Islamic Positive Thread

[Jairzinho]

Gaddafi was clearly a deranged tyrant but helping to get rid of him was definitely a mistake.  Like all good dictators, he had discontent kept to a minimum, by very questionable means for sure, but still.

 

Nonetheless, I lay the blame for these deaths at the door of the jihadist cunts who have since assumed the mantle in Libya and made it impossible to live there unless you comply with their medieval rules.

 

The West made a mistake (as it often does) but evil people are evil, end of.

 

Oh, aye, Jihadist cunts are definitely Jihadist cunts, but four years ago they weren't in charge. We had/have the power to ensure Jihadist cunts aren't in control, but we either decided we didn't care if they were, or certainly cared more about preventing Libya (or anywhere really) from having a modicum of financial independence.

[bouncebrigade]

Oh, aye, Jihadist cunts are definitely Jihadist cunts, but four years ago they weren't in charge. We had/have the power to ensure Jihadist cunts aren't in control, but we either decided we didn't care if they were, or certainly cared more about preventing Libya (or anywhere really) from having a modicum of financial independence.

 

Hard to argue with any of that.

[bouncebrigade]

Must have been a big boat to get several billion Muslims on it.

 

Oh you want worldwide Muslim positivity.

 

How about a majority wanting death for adulterers, homosexuals, and apostates.  Or maybe that suicide bombing civilians is justified.

[Section_31]

"Islamic Positive Thread"

 

 

 

I just find it ironic that an Irishman of all people can't distinguish between religion and violence, and also can't see what's wrong with mass generalisations. 

 

2015's muslims were 80s Irish people. Religious fanatics, terrorists, the enemy within - it was just as untrue then as it is now. 

[VladimirIlyich]

Oh you want worldwide Muslim positivity.

 

How about a majority wanting death for adulterers, homosexuals, and apostates. Or maybe that suicide bombing civilians is justified.

Im sure the same applies to other 'religious' regimes too.

Your mates 'the west' toppled moderate regimes and guaranteed extremists instead. They are also responsible for the formation of ISIS,and pitting Sunni against Shia as well actually backing most of the dictators they eventually murdered.

No good guys here.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

What does "the involvement" mean?

Erm, military involvement and impact of it.

[bouncebrigade]

Im sure the same applies to other 'religious' regimes too.

Your mates 'the west' toppled moderate regimes and guaranteed extremists instead. They are also responsible for the formation of ISIS,and pitting Sunni against Shia as well actually backing most of the dictators they eventually murdered.

No good guys here.

 

I see we have another apologist.

 

What other regimes are you referring to?

 

I can see the many mistakes the West made over the past few decades but I'm fucked if I'm giving these whack jobs a free pass because of it.  And I'd be willing to wager that these views were just as severe pre-invasions.

[Bjornebye]

Kula Shaker were half decent.

[VladimirIlyich]

I see we have another apologist.

 

What other regimes are you referring to?

 

I can see the many mistakes the West made over the past few decades but I'm fucked if I'm giving these whack jobs a free pass because of it. And I'd be willing to wager that these views were just as severe pre-invasions.

Apologist for whom?

I condemn nutjobs of all creeds and colours.ISIS,Saddam,Ayatollahs,Shahs,Emirs,USA,UK,Israel and all the other murdering cunts out there who are only interested in Oil,Weapons and the business of War.

Again,No Good Guys here.

 

[setreal]

[Bjornebye]

he is good in The Internship.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

[Section_31]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/05/iran-bans-devil-worshipping-h

 

 

Homosexual” and “devil worshipping” hairstyles have been banned in Iran, alongside tattoos, sunbed treatments and plucked eyebrows for men, which are all deemed un-Islamic.

The move – aimed at spiky cuts – follows a trend where, each summer, Iranian authorities Iranian authorities get tough on men and women sporting clothing or hairdos seen as imitations of western lifestyles.

In 2010, Iran banned ponytails, mullets and long, gelled hair for men, but allowed 1980s-style floppy fringes or quiffs.

 

[General Dryness]

Sounds like a fatwa against One Direction to me.

 

I'm feeling strongly drawn to Mecca.

[Section_31]

Sounds like a fatwa against One Direction to me.

 

I'm feeling strongly drawn to Mecca.

 

Absolutely. 

 

Imagine seeing Bieber walking down the street and actually being allowed to throw stones at his head - top class country. 

[ElishaScottBC]

New York subway

 

[VladimirIlyich]

Sounds like a fatwa against One Direction to me.

 

I'm feeling strongly drawn to Mecca.

I feel like a game of Bingo every now and again myself.

[General Dryness]

I feel like a game of Bingo every now and again myself.

 

"Two filthy infidel pigs grown fat on the spoils of capitalism, 88".

[VladimirIlyich]

"Two filthy infidel pigs grown fat on the spoils of capitalism, 88".

'Legs that should be covered up in public,eleven.'

 

'Top of the Mosque,90.'

 

'Two Little succulent and slaughtered river birds,number 2.'

[AngryOfTuebrook]

https://yahyabirt1.wordpress.com/2015/06/04/safeguarding-little-abdul-prevent-muslim-schoolchildren-and-the-lack-of-parental-consent/

 

There are a lot of things that could be said about the new statutory guidance on Channel under Prevent issued in April for local authorities, nurseries, schools, universities, social services, health care services, the criminal justice system and the police. There are many hot-button issues here, but I want to focus on the impact of all this on under-18s. Half of our community is under the age of 25 and, according to Census figures, something in the order of 800,000 Muslims under 18 potentially fall within the remit of these policies. From the official guidance (pp.16-17, Paras 77-79) it seems that informed parental consent for under-18s referred under a counter-radicalisation scheme called Channel comes very late in the process. The mainstay of Prevent after 2010, Channel is a multiagency approach to identify and then support individuals being drawn into terrorism, in which the police play a central role. And Channel is not a low impact policy. The trend line for referrals presently is upwards from seven in Channel’s pilot year (2006-7) to 748 in 2012-13. Under an FOI request to the Association of Chief Police Officers, there have been 2653 referrals under Prevent up to April 2013. For ages 13-16, there were 645 referrals, and for 12 and under there were 113. In one case, a child as young as three was referred as part of a whole family. Where religious affiliation data was collected, from 2007-10, 67% of those referred were Muslim and in 2012-13, 57% were Muslim (their percentage in the population being 5%).

In Britain today, all these things could happen to the child of Muslim parents without their consent. Let’s take a hypothetical situation, elements of which are based on incidents a lawyer I’ve spoken who deals with such cases told me about and on this guidance document. There is of course a particular focus on schools (which accounted for a fifth of referrals up to 2013). Since February, schools are obligated under the Counter Terrorism and Security Act to prevent pupils from becoming radicalised.

Imagine your child is named Abdul, aged 12. He is taken out of class and questioned as to his views and behaviour by a member of the school’s senior management team. He might be asked about his beliefs, his political views, his associations, and so on. His case could be referred to the multiagency Channel Panel run by the local authority for assessment on the basis of the school’s investigation, and it would initially be assessed for risk by a police representative, and accepted or rejected at that point. The Panel could assess Abdul’s case and agree a series of interventions under Channel for Abdul. Only after all this referral, assessment and decision-making is completed is the Panel obliged to contact you for your consent in two matters (and only if Abdul’s case is not deemed high risk): (1) that you agree to interventions for Abdul under Channel that the Panel recommends, and (2) that you agree that information about Abdul’s case can be divulged to relevant agencies. It should be noted that the Panel reserves the power not to seek your consent if it deems Abdul’s case serious enough. There is also a further option left to the Panel if you do not agree to Abdul being put into the Channel programme. It can refer Abdul if deemed as “high risk” and “in need” of various forms of intervention from social services from financial and pastoral support all the way up to an “emergency protection order” under sections 17 and 47 of the Children Act 1989. This option adds an element of coercion to the informed consent asked of parents very late in the process of referral and assessment under Channel.

There have been instances where parents first realise that their child has been referred under Prevent because the child tells them he or she has been pulled out of class and questioned about his or her views and behaviour. In such cases, it is clear that some schools are assuming an implied consent on the part of parents to have their children questioned and assessed in this way. They have not heard formally from the school or from the Prevent Panel. Cases like these have not yet come to light because these parents are frightened of speaking out. They are worried that they will be labelled as extremists. Of course we have heard of reported cases where parents were completely unaware of the fact that their children had been radicalized without their knowledge. However, notwithstanding this issue, there are many genuine reasons to worry about how fair or proportionate this policy of referral and assessment under Channel is or will be in future. Let me end by sketching out a few of them.

The main concern is that we are heading towards intensified policing of regular conservative Islamic religiosity and dissenting politics among Muslims. Recent comments by Mak Chishty, the Metropolitan Police’s Commander for Engagement, that identify Muslim children not celebrating Christmas or supporting the boycotts, sanctions and divestments movement by not shopping at Marks & Spencer as potential indicators of extremism are very alarming. At the time of writing, the Met has not responded to calls for proper clarification on these remarks. Last week, it was found that a pilot survey (later scrapped when it was exposed) in east London primary schools was asking intrusive questions about political and religious issues from children as young as nine, without anonymizing the data.

The new Extremism Bill (pp.62-63) goes further in the direction of policing non-violent “extremism”, which includes measures like banning groups, gagging individuals, closing premises, employment blacklists and censoring broadcasts. Our Home Secretary Theresa May could not define “extremism” when pressed to do so by John Humphreys on Radio 4’s Today programme. Her response hardly seemed a step above an arbitrary rule of thumb that one would know an extremist if one saw one. This loose notion of extremism is predicated on active opposition to a simple checklist of British values, namely as set out in the guidance, “democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs.” While I don’t want to get into an extended discussion of this point here, these values are not parochially British nor are they unsubstantiated in the Islamic interpretive traditions or unpractised throughout the long and rich history of a world religion with 1.6 billion adherents. More importantly such values do not resolve conflicts in themselves. Rather, they define the very ground upon which we agree and disagree as to their meaning, application and commensurability.

To expand the point about commensurability further, David Cameron recently opined in promoting the new extremism bill that the British value of tolerance had been too “passive”. To quote him, the notion that “as long as you obey the law, we [the state] will leave you alone” was now to be abandoned. For many British people, including myself, this is in fact a cherished notion that needs to be protected at all costs rather than abandoned. So while tolerance is a value, what it really entails at any particular moment in the life of our nation will be up for debate. Values frame our national discussion but they do not define a monoculture. This contentious and unproductive debate about British values is going on against a background of anti-immigration politics, Tory triumph and UKIP gains in the election, the fragmentation of the left, and indeed the growing appeal of ISIS to some Muslim young people. Around 700 or so are believed to gone over to Syria and Iraq.

In this atmosphere of suspicion and fear, what are Muslim parents going to do to protect their children? There are lively discussions on social media among Muslim parents about this. A widespread view seems to be striking a balance between bringing up your children with a positive view of themselves, their faith, their community, their society and country and the world at large while engaging them in an informed way about the very complex issues around terrorism, extremism, ISIS, the war on terror, racism, Islamophobia, grooming, sexism, etc. It is a daunting task. Hardly any Muslim parent I know thinks it is either easy or avoidable. Continually talking things through, listening, and offering support and guidance to our children is clearly essential. Dealing with teenage hormonal changes and challenges like depression and so on are more than enough for parents to deal with, without a kneejerk presumption that Muslim teens are converts on the jihadi “road to Damascus”.

Equally, a lot of Muslim parents I’ve talked to are concerned that the government is really overdoing things. The lack of parental consent is a massive issue. The government has set up an ill-advised process that implicitly excludes and alienates Muslim parents under an ethos of presumed mistrust. As I’ve outlined above, the school and the Prevent Panel can make made major judgements and decisions about your child without even talking to you. We all have reasons to doubt how competently these Panels will make decisions about Muslim children. If they exhibit anything like the cultural ignorance of Commander Mak Chishty then we have every reason to fear that a lot of bad calls will be made.

Therefore, I would propose that it is in our collective interest to safeguard our children by pushing for consent and consultation to be at the heart of this policy. The main targets of this policy – Muslim children and by extension their families – have been pushed to the margins. There is no requirement for Prevent panels to have any form of community representation and as a matter of course parents have no say in the referral or assessment process. I am aware of one case where a representative from a mosque council in a London borough has been offered a place on a separate advisory body, whose remit seems very limited and whose continuance is subject to the review of the Prevent Panel. This is obviously far from satisfactory: it seems tokenistic and is in danger of merely providing some kind of community rubber stamp for a referral and assessment process under Channel largely unaccountable to the community that it most affects. And then there is the matter that statistics from ACPO show that four-fifths of referrals are not taken further by Prevent Panels. The negative conclusion from this is that children are being pushed towards Channel without cause. As parents we have to ask at what price? What impact will all this scrutiny at school have on Abdul’s sense of well-being and belonging, his confidence, his aspiration, or his happiness?

My personal judgement is that Prevent has gotten to a stage where it is institutionalising a “them and us” mentality that will reap a harvest of suspicion, distrust and doubt on all sides, and will drive the tiny youth pro-ISIS subculture further underground while conflating it with both conservative Islamic piety and Muslim radical politics. In my view it is better that we abandon Prevent in its new statutory guise and go back to the drawing board. In the interim, however, so long as Prevent is on the statute books, it may be wise to seek greater safeguards for our children against a system that has great potential to be stigmatising and discriminatory. There is obviously a lively debate to be had about which mix of tactics will work best to avoid innocent Muslim kids being mislabelled as extremists in schools.

Abdul deserves a better future. One in which he is treated a citizen rather than as a suspect. Where he can disagree, sometimes even be bold and radical in disagreeing if he chooses to do so, without being labelled an extremist. Where he can be proud of rather than be ashamed of being a Muslim. He deserves to be inspired at school, opened up to new possibilities, for his autonomy to be nurtured and respected. This is the kind of schooling and the kind of country that we need to fight for.

 

 

[dennis tooth]

Gaddafi was clearly a deranged tyrant but helping to get rid of him was definitely a mistake.  Like all good dictators, he had discontent kept to a minimum, by very questionable means for sure, but still.

 

Nonetheless, I lay the blame for these deaths at the door of the jihadist cunts who have since assumed the mantle in Libya and made it impossible to live there unless you comply with their medieval rules.

 

The West made a mistake (as it often does) but evil people are evil, end of.

We make mistakes, they are evil.

 

Haha mong

[dennis tooth]

No positive Islamic stories for four weeks?

Well here's one.

They threw 12 Christians to their death off a refugee boat in the Mediterranean.

Religion of peace etc, rinse and repeat.

All twelve had to go, i fucking hate christians, which one of the 12 victims do you have an issue with here?

1 C purslow champ manager cheat

2 Terry C manc the word cuntery profferer

3 C slater rich poor actor batman

4 C bale rich poor actor, batman throw him overboard abdul.

5 C brando son of rich good actor, murderer and poor actor

6 C dior, the man who rips you off to please your wife every year.

7 c Ronaldo 'splash'

8 Christian of Oliva, 13th century Cistercian monk and the first bishop of Prussia (bad prick)

9 hans C anderson (probs a peado anyway, no room on a migrant boat for manuscripts and quill refills chuck him in)

10 c grey from 50 shades of grey (no room for fictional characters who have no hope of asylum.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11. C Baarnard.  Heartless bastard.

12. C. Benteke.  Meh.

[setreal]

Negged for knowing the first name of the 50 shades dude.

[General Dryness]

13. The Christians. A harvest for the world indeed.