Islamic Positive Thread

[bouncebrigade]

I think it's strange how we're constantly fed the media driven narrative of there being an increased level of Anti-Semitism across Europe when, if anything, the growing and tangible sense of anti-Islamic sentiment trumps it hands down, but gets nowhere near as much media scrutiny.

 

Our media and population tends to focus on and amplify wrong doings by those of a certain faith, while not being as morally outraged if the perpetrators of an exact same offence is white, British and doesn't abide by the Quran.

 

Just look at the BBC child abuse scandals, the systematic abuse in the Catholic Church etc. It provokes a noticeably lower amount of outrage than if a gang of Muslims groom some girls in a Yorkshire town. But, both are equally abhorrent. Whether it's a 9/11, Lee Rigby backlash, I don't really know. But there's definitely hypocrisy in reactions amongst some, dependant on the faith (and, implicitly, the skin colour) of the offenders.

 

A further example is FGM. A horrific practice. Rightly condemned. But I've just been reading about an orthodox Jewish traditional circumcision procedure, where the child is circumcised then the Jewish holy man heals the wound by sucking the blood from the small child's penis.

 

Not only is this very weird and a bit child abusey, it's barbaric, and their are instances where herpes has been passed on to the child. Also reportedly caused a death, in one instance.

 

Now,imagine if the person performing this task had a Quran in his hand and was called Muhammad. It'd be widely reported, and outrage would follow.

 

But, it hasn't in the real world. Strange.....

 

I don't know how you are forming those views but you are wrong to say that Catholic church abuses and crimes haven't provoked an outrage (or whatever exactly it is you are trying to say).  In Ireland, mass attendance has fallen off a cliff and the church have lost all authority, particularly among rural, conservative areas where they once would have held a lot of sway.

 

I don't know where you are from or live but if it's England then I'm wondering how you would claim to have a view on the reactions of people to Cathlic church scandals?

[Mook]

You wouldn't notice the backpack because of his massive nose.

 

What?

[bouncebrigade]

I've got to admit, if I saw a Jew on the underground with a backpack I'd assume it was full of money.

 

Exactly.  That is, harmless.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I don't know how you are forming those views but you are wrong to say that Catholic church abuses and crimes haven't provoked an outrage (or whatever exactly it is you are trying to say). In Ireland, mass attendance has fallen off a cliff and the church have lost all authority, particularly among rural, conservative areas where they once would have held a lot of sway.

 

I don't know where you are from or live but if it's England then I'm wondering how you would claim to have a view on the reactions of people to Cathlic church scandals?

Try reading the post again. I didn't say they haven't caused ANY outrage. My point is that if the perpetrators are Muslims, the rhetoric gets hyped up, all people of that faith are judged by the actions of few, there's public calls for people of that faith to openly condemn their fellow Muslims and to tackle the problems of their religion, there's gangs of skin headed middle aged men protesting outside courts etc.

 

There's a lot more faux, agenda driven outrage and calls for religious introspection if a Muslim is involved. It's clear, apparent and patently undeniable.

 

p.s. I'm from Liverpool.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

It has caused outrage in the US, it's gone all the way to the Supreme Court but there's a campaign to stop it. About 3k lads each year suffer it - fucking lunacy.

 

Not wishing to start a game of 'Religious nutters top trumps' about 300k girls suffer FGM in the US every year and even the best outcome is fucking horrible for the woman concerned. So FGM is more widespread and probably a huge degree more damaging.

Any sort of info to confirm the religious make up of these 300k girls?

[Jairzinho]

Any sort of info to confirm the religious make up of these 300k girls?

 

100% Muslim. Like in Kenya.

[stringvest]

Any sort of info to confirm the religious make up of these 300k girls?

 

It's primarily an African Muslim thing, I thought.  Does it happen with Muslims from other cultures?

[bouncebrigade]

Try reading the post again. I didn't say they haven't caused ANY outrage. My point is that if the perpetrators are Muslims, the rhetoric gets hyped up, all people of that faith are judged by the actions of few, there's public calls for people of that faith to openly condemn their fellow Muslims and to tackle the problems of their religion, there's gangs of skin headed middle aged men protesting outside courts etc.

 

There's a lot more faux, agenda driven outrage and calls for religious introspection if a Muslim is involved. It's clear, apparent and patently undeniable.

 

p.s. I'm from Liverpool.

 

Quite frankly that's a load of bollocks.

 

Perfectly good and innocent priests have been lumped in with the bad 'uns in the same way as you describe for Muslims.

 

And why wouldn't there be public calls for Muslims to condemn atrocities committed by their fellow Muslims?  The difference in some cases is the ambiguity.  99% of Catholics would and have condemned child abuse in the Catholic church unreservedly.  I'm not sure the numbers would be so high in the Muslim world.  To top it off, these people aren't even from the countries where they are spouting their rhetoric.

 

I don't want to get into a religious debate.  I'm not a practising Catholic (other than the occasional trip to Mass) so I have no bias in what I say.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Quite frankly that's a load of bollocks.

 

Perfectly good and innocent priests have been lumped in with the bad 'uns in the same way as you describe for Muslims.

 

And why wouldn't there be public calls for Muslims to condemn atrocities committed by their fellow Muslims? The difference in some cases is the ambiguity. 99% of Catholics would and have condemned child abuse in the Catholic church unreservedly. I'm not sure the numbers would be so high in the Muslim world. To top it off, these people aren't even from the countries where they are spouting their rhetoric.

 

I don't want to get into a religious debate. I'm not a practising Catholic (other than the occasional trip to Mass) so I have no bias in what I say.

We'll agree to disagree. Even though you're wrong.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

It's primarily an African Muslim thing, I thought. Does it happen with Muslims from other cultures?

Small percentages in Yemen and Kurdish areas of Iraq.

 

But, also occurs in African countries where there is a predominantly Christian demographic. Such as Ethiopia and Eritrea.

 

I think it was Niger where something like 55% of women who'd been subject to FGM were Christian, 2% were muslim.

 

I think it's more accurately a central African, traditional problem, with some religious aspect, rather than being driven mainly by religion.

[Section_31]

How come Catholics in England didn't get asked to condemn the activities of the IRA?

 

The IRA did things every bit as horrendous as ISIS, from blowing up kids in Warrington to the truly abhorrent proxy bomb campaign, kidnapping someone's family then making someone commit a suicide bombing because if they didn't you'd kill said family.

 

ISIS don't represent Islam any more than the IRA do catholics. Both organisations attracted extremists who felt they had a cause, which some agreed with and some did not.

[stringvest]

How come Catholics in England didn't get asked to condemn the activities of the IRA?

 

er... look at that lovely doggie?

[Mook]

There were protestants in the IRA.

[bouncebrigade]

How come Catholics in England didn't get asked to condemn the activities of the IRA?

 

The IRA did things every bit as horrendous as ISIS, from blowing up kids in Warrington to the truly abhorrent proxy bomb campaign, kidnapping someone's family then making someone commit a suicide bombing because if they didn't you'd kill said family.

 

ISIS don't represent Islam any more than the IRA do catholics. Both organisations attracted extremists who felt they had a cause, which some agreed with and some did not.

 

How do you know they weren't asked to condemn such activities?  The majority of people in Ireland despised the IRA, including myself (albeit I wasn't around for the very worst of it).  Fucking knuckle dragging cunts every one of them.

 

My involvement in this discussion started out in response to Islamophobia vs. anti-semitism.  I'm fucked if I'm getting into another boring, pointless IRA-related dicussion.

[Rico1304]

Any sort of info to confirm the religious make up of these 300k girls?

I think that's quite sensitive...

 

http://www.equalitynow.org/sites/default/files/EN_FAQ_FGM_in_US.pdf

[Rico1304]

How come Catholics in England didn't get asked to condemn the activities of the IRA?

The IRA did things every bit as horrendous as ISIS, from blowing up kids in Warrington to the truly abhorrent proxy bomb campaign, kidnapping someone's family then making someone commit a suicide bombing because if they didn't you'd kill said family.

ISIS don't represent Islam any more than the IRA do catholics. Both organisations attracted extremists who felt they had a cause, which some agreed with and some did not.

I can remember going to mass in the 80's and both sides being hugely criticised, and the whole 'not in our name' stuff.

[Section_31]

How do you know they weren't asked to condemn such activities? The majority of people in Ireland despised the IRA, including myself (albeit I wasn't around for the very worst of it). Fucking knuckle dragging cunts every one of them.

 

My involvement in this discussion started out in response to Islamophobia vs. anti-semitism. I'm fucked if I'm getting into another boring, pointless IRA-related dicussion.

Because I remember the news, I never, ever heard Catholic organisations and groups being asked to condemn the IRA. They were portrayed as a paramilitary organisation not as representatives of Catholicism.

 

 

The fact is the middle east is an infinitely more dangerous and unstable place than it ever has been before. Sarkozy and Cameron stood and took the plaudits after putting a bullet in Gadaffi only a couple of years after he'd been round to for tea and crumpets, now the place is a hellhole where people get beheaded on the beach.

 

The top brass of Isis is supposedly made up of former Iraqi army commanders which the yanks sacked in their infinite wisdom.

 

Most of this hardly gets reported, instead I'm forced to watch Kay Burley quizz Jihadi John's former nursery school teacher about why she didn't report his drawings to MI5.

 

The whole thing is Winston Smith esque expunging of facts.

[bouncebrigade]

Because I remember the news, I never, ever heard Catholic organisations and groups being asked to condemn the IRA. They were portrayed as a paramilitary organisation not as representatives of Catholicism.

 

 

The fact is the middle east is an infinitely more dangerous and unstable place than it ever has been before. Sarkozy and Cameron stood and took the plaudits after putting a bullet in Gadaffi only a couple of years after he'd been round to for tea and crumpets, now the place is a hellhole where people get beheaded on the beach.

 

The top brass of Isis is supposedly made up of former Iraqi army commanders which the yanks sacked in their infinite wisdom.

 

Most of this hardly gets reported, instead I'm forced to watch Kay Burley quizz Jihadi John's former nursery school teacher about why she didn't report his drawings to MI5.

 

The whole thing is Winston Smith esque expunging of facts.

 

If you're asking me why they weren't quizzed then the answer is I don't know.  Why the fuck is that even relevant?  But what I am telling you is that if Catholics were quizzed then the answer would have been as I previously stated (we don't support them etc).

 

I don't think the two are comparable either and I think your analysis is overly simplistic. As bad as they were, the IRA didn't go around quoting the bible and trying to justify their acts as extreme interpretations of this book.  They were overwhelmingly Catholic but their role was primarily against occupying forces.  Of course there were sectarian acts committed, but their bread and butter was attacking British soldiers to try and achieve a full British withdrawal and they weren't after a "Catholic caliphate" or anything resembling it.  They wanted a united Ireland, but one encompasssing Protestants and whoever else wanted to be there.

 

Whereas ISIS...

[Section_31]

If you're asking me why they weren't quizzed then the answer is I don't know. Why the fuck is that even relevant? But what I am telling you is that if Catholics were quizzed then the answer would have been as I previously stated (we don't support them etc).

 

I don't think the two are comparable either and I think your analysis is overly simplistic. As bad as they were, the IRA didn't go around quoting the bible and trying to justify their acts as extreme interpretations of this book. They were overwhelmingly Catholic but their role was primarily against occupying forces. Of course there were sectarian acts committed, but their bread and butter was attacking British soldiers to try and achieve a full British withdrawal and they weren't after a "Catholic caliphate" or anything resembling it. They wanted a united Ireland, but one encompasssing Protestants and whoever else wanted to be there.

 

Whereas ISIS...

The reason it's being raised is because Islam and and Muslims in this country are being expected and asked to condemn Isis as some kind of test of loyalty in a way catholics never were.

 

Isis were and are fighting an occupying force, President Assad who we were on the verge of bombing the shit out of until Putin completely outmaneuvered Cameron, which to be fair, doesn't take much effort.

 

Everyone was hot to trot and stick a tomahwk up Assad's arse a couple of years back now British citizens are being jailed for the same length of time as Gary Glitter just for travelling to Syria. It's quite clearly open season, and one things our governments are very astute at is shifting blame.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Yes, Islamic fundamentalists behead British soldiers, whereas the IRA just drag them from cars, torture them, shoot them and impale them on spikes.

 

No comparison....

 

But, I'm sure it was all alright again when they were forgiven at confession.

[bouncebrigade]

The reason it's being raised is because Islam and and Muslims in this country are being expected and asked to condemn Isis as some kind of test of loyalty in a way catholics never were.

 

Isis were and are fighting an occupying force, President Assad who we were on the verge of bombing the shit out of until Putin completely outmaneuvered Cameron, which to be fair, doesn't take much effort.

 

Everyone was hot to trot and stick a tomahwk up Assad's arse a couple of years back now British citizens are being jailed for the same length of time as Gary Glitter just for travelling to Syria. It's quite clearly open season, and one things our governments are very astute at is shifting blame.

 

That's interesting.

 

I wasn't aware Assyrians, Shias and Yazidis were occupying forces who should be raped, pillaged and murdered.

[bouncebrigade]

Yes, Islamic fundamentalists behead British soldiers, whereas the IRA just drag them from cars, torture them, shoot them and impale them on spikes.

 

No comparison....

 

But, I'm sure it was all alright again when they were forgiven at confession.

 

We are talking about religion here.  Not methods of execution.

[Section_31]

I'm not going to start arguing in the defence of Isis, they're head cases, you'll get no argument from me. But you said my comparison was simplistic and said the IRA was fighting an occupying force, and Isis would no doubt try and argue the same.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

We are talking about religion here. Not methods of execution.

 

Religion doesn't really matter that much. If you're willing to inhumanely slaughter innocents you're a lunatic irrespective of your motivation.

 

And, your motivation should not be used to blacken the names of all with even the most tenuous of links to your motivation, be that religion or nationalism.

[bouncebrigade]

Religion doesn't really matter that much. If you're willing to inhumanely slaughter innocents you're a lunatic irrespective of your motivation.

 

And, your motivation should not be used to blacken the names of all with even the most tenuous of links to your motivation, be that religion or nationalism.

 

I don't disagree with any of that.

 

I only jumped in to this discussion to talk about anti-semitism vs. Islamophobia.