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Rise of the far right in Europe.

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Listened to this Guardian Podcast before :

 

Guardian Focus Podcast: Examining the British far right | World news | guardian.co.uk

 

What drove Anders Breivik to unspeakable depths of mass murder? His lawyer says he is insane. He says he killed to halt the "Islamisation of Europe".

 

He also claimed to have links to the far right in the UK, through contacts

with the English Defence League. That was enough to provoke David Cameron into demanding from the security services a review of the far right in Britain.

 

Hugh Muir takes a snapshot of the far right, with the help of Matthew Goodwin the author of New British Fascism: Rise of the British National Party; Matthew Taylor, who has written extensively for the Guardian on the far right; and Dan Hodges, who works with the anti fascist organisation Searchlight.

 

We'll consider those who seek gains through the political system, those who rely on intimidation and violence, and we'll also visit the communities they see as ripe for conflict and exploitation.

 

Hugh visits Tower Hamlets in east London to assess the mood ahead of the EDL march, and Martin Wainwright visits Stoke-on-Trent to find out if the BNP can still count on support there.

 

In England the far right seem a bit of a joke, I can't ever see the BNP or EDL taking off seriously. But in the likes of France and the Netherlands, it looks like it is gathering more support. And unlike Nick Griffin, I get the impression a lot of people in, say, France see the likes of Marine Le Pen as a credible politician.

 

So, what do you think of it then? Where is it going to end? Will we see another openly fascist country in Europe anytime soon?

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You would hope not after last time, but we seem to be heading into the kind of economic conditions where fascism flourishes, and muslims seem to be the new bogeyman instead of the Jews. I'm not so complacent about the prospect as I used to be, put it that way.

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You would hope not after last time, but we seem to be heading into the kind of economic conditions where fascism flourishes, and muslims seem to be the new bogeyman instead of the Jews. I'm not so complacent about the prospect as I used to be, put it that way.

 

That is pretty much how I see it. 5 years ago I would have said no chance. Now, with the cuts starting to hit everywhere, people need someone to blame.

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Hungary worries me a bit. A year ago they kicked out the ridiculously corrupt socialist govt and replaced it with Viktor Orban, a right-wing populist. Orban started as a liberal back when the Berlin Wall came down but has progressively moved to the right.

He has a huge majority & there is lttle in the way of liberal or centrist parties so the only real opposition is the washed-up socialist party. Orban's policies play on nationalistic pride. He has kicked the IMF out of Hungary & declared that they will sort out their own economic problems - problem being that they sold practically everything to overseas investors after communism and no longer have means of production to do it with. There has been a gradual rise of isolationism in the country. There is still resentment over the Trianon treaty in 1920 when Hungary lost two thirds of it's lands. They resent a number of their neighbours & believe that they should still own the land. Tensions are particularly high with Slovakia - Slovaks are our Slaves is a popular football banner.

Over the last few years a group called the Hungarian Guard have surfaced. They wear uniforms remarkably similar to the Arrow Cross (2nd world war nazi party) and their past-times include attacking Gay Pride marches with acid-filled eggs, beating up Roma communities & anti-semitism. Orban claims he is against them but seems remarkably tolerant & a background level of anti-semitism is considered quite acceptable amongst the middle-class.

At the moment Orban is just about acceptably conservative but given the poor economic environment & rise of nationalism there are fears that he will start moving more to the right. He may possibly be laying the ground work for fascism to rise there

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Hungary worries me a bit. A year ago they kicked out the ridiculously corrupt socialist govt and replaced it with Viktor Orban, a right-wing populist. Orban started as a liberal back when the Berlin Wall came down but has progressively moved to the right.

He has a huge majority & there is lttle in the way of liberal or centrist parties so the only real opposition is the washed-up socialist party. Orban's policies play on nationalistic pride. He has kicked the IMF out of Hungary & declared that they will sort out their own economic problems - problem being that they sold practically everything to overseas investors after communism and no longer have means of production to do it with. There has been a gradual rise of isolationism in the country. There is still resentment over the Trianon treaty in 1920 when Hungary lost two thirds of it's lands. They resent a number of their neighbours & believe that they should still own the land. Tensions are particularly high with Slovakia - Slovaks are our Slaves is a popular football banner.

Over the last few years a group called the Hungarian Guard have surfaced. They wear uniforms remarkably similar to the Arrow Cross (2nd world war nazi party) and their past-times include attacking Gay Pride marches with acid-filled eggs, beating up Roma communities & anti-semitism. Orban claims he is against them but seems remarkably tolerant & a background level of anti-semitism is considered quite acceptable amongst the middle-class.

At the moment Orban is just about acceptably conservative but given the poor economic environment & rise of nationalism there are fears that he will start moving more to the right. He may possibly be laying the ground work for fascism to rise there

 

Interesting that mate, and something I wasn't aware of. I'll have a little look into that. Repped.

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Hungary worries me a bit. A year ago they kicked out the ridiculously corrupt socialist govt and replaced it with Viktor Orban, a right-wing populist. Orban started as a liberal back when the Berlin Wall came down but has progressively moved to the right.

He has a huge majority & there is lttle in the way of liberal or centrist parties so the only real opposition is the washed-up socialist party. Orban's policies play on nationalistic pride. He has kicked the IMF out of Hungary & declared that they will sort out their own economic problems - problem being that they sold practically everything to overseas investors after communism and no longer have means of production to do it with. There has been a gradual rise of isolationism in the country. There is still resentment over the Trianon treaty in 1920 when Hungary lost two thirds of it's lands. They resent a number of their neighbours & believe that they should still own the land. Tensions are particularly high with Slovakia - Slovaks are our Slaves is a popular football banner.

Don't really see much wrong here, apart from their football banners. The IMF are an evil organisation that has countless countries enslaved to them. Nothing wrong with nationalistic pride either.

Over the last few years a group called the Hungarian Guard have surfaced. They wear uniforms remarkably similar to the Arrow Cross (2nd world war nazi party) and their past-times include attacking Gay Pride marches with acid-filled eggs, beating up Roma communities & anti-semitism.

This is not good.

At the moment Orban is just about acceptably conservative but given the poor economic environment & rise of nationalism there are fears that he will start moving more to the right. He may possibly be laying the ground work for fascism to rise there

I think you're overreacting there.

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What metrics are you using here? Is there a sliding scale? What is the least racist place to live?

North America? Maybe South America. Europe is pretty tolerant compared to most places though. And that's most likely the reason why the fascists are on the rise in Europe. Our tolerance allows groups like this to emerge, and at the same time it's this same tolerance for freedom, religion, multiculturalism etc. that feeds the rise of the fascists.

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North America? Maybe South America. Europe is pretty tolerant compared to most places though. And that's most likely the reason why the fascists are on the rise in Europe. Our tolerance allows groups like this to emerge, and at the same time it's this same tolerance for freedom, religion, multiculturalism etc. that feeds the rise of the fascists.

 

Interesting. So what lessons can we learn from North America?

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Sloan - possibly over-reacting but there's a lot of concern over Orban. In 12 months he has taken over a number of independent institutions to prevent opposition & criticism - the most controversial being the introduction of the Media Council who have effectively banned a free press. The EU have described his laws as being illegal but he's not backing down. He's also forced through a new political constitution without allowing effective time for debate. If Hungary applied for EU membership now, they would fail on grounds of democracy. Orban is often described as Central Europe's Putin due to his tendency towards totalitarianism.

 

His relationship with the far right is concerning. He will express disapproval but not act. Recently a member of the Jobbik party (similar to France NF but more extreme & currently Hungary's 3rd largest party) started wearing a banned nationalist uniform to Parliament, reminiscent of Nazi uniforms. Despite criticism Orban will not act. He is also close friends & regularly photographed with Zsolt Bayer - a particularly unpleasant former political colleague & journalist who recently expressed regret that every Jew in Hungary wasn't buried in mass graves during the 1920's pogroms.

 

At the last election Orban's party gained a landslide and got the key two-thirds majority that is needed in Hungary's parliament. He is unlikely to get it again at the next election and is almost certain to enter into a coalition with Jobbik as the only other option will be the left-wing

 

So we've got a right-wing bloke who believes in & is laying the groundwork for nationalist totalitarianism likely to go into coalition with a far right party. A lot of people are very worried.

 

Bit of background info on his likely future partners

Rise of Hungary's far-Right Jobbik party stirs disturbing echoes of the 1940s - Telegraph

Jobbik: Meet the BNP's fascist friends in Hungary - Times Online

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Number of good articles here. Some optimistic but there's definitely a growing concern there. Worries me because I want to go back & live there permanently in the next couple of years

Viktor Orban | Economist - World News, Politics, Economics, Business & Finance

 

You got family/business interests in Hungary Pesti? I must admit, it isn't a place I've ever fancied visiting.

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Maybe someone with more knowledge on these matters could shed more light, but my brother in law been living in Germany for about 13 years now. Lives in Dresden, the old east part, and has said the there is a huge element of the far right and seems to be getting bigger.

Massive contempt for the old West Germany. When we went over, quite a few we met had only ever known the old Communist regime, and although were glad it had gone, were not exactly bowled over by Government since the wall came down.

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Guest barralad

As far as the racist element of right wing politics go,I live in a town that is lacking in ethnic diversity.

As a child I never had either of my parents say anything remotely racist.

As a result I am neutral,in as much as I think an arsehole is an arsehole whatever colour skin or religion they have/are.

That's not to say the people in my town are so tolerant.In fact where I work there are too many that jump on the racist bandwagon and find it acceptable to use "paki","nigger"

in normal conversation.

Granted,most of them are S** and Daily Mail readers who are swayed by supposed public opinion without regard for logic or facts.

Immigration is undoubtedly an issue in this country.On the one hand some say that immigrants are lazy have 12 kids and live off the state.The same people complain that"they" take all "our" jobs,what the fuck!!.

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You got family/business interests in Hungary Pesti? I must admit, it isn't a place I've ever fancied visiting.

 

I recently returned from living & working out there for 3 years & my missus is Hungarian so still go over there a lot. I loved my time out there and want to settle there permanently in a few years time. Hungary's been politically & economically screwed for probably the last 10 years but with the previous socialist government you kind of knew where you stood - they were basically corrupt thieves but you could work around them. Orban is generating a lot of uncertainty over the future as no one is really sure where he's likely to go. His "windfall" taxes on foreign investment have made the ex-pat community nervous & some of the larger companies (GE, HP, IBM etc) are considering jumping ship to the surrounding countries for stability. All this doesn't make it easier for me to get back there

 

Having said that, Budapest is a beautiful city and I'd highly recommend a long weekend visit there, particularly in the summer. The cafe's, bars, nightclubs & spas are fantastic. The architecture is similar to the Viennese Habsburg era &, if you're interested, the history is fascinating. It's also pretty cheap as they haven't joined the euro and the currency isn't doing that well so it's less expensive than it was 5 years ago (can't say that about many European city breaks)

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It just goes to show the dangers of ignoring the people at the bottom of the pyramid, whether that be elements of an individual country, or an entire 'smaller' country itself. The more people feel maginalised - which they have been feeling long before the credit crunch started in terms of mass immigration and feelings of powerlessness over jobs, living conditions etc - the more they will turn inward to what they know, and the more they will be susceptible to people telling them what they want to hear.

 

Things have moved extremely fast in the last few years. Expansion of the EU and mass migration was driven by economics rather than by a genuine desire of the people, economic migration, lack of quality jobs etc. People are at their most irrational when they're afraid.

 

I'd be wary of lumping the term fascism in with anti-immigration though, they're not mutually dependent, and in some ways our own system already has elements of fascism, economic fascism with a more friendly face, but call it what you will - it is essentially the centralisation of power and wealth in an ever shrinking elite, and the increase in powerlessness among the masses. That's fascism the way i define it.

 

Traditional fascism or anti-immigration parties will never gain power in the UK or USA mainly because it's not profitable. Far fight shifts come from above and not from below. And that won't happen here as long as the elite have something to gain by being balls deep in globalisation.

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I'm astonished at the popularity of the EDL. Look at their members - brainless, skinheaded morons. The new National Front. They've overtaken the BNP as Britain's number 1 right wing/fascist organisation but without the smarmy, cuddly appearance that Griffin and co have been trying to develop. The EDL are thugs pure and simple and they don't try to hide it yet they're attracting a lot of supporters which I find disturbing. They're appealing to the lowest dregs in society, uneducated, jobless, Sun-reading chav tossers and it's a little scary knowing just how many of these undesirables truly exist in this country.

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I think that's a bit of a loose definition of fascism Section. It normally includes some element of transforming society by eliminating social underclasses, and a reliance on violence and warfare to ensure dominance of the ruling elite.

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Maybe someone with more knowledge on these matters could shed more light, but my brother in law been living in Germany for about 13 years now. Lives in Dresden, the old east part, and has said the there is a huge element of the far right and seems to be getting bigger.

Massive contempt for the old West Germany. When we went over, quite a few we met had only ever known the old Communist regime, and although were glad it had gone, were not exactly bowled over by Government since the wall came down.

 

I've found a similar attitude through friends I visit in the former communist East Berlin.

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Since I started this thread things have definitely got a bit more sinister in Europe.

 

What good are protests in Greece and Italy going to do when the people in charge don't answer to them? Saw this before in The Guardian about the new cabinet in Italy :

 

The boss of Italy's biggest retail bank, Corrado Passera, has agreed to handle the industry and infrastructure brief.

 

Wonder where we will be in a couple of years?

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Inside the House Of Representatives, either side of the speaking rostrum, you will see a Fascii with Hatchets; most people say that these symbols go back to Rome, but it's also true that they are identical to the symbols used by both Hitler and Mussollini at their great speech gatherings. At the very least, in terms of what those symbols have come to stand for, it is bad taste.

 

I also happen to think its a bit wierd that over the years, both the US Military and UN Troops have adopted the Weimacht style Helmet circa 1944-45.

 

Call me paranoid.

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