:

The pub and hospitality trade are struggling for staff throughout Europe. It's almost like people have looked at an industry that's been shut for a year and decided that could potentially be an unstable career choice. I may swerve that one.

Yeah it is a hard hit industry, it's also similar to construction where a lot of workers veiw the job as temporary until they go off and do something else, I'm talking about students in out of term times or younger workers doing a bit of building site work to gain a bit of capital until they do something else.

[Gnasher]

Ha here we go, major supermarkets like Tesco are meeting Boris Johnson to push for temporary overseas visas to fill warehouse and haulage jobs. Their could be a shortage of Strawberries for Wimbledon.. I was waiting for that one..

 

Supermarkets have been making fucking hay during this pandemic..

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/08/business-supermarkets-government-rishi-sunak-coronavirus

 

'Industry cheifs are holding meetings with govt officials, yeah I bet they are..they could try upping wages and halting govt handouts..

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/25/uk-facing-summer-of-food-shortages-due-to-lack-of-lorry-drivers

 

[Mudface]

Well this sounds like it's going well. Maybe if the Tories had spent the last 5 years planning to mitigate issues they were warned about instead of tediously fighting amongst themselves to implement a deal they now want to renege on, we wouldn't be facing this sort of situation.

 

UK facing summer of food shortages due to lack of lorry drivers
Loss of 100,000 hauliers due to Covid and Brexit will cause food ‘rolling power cuts’, experts warn

strawberry field and pickers
Famers have warned food such as strawberries could rot in the fields unless the government intervenes. 

The country is facing a summer of food shortages likened to a series of “rolling power cuts” because of a loss of 100,000 lorry drivers due to Covid and Brexit, industry chiefs have warned.

In a letter to Boris Johnson they have called for an urgent intervention to allow eastern European drivers back into the country on special visas, similar to those issued to farm pickers, warning that there is a “crisis” in the supply chain.

They have said shortages of workers in warehouses and food processing centres are also having an impact with packing food for supermarket shelves.

Tesco bosses raised the issue at a meeting with the minister for transport, Charlotte Vere, last week warning that the vacancies were creating 48 tonnes of food waste each week, the equivalent of two truck loads.

Sources at the supermarket chain said the lorry driver shortage was affecting fresh food with short shelf life most.

James Mee, a blueberry farmer from Peterborough, said the shortages of food with short shelf life could also hit Wimbledon, synonymous with the British strawberry.

He warned that unless there was government intervention, food could rot in the fields with concerns being raised in the farming community for the late summer grain harvest in addition to soft fruits.

“We have been told by the haulier company we have used for years that they can only come and pick up our fruit once a week. But the fruit only have a five-day shelf life so we need picking up every day. If we can’t get our fruit to the supermarkets, that is massively significant,” said Mee.

The Guardian has spoken to one Polish driver, who had lived in the country before Brexit, who arrived in Doncaster Sheffield airport to respond to the crisis but was refused entry by border force because he did not have enough evidence at the airport to support his settled status claim.

“There is an enormous shortage of HGV drivers that we estimate at between 85,000 and 100,000,” said Richard Burnett, chief executive of the Road Haulage Association.

“We are weeks away from gaps on the shelves, it is as serious as that,” he added.

A recent RHA survey of 796 businesses that employ 45,000 drivers showed that all companies had vacancies.

“We are saying to the government that they must put HGV drivers on the shortage occupation list urgently. We need to get a pool of labour quickly because we cannot train them quickly enough and we need to plug this gap. We’ll have British HGV drivers going on summer holiday soon, which means no backfill at all. So the problem is only going to get worse,” said Burnett.

Shane Brennan, chief executive of the Cold Chain Federation, which represents chilled food warehouses across the country, said: “We are seeing big vacancies in key roles, drivers being the most important one but also in our production line, our packing lines. We’re seeing intermittent supply chain failures into retail and hospitality that is just building week by week.”

He said that with the easing of lockdown, demand for chilled food warehouses was at Christmas levels and would get worse as the country approached “freedom day” and hospitality venues opened.

“I think it is going to be like a series of rolling power cuts in that we are going to see shortages, then shelves replenished, and shortages again. That is going to carry on for as long as demand is unpredictable and labour remains as tight as it is,” added Brennan.

The letter to the prime minister was signed by the Food and Drink Federation, British Frozen Food Federation, Federation of Wholesale Distributors, Cold Chain Federation, Meat Producers Association and the British Beer and Pub Association.

“We firmly believe that intervention from the prime minister/Cabinet Office is the only way we will be able to avert critical supply chains failing at an unprecedented and unimaginable level. Supermarkets are already reporting that they are not receiving their expected food stocks and, as a result, there is considerable wastage,” it said.

Truck driving in the UK has been dominated by eastern European drivers in recent years but Brexit and Covid have created the “perfect storm” for the sector, said Burnett.

“We don’t know if it’s because Europeans who would traditionally be in these roles have left because of Brexit or because of Covid and aren’t able to come back yet because of the pandemic, but it is a very real problem” said Burnett.

He said the risk was that, unless something was done quickly, supply of food from outside the UK could also be hit.

Brexit checks were implemented in full on the continent on 1 January but are being phased in over a year in the UK, with lorry parks in Kent and elsewhere not fully operational yet.

“If you overlay the end of the grace period for checks on food products and the Europeans are not yet ready to do paperwork, we could be facing a really significant problem here in terms of food supply chain,” said Burnett.

The Department for Transport has been contacted for comment.

[Rico1304]

Im having a bbq on Sunday and Frost’s sister is coming.  I’ll be happy to pass on any messages. 

 

It’s unlikely this is true, but it’s a funny story. Can imagine the bloke going mental.  

 

[Anubis]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[No2]

The judicial review proceedings were brought by the former Democratic Unionist party leader Arlene Foster, former UUP leader Steve Aiken, Traditional Unionist Voice political leader Jim Allister, Lord Trimble, the former head of the Ulster Unionist party and co-architect of the 1998 Belfast Good Friday agreement peace deal, the former Brexit party MEP Ben Habib and leave campaigner and former Labour MP Kate Hoey.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

A thread about the personal impacts of "taking back control".

Brafuckingvo to the 51.9%.