Southampton at Home match thread

[dennis tooth]

dennis

 

managers make mistakes

ferguson signed veron for 35m

 

what about sturridge and coutinho though ?

we bought for a combined £20m - how much could we sell them for now ?

Yeah but he wont the league a few times and Veron was an amazing player, as was Forlan they just didnt click.

Borini is not and never will be at that level, its not like he didnt know him, so why bring him in and loan him out then?

Aspas is a repeat of the first mistake, why was he even on the pitch today?

Gerrard and Luis dovetailing were fine but the issue is, we have then signed Sturridge and Coutinho, all amazing players dont get me wrong, but are we not signing players of a similar calibre who play similar positions, on top of each other and shooting ourselves in the foot by not addressing the actual weak spots in our team.

You are only as good as your weakest spot.

So now we have to negate those players abilities by fudging them round the team.

With everyone fit Gerrard cant play in his best position cos Coutinho is there. But Coutinho cant play there because we would have to play two up front in Sturridge or Suarez but then one of them will have to play out wide but if we play 3 up top we cant fit Coutinho in behind the striker because we havent addressed the DM position so we are very, very top heavy and you cant just throw 4 up front with an ageing Gerrard and Ligament Lucas has not shown the same form so arent enough to play midfield on their own. I mean who plays with just two midfielders? Not even Barca would do that shit, its suicide.

Another couple of summers under ROdgers and we will end up with Gerrard at RB, Coutinho at LB, Suarez and Sturridge at CB, Aspas and Borini at CM, Ibe and Sterling out wide, Mikytarian at AM behind Diego Costa up front.

 

Are people not seeing this shit? Its fucking mental.

[Trucker Paddy]

I like your style. We'd defo has a better chance with 12 men

Ha ha

 

 

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[Maca]

Yeah but he wont the league a few times and Veron was an amazing player, as was Forlan they just didnt click.

Borini is not and never will be at that level, its not like he didnt know him, so why bring him in and loan him out then?

Aspas is a repeat of the first mistake, why was he even on the pitch today?

Gerrard and Luis dovetailing were fine but the issue is, we have then signed Sturridge and Coutinho, all amazing players dont get me wrong, but are we not signing players of a similar calibre who play similar positions, on top of each other and shooting ourselves in the foot by not addressing the actual weak spots in our team.

You are only as good as your weakest spot.

So now we have to negate those players abilities by fudging them round the team.

With everyone fit Gerrard cant play in his best position cos Coutinho is there. But Coutinho cant play there because we would have to play two up front in Sturridge or Suarez but then one of them will have to play out wide but if we play 3 up top we cant fit Coutinho in behind the striker because we havent addressed the DM position so we are very, very top heavy and you cant just throw 4 up front with an ageing Gerrard and Ligament Lucas has not shown the same form so arent enough to play midfield on their own. I mean who plays with just two midfielders? Not even Barca would do that shit, its suicide.

Another couple of summers under ROdgers and we will end up with Gerrard at RB, Coutinho at LB, Suarez and Sturridge at CB, Aspas and Borini at CM, Ibe and Sterling out wide, Mikytarian at AM behind Diego Costa up front.

 

Are people not seeing this shit? Its fucking mental.

I get your point and it irks me gerrard isnt playing in his best position and like you I think we needed a least one combative midfielder but we are a few years behind city united and Chelsea so I can see the logic behind rogers bolstering defence ths year.   Mybe January and next year he may target midield  

[Nightcat]

That's all well and good but when your captain doesn't give a fuck and your manager plays 4 centre halfs when he had options besides, then I think we all have the right to complain.

 

Plus we've been shite since the start of this season.

So Gerrard doesn't give a fuck eh?

 

You don't mention the CLEAR PENALTY we should have won though.

 

There are two idiotic ways to approach todays result imo:

 

1st idiotic way to approach today's result:

 

"We should be winning against Southampton even if the referee is slaughtering us".

 

Bullshit. Wake up to the 21st century Premier League were teams like Southampton have brilliant managers and spend decent money on very good players. This is not 1980s when Liverpool entered the pitch like Mike Tyson and knocked out any team. You fail to realise: 

 

a. Premier League is getting very rough for all teams. Clubs like Newcastle line up players of the quality of Cisse and Remy. It's not easy to beat any team currently in the Premier League.

 

b. We had key players absent (Johnson, Coutinho, Suarez), who are among our best players.

 

c. We were not been given a CLEAR penalty in a crucial moment which would have changed the  route of the game and allowed us more space to create more chances.

 

2nd idiotic way to approach today's result.

 

"No probs. It's like we lost against United and won against Southampton. It's knee jeck reaction etc..."

 

No it is not a knee jerk reaction. When you are top of the League and your rivals for a Top 4 finish have made relatively slow starts, you need to take advantage and extend your lead. We didn't do it. We failed miserably to do at home, partly because of the referee who did not award us a clear penalty in a crucial moment.

[dennis tooth]

Im not even sure he is 'in charge' of who we sign, the whole proccess is unclear and very secretive.

I dont know but he doesnt seem bothered by the DM position, the few comments he has touched on it with suggest he is not interested in it as a concept.

A bad shame if so as a player like that would be an ace platform for the gifted attack we have.

Rogers/Benitez joint managers anyone? We would bum everyone.

I had low expectations of Rodgers here and he has not really surpassed them, not all his own making but we have glaring weaknesses that could have been easily addressed. 

Momo on a pay as you play wouldnt do any harm but that wont happen. I dont see Allen adding anything when he is back, we could see when he was fit and firing he wasnt the answer, he did ok and may find a place but he's not the man to do the job we need, we dont have anyone on our books that are.

The summer was another mess for me, we wasted loads of time, wanted a 'marquee' signing, then signed a load of defenders. Not a total mess but we arent a whole lot better and the team seems even more lobsided than before.

[BCM]

Im not even sure he is 'in charge' of who we sign, the whole proccess is unclear and very secretive.

I dont know but he doesnt seem bothered by the DM position, the few comments he has touched on it with suggest he is not interested in it as a concept.

A bad shame if so as a player like that would be an ace platform for the gifted attack we have.

Rogers/Benitez joint managers anyone? We would bum everyone.

I had low expectations of Rodgers here and he has not really surpassed them, not all his own making but we have glaring weaknesses that could have been easily addressed. 

Momo on a pay as you play wouldnt do any harm but that wont happen. I dont see Allen adding anything when he is back, we could see when he was fit and firing he wasnt the answer, he did ok and may find a place but he's not the man to do the job we need, we dont have anyone on our books that are.

The summer was another mess for me, we wasted loads of time, wanted a 'marquee' signing, then signed a load of defenders. Not a total mess but we arent a whole lot better and the team seems even more lobsided than before.

 

There is no way Rafa would leave Napoli now, he is building a great side there. Liverpool have invested in Rodgers now, they need to see where it ends

[RedKnight]

What a clusterfuck that was. That right there, was the worst overall performance of the Rodgers era. Everyone, from the manager down, completely underperformed to a level that was completely unacceptable. I've been angry or annoyed after results but that one especially bothered me. I just earlier in this thread that even with the injuries we have, we should still be able to beat Southampton at home. Unfortunately not only did we fail to beat them, we also failed to compete with them all over the pitch. They completely had our number and the team disappeared into a sinkhole during the second half where formation and tactics broke down as well as the basics like passing and tackling.

 

This is the first game where I've truly doubted Rodgers' ability as a coach. As I said, I think beating them was a must but this is football and strange things happen. It's Rodgers' job to put out the best team possible and compete but he failed utterly in doing that today. We've defeats in the past where we've battered the opposition and come up short but I struggle to think of a time where a team like Southampton came to Anfield and were the better team with and without the ball.  Rodgers has a little moan about the squad size but he's got no ground for complaint. Playing four centre backs was like the dark days of the Houllier era and it failed miserably. How do I know? Because as soon as we conceded he brought Enrique on. Why do that if he wasn't fit? It smacks of Rodgers wanting shoehorn Sahko in rather than mould the team to what it needs. Don't get me wrong, Enrique was fucking awful when he did come on but then so was everyone else. Watching those four at the back was like the bit in Lord of the Rings when all those trees go and have a fight with Christopher Lee. The only one to emerge with credit for me was Lucas, who did his job but when the other components of the team fail the  it's all much of a muchness.

 

Gerrard had an absolute stinker and Henderson's flaws were exposed in this game. We needed cool heads to keep hold of the ball in there today and the two of them failed to do it. Henderson failed to trap a ball and letting it bounce only for a defender to head away was a particular lowlight. He's brilliant when we press teams but when he's in possession he's just isn't dynamic or creative enough. I don't know what Gerrard's excuse was because he is capable of that but he seemed, as did the entire team again, to run out of steam.

 

Aspas is now just getting on nerves, he isn't up to the task being asked of him and he's a waste of a shirt at the moment. Get him in the weight room and maybe he'll get better but he has no physicality and it hurts the forwards. Sturridge was alienated up front and Moses had a game where for every one good thing he did, he did two things poorly. At the back all the fucking around with the goalkeeper (who was great in actual goalkeeping) and passes almost got us into trouble on at least three occasions.

 

I think I preferred having lots of possession and losing because slowly but surely we're getting out duelled by other teams on that front and we're not creating lots of chances. The fluidity that we saw at the end of last season has vanished and the possession football we saw earlier last seen has gone too. I don't know what we're trying to be at the moment but it isn't working as our second halves have been dreadful. For a team so dependent on full backs you can't play Sahko and Toure there, neither of whom were poor but they aren't able to do the attacking tasks required. 

 

Rodgers needs to solve these problems sharpish, he's got Sunderland and Palace in the league next and that's six points we need and should get. A fuck up against one of those two and he'll start feeling a little bit of pressure. He needs to earn his money and pick a back two and stick with it. He tried to be too clever today and then ended making the subs that the team should have been to begin with, Alberto for Skrtel aside. 

 

Bitterly disappointing that we lost but unacceptable the level of performance that was produced. Being had off by Southampton at home is not acceptable and remember when loads blamed Joe Allen for us getting well beat down there? Turns out they seem to have us figured right out and Rodgers has no clue what to do about them. They pressed us when we had the ball and they outpassed when they had it. Ruined a really nice, sunny day. Twats.

[derykw]

Not good today at all. The 2nd half was utterly abysmal, in keeping with every other game this season.

 

I`ve  said after every game but I`ll say it again, our midfield is fucking shit. Lucas Leiva is a total nothing player who doesn`t bring anything to the table, he wouldn`t get in the reserves in most top Prem teams. Fucking useless.

Gerrard while not the player he was is being totally wasted by being played so far back. Just play him as the advanced one of the triangle.

 

This result and performance has been coming. I can`t emphasise enough how shit our midfield is.

[Nightcat]

Good post Red Knight.

 

I'm not sure whether Aspas' issues can be solved in the gym. I said since we signed him that his CV was anything but impressive. One-two seasons in Primera and the rest of his career in lower divisions. He never played at any stage for any Spanish national team. So far I think Borini looked better than Aspas.

 

Can someone remind me what happened to Joe Allen? Is he still injured?

[JoeBuck]

 

What a clusterfuck that was. That right there, was the worst overall performance of the Rodgers era. Everyone, from the manager down, completely underperformed to a level that was completely unacceptable. I've been angry or annoyed after results but that one especially bothered me. I just earlier in this thread that even with the injuries we have, we should still be able to beat Southampton at home. Unfortunately not only did we fail to beat them, we also failed to compete with them all over the pitch. They completely had our number and the team disappeared into a sinkhole during the second half where formation and tactics broke down as well as the basics like passing and tackling.

 

This is the first game where I've truly doubted Rodgers' ability as a coach. As I said, I think beating them was a must but this is football and strange things happen. It's Rodgers' job to put out the best team possible and compete but he failed utterly in doing that today. We've defeats in the past where we've battered the opposition and come up short but I struggle to think of a time where a team like Southampton came to Anfield and were the better team with and without the ball.  Rodgers has a little moan about the squad size but he's got no ground for complaint. Playing four centre backs was like the dark days of the Houllier era and it failed miserably. How do I know? Because as soon as we conceded he brought Enrique on. Why do that if he wasn't fit? It smacks of Rodgers wanting shoehorn Sahko in rather than mould the team to what it needs. Don't get me wrong, Enrique was fucking awful when he did come on but then so was everyone else. Watching those four at the back was like the bit in Lord of the Rings when all those trees go and have a fight with Christopher Lee. The only one to emerge with credit for me was Lucas, who did his job but when the other components of the team fail the  it's all much of a muchness.

 

Gerrard had an absolute stinker and Henderson's flaws were exposed in this game. We needed cool heads to keep hold of the ball in there today and the two of them failed to do it. Henderson failed to trap a ball and letting it bounce only for a defender to head away was a particular lowlight. He's brilliant when we press teams but when he's in possession he's just isn't dynamic or creative enough. I don't know what Gerrard's excuse was because he is capable of that but he seemed, as did the entire team again, to run out of steam.

 

Aspas is now just getting on nerves, he isn't up to the task being asked of him and he's a waste of a shirt at the moment. Get him in the weight room and maybe he'll get better but he has no physicality and it hurts the forwards. Sturridge was alienated up front and Moses had a game where for every one good thing he did, he did two things poorly. At the back all the fucking around with the goalkeeper (who was great in actual goalkeeping) and passes almost got us into trouble on at least three occasions.

 

I think I preferred having lots of possession and losing because slowly but surely we're getting out duelled by other teams on that front and we're not creating lots of chances. The fluidity that we saw at the end of last season has vanished and the possession football we saw earlier last seen has gone too. I don't know what we're trying to be at the moment but it isn't working as our second halves have been dreadful. For a team so dependent on full backs you can't play Sahko and Toure there, neither of whom were poor but they aren't able to do the attacking tasks required. 

 

Rodgers needs to solve these problems sharpish, he's got Sunderland and Palace in the league next and that's six points we need and should get. A fuck up against one of those two and he'll start feeling a little bit of pressure. He needs to earn his money and pick a back two and stick with it. He tried to be too clever today and then ended making the subs that the team should have been to begin with, Alberto for Skrtel aside. 

 

Bitterly disappointing that we lost but unacceptable the level of performance that was produced. Being had off by Southampton at home is not acceptable and remember when loads blamed Joe Allen for us getting well beat down there? Turns out they seem to have us figured right out and Rodgers has no clue what to do about them. They pressed us when we had the ball and they outpassed when they had it. Ruined a really nice, sunny day. Twats.

 

Good assessment this.  Thought Morgan Schneiderlin bossed the game and showed Gerrard and Lucas what a top class midfielder looked like - in fairness to Stevie, he was trying too hard towards the end but our real captain today (and best player) was Toure, just like Carra's been our real skipper for the best 10 years.

 

We are mentally weak and lack bottle - see Alberto's fluffed shot or Sterling's pathetic lack of control when he had a real chance.  That's not an age thing, but just not having the top player mentality to make a difference when they can.

 

Confident that Rodgers will sort it out but as always, he's making a silk's purse out of a sow's ear. 

[RedKnight]

Good assessment this.  Thought Morgan Schneiderlin bossed the game and showed Gerrard and Lucas what a top class midfielder looked like - in fairness to Stevie, he was trying too hard towards the end but our real captain today (and best player) was Toure, just like Carra's been our real skipper for the best 10 years.

 

We are mentally weak and lack bottle - see Alberto's fluffed shot or Sterling's pathetic lack of control when he had a real chance.  That's not an age thing, but just not having the top player mentality to make a difference when they can.

 

Confident that Rodgers will sort it out but as always, he's making a silk's purse out of a sow's ear. 

 

I'd agree Toure showed some real leadership as he tried to get things going in the second half despite not having the legs or attacking nous to do so. That sort of commitment doesn't go unnoticed.

[Guest San Don]

Shockingly poor performance and a big reality check for anyone getting carried away with the first 3 wins. To be honest though, if you'd watched those games, today would have been no real surprise because we stopped playing against villa after 35 minutes, didnt play against manchester at all in the second half and surrendered the last 20 minutes against swansea (cant really remember how we played against stoke except 'grinding out' a result springs to mind.

 

We got what we deserved today which was fuck all. Rodgers while handicapped at the loss of Coutinho and suarez really needs to develop a plan B. Why the fuck was Gerrard employed so deep while Coutinho was absent? So what if he cant run box to box for 90 minutes? He's our most creative player out of those available although he didnt have a good game today. But, in my opinion, he should have been in the hole behind sturridge.

 

I dont really see what sterling brings to the table either. I'd rather see Ibe getting a game if Im honest. He's stronger and faster than sterling.

 

We were shockingly outplayed and out fought by southampton. They were first to every ball, pressured our players as soon as we got the ball and looked more like the home team.

 

One final gripe, how the fuck can we have a throw in 10 to 15 metres in their half, and play it deep into our own half and ourselves into trouble giving them a corner from which they scored the winner? Too often today we went backwards when in possession.

[Saintslfc13]

Bizarre deployment, shit game, shit ref.

Sakho is a centerback, if one of our two left footed CB's have to play LB then it should be Agger. Sakho is the more physical of the two and maybe have more pace but is not at all comfortable attacking whereas Agger has done a job for us at left back before and doesn't mind having the ball at his feet. When does Cissokho get back anyway?

First half we looked way better than in the second but still wasn't good enough. One thing I don't get though is the Lucas criticism, second half sure you can pick a man and chastise him except Mignolet but if the first half I thought Lucas was great at his job. Broke up play well, covered the defense, and had composure on the ball. Even in the second he was still tracking back and was probably our most composed midfielder, at least until Henderson went to rightback, which makes him a defender anyway.

Aspas I think tries to be too cute at times, for example his little flicks into space without recognizing that the player he expects to get on the end of it isn't even looking for that. He definitely needs to hit the gym but perhaps more importantly needs to develop an understanding with his teammates.

Alberto was guilty of the same thing for me but his time on the pitch wasn't a exactly lot to judge him on. I thought maybe he'd get a chance to start with Coutinho out but apparently that wasn't in Rodgers plans.

 

Sterling is another one who needs to hit the gym, but for me his lack of composure is the most damning thing. I know he's still very young but he showed a lot better at the start of last season whereas too many times today he was rushing himself and it lead to bad passes and losing the ball. If we had depth then I'd be in favor of loaning him out to get more first team starts under his belt.

Rodgers needs to sort out whatever is causing the second half dips though. I don't know if it's a tactical thing or he's just running them too hard in training but it's the negative of the season so far and needs to be stopped.

The referee was terrible, missed a clear pen for us as well as at least three free kicks we should have had. The only card of the game was for time wasting? Fuck off. As long as referees continue to allow that the game plan against us will be press them hard and then kick them if they start to beat you. We've already had it result in a draw (though that result could have stayed the same) and the loss of one of our best players for 6 weeks when Williams took Coutinho down at Swansea. That should have been a red and there should have been at least 3 Southampton yellows in this game.

[SpeedyG]

Bizarre deployment, shit game, shit ref.

 

One thing I don't get though is the Lucas criticism, second half sure you can pick a man and chastise him except Mignolet but if the first half I thought Lucas was great at his job. Broke up play well, covered the defense, and had composure on the ball. Even in the second he was still tracking back and was probably our most composed midfielder, at least until Henderson went to rightback, which makes him a defender anyway.

 

Easily explained.  Lucas like Alonso, Lampard, Scholes, Hargreaves, etc isn't good enough to form a solid, balanced central midfield partnership with Gerrard.  He does what he's good at, but that's not enough to make the partnership successful. 

 

Rodgers really needs to do something about this.

[Megadrive Man]

Excellent post Red Knight.

 

The most worrying thing is that it's the second time this year we have been outplayed by Southampton.

 

These sort of clubs are catching up with us. Southampton are spending the same sort of money we are on transfers now.

 

Looking at our bench today was depressing. Yes I know Suarez and Coutinho missing is a huge loss, but mainly because we have wasted money on the likes of Aspas and llori. llori may turn out to be great for us but do we really need him right now? Aspas may have looked decent at Celta Vigo but this is a completely different level. We need proven quality players. 

[the walsh]

the team had no direction and again, rodgers hasnt got a plan b let,s be honest we dont look any better this year than last aspas looks awful and sterling seem,s to be going backwards were was the pressing in the second half gerrard should have played up along side sturridge the next two league game,s simply has to yield 6 points but there is glaring weakness in the team which where not adressed in the summer.

[Phoenix]

There is an obvious elephant in the room.  Will be interesting to see whether Rodgers deals with it.

[SpeedyG]

There is an obvious elephant in the room.  Will be interesting to see whether Rodgers deals with it.

 

Obvious elephant might trample his ass.  So probably not.

[Jairzinho]

4-2-3-1 please. .

 

With Henderson and Lucas as the two deepest midfielders. Please.

 

Gerrard. Further. Up. The. Fucking. Pitch.

[Code]

There is an obvious elephant in the room.  Will be interesting to see whether Rodgers deals with it.

 

Elephant or Brazilian turtle?

[Saintslfc13]

Easily explained. Lucas like Alonso, Lampard, Scholes, Hargreaves, etc isn't good enough to form a solid, balanced central midfield partnership with Gerrard. He does what he's good at, but that's not enough to make the partnership successful.

 

Rodgers really needs to do something about this.

Didn't mean to rep you, thought that might have been the quote button on the mobile version. That said I see you what your saying but for me it seems as though it's a bit illogical. Lucas done his job well, especially in the first half, while the others didn't but it's still Lucas' fault? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

While I think Gerrard and Lucas has worked well at times, I'd prefer to start Gerrard more advanced, and put Henderson next to Lucas. Gerrard doesn't have the legs anymore to go box to box for the full 90 but he doesn't need them to be a playmaker from an advanced role and chip in with a few goals. I don't doubt Gerrard's ability to tame himself and be more disciplined and patient in the deeper role as he's shown he can do it when we're attacking well as a unit. The problem arises when things aren't going our way and he starts trying too hard to make an attacking impact from that position. That isn't wholly bad but given his age and our second half woes he's usually knackered by the time it starts happening so it comes less in the form of the driving runs with the ball of his youth and more from long balls to players that often times either don't get to them or can't control them if they do. For these reasons he should be starting in a free role behind the attack, especially given Coutinho's absence*.

 

I also think that, no matter anyone's personal opinion on Lucas the sad truth of the matter is that we need to start searching for a player capable of taking Gerrard's place over the next 3 years, even if we replace Lucas. Maybe that Rossiter at the academy is the second coming but I've not seen more than a few YouTube clips of him and I've not seen anyone who can pay attention to the academy players make the comparison.

 

* - You can also argue that Coutinho is the essential cog that makes a Gerrard and Lucas partnership capable of working. He's smart, has the vision, pace, and ability to dribble or pass through the opposition and also provides an outlet for both of them to go play it forward. Perhaps Suarez can offer the same for now and we don't need to have this conversation for a while.

[TheHowieLama]

Elephant or Brazilian turtle?

 

Both.

 

That said, Lucas flew by Agger in pursuit of Lallana in the second half.

[dennis tooth]

Rodgers prepares his tactics earlier today

[Nightcat]

4-2-3-1 please. .

 

 

Indeed, I think the system is one of our main problems. I don't think that 4-3-3 suits any of our players. Even Allen. who was supposedly used to this system at Swansea, looked awful in a midfield of three alongside Gerrard and Lucas.

 

4-2-3-1 for me too.

[TheHowieLama]

Was 4231 today.