Has Lucas improved enough to warrant him being a first team regular?

[piscinin]

Now were talking.

 

It's true though, sometimes I see a little hesitancy in his passing, and the balls can be a bit underhit. Not to the extent that he loses possession, but opportunities for penetrating passes can slip by. Perhaps switching to DM has forced him to think more before acting.

 

Yeah I agree, it's more than just position though, I think it's as much as a result of his footballing philosophy being out of sync. Sometimes you get the sense of an Abba fan being dropped into the middle of a performance of 'The Rite of Spring'.

 

Sod cherish the ball, it's a carra hoof, a Stevie hollywood, bigger, faster stronger players running around in random patterns. Where's the rhythm of the continuous 1yd movement of the brazillian teams to key off of and carry you along?

 

And to top it all his stock in trade moves don't work. The full back is on his heels instead of the front foot. The forward can't control the 40yd bullet pass that a Brazilian would kill, spin and take into the box without a thought.

 

So many problems to solve, in non-intuitive ways and in real time. Toughie.

[Hugo Sanjeev]

Yeah I agree, it's more than just position though, I think it's as much as a result of his footballing philosophy being out of sync. Sometimes you get the sense of an Abba fan being dropped into the middle of a performance of 'The Rite of Spring'.

 

Sod cherish the ball, it's a carra hoof, a Stevie hollywood, bigger, faster stronger players running around in random patterns. Where's the rhythm of the continuous 1yd movement of the brazillian teams to key off of and carry you along?

 

And to top it all his stock in trade moves don't work. The full back is on his heels instead of the front foot. The forward can't control the 40yd bullet pass that a Brazilian would kill, spin and take into the box without a thought.

 

So many problems to solve, in non-intuitive ways and in real time. Toughie.

 

Good post mate.

 

As an AM, where he was establishing himself, he scored 4 goals/38 games for Gremio (I'm sure a lot of substitute appearances), and 4/9 for the Brazilian U20 team. Not bad stats for a youngster; in the conditions you described and the manner of play you touched upon. I think he won young player of the year in Brazil playing as an AM. Totally unfair on a young lad to then put him in a totally different position, when he already has to acclimatise to a whole new environment and league.

 

Football journalist Tim Vickery, who has got good knowledge of S American football and has got intelligent thoughts on the game, generally, described him as a marauding AM type, who'd have obvious challenges in the PL,

was totally flabbergasted at him being deployed in the DM role.

 

Probably not a very accurate analogy, just a side note; the great Morientes didn't perform for LFC in the PL, the way he'd done for R Madrid in La Liga.

And He's ability and achievements are beyond reproach, and he had more natural talent than Lucas. Just as you highlighted other factors than just the players individual ability ,in isolation, come into play. Even more so when he is being asked to play in a different, and intrinsically, unnatural position.

[piscinin]

Good post mate.

 

As an AM, where he was establishing himself, he scored 4 goals/38 games for Gremio (I'm sure a lot of substitute appearances), and 4/9 for the Brazilian U20 team. Not bad stats for a youngster; in the conditions you described and the manner of play you touched upon. I think he won young player of the year in Brazil playing as an AM. Totally unfair on a young lad to then put him in a totally different position, when he already has to acclimatise to a whole new environment and league.

 

That would be this Lucas right?

 

EYqKzNlxclw

 

Notice the arrogance and confidence. That's gone, alas. Hopefully, he'll get it back.

 

Football journalist Tim Vickery, who has got good knowledge of S American football and has got intelligent thoughts on the game, generally, described him as a marauding AM type, who'd have obvious challenges in the PL,

was totally flabbergasted at him being deployed in the DM role.

 

Probably not a very accurate analogy, just a side note; the great Morientes didn't perform for LFC in the PL, the way he'd done for R Madrid in La Liga.

And He's ability and achievements are beyond reproach. Just as you highlighted other factors than just the players individual ability ,in isolation, come into play. Even more so when he is being asked to play in a different, and intrinsically, unnatural position.

 

Vickery also said a year or two after Lucas arrived. Too timid. And I think that's still a tag he labors under. Moreso mentally than physically.

 

BTW From bits and pieces I've read I get the impression that Lucas was a Rafa project to make a total footballer.

[Jose Jones]

Yeah he is still a bit too timid. Doesn't take on enough responsibility still for me (to warrant the first team regular tag).

Hopefully that will improve as he gains confidence after this season of general acceptance.

[Hugo Sanjeev]

That would be this Lucas right?

 

EYqKzNlxclw

 

Notice the arrogance and confidence. That's gone, alas. Hopefully, he'll get it back.

 

 

 

Vickery also said a year or two after Lucas arrived. Too timid. And I think that's still a tag he labors under. Moreso mentally than physically.

 

BTW From bits and pieces I've read I get the impression that Lucas was a Rafa project to make a total footballer.

 

On the timid point, and I think it's a fair one, 18 yr old Shelvey is more confident and brash on the pitch.

 

If Kenny is appointed perm manager and he has ample money to spend; where would you stand?:

 

a)Keep him in first 11 as DM (on the assumption that G & Meir will be the

more advanced Ms)

 

b)Keep him as a squad player to cover DM & AM

 

c)For as much for his own career, sell him if a good offer came in

[KopOut]

'Regular' could mean once every three months - frequent is something else entirely . Yes, Lucas deserves to play as and when kenny finds a use for him as part of the squad, which hopefully means frequently and regularly imo.

[piscinin]

Yeah he is still a bit too timid. Doesn't take on enough responsibility still for me (to warrant the first team regular tag).

Hopefully that will improve as he gains confidence after this season of general acceptance.

 

Yeah, I get the impression he's the type that needs to be given responsibility; not the type that will just walk into the room and take it. There's no doubt he's been the junior partner, the odd-job man in all his partnerships so far and he seems OK living in that comfort zone. He definitely needs easing out of it.

 

I long for the day he runs up to Carragher and yells, "Give me the fucking ball twat" because that'll show he's finally worked it out.

[KopOut]

On the timid point, and I think it's a fair one, 18 yr old Shelvey is more confident and brash on the pitch.

 

If Kenny is appointed perm manager and he has ample money to spend; where would you stand?:

 

a)Keep him in first 11 as DM (on the assumption that G & Meir will be the

more advanced Ms)

 

b)Keep him as a squad player to cover DM & AM

 

c)For as much for his own career, sell him if a good offer came in

 

Unfortunately, Shelvey is out for three months. :(

[Hugo Sanjeev]

Unfortunately, Shelvey is out for three months. :(

 

Yep, was just a general point mate. Just on the mental side, I like how Shelvey is prepared to take responsibility, demands the ball and isn't afraid to try things; even if he gets an earful from the more experienced teammates!

[piscinin]

On the timid point, and I think it's a fair one, 18 yr old Shelvey is more confident and brash on the pitch.

 

If Kenny is appointed perm manager and he has ample money to spend; where would you stand?:

 

a)Keep him in first 11 as DM (on the assumption that G & Meir will be the

more advanced Ms)

 

b)Keep him as a squad player to cover DM & AM

 

c)For as much for his own career, sell him if a good offer came in

 

I'd give him every chance to succeed. Although if the interviews with Neymar are correct he's already been sounding out alternative teams.

[smilezzz]

um, say what?

 

Barcelona Target Brazil Under-20 Face Neymar and Lucas | Livefootball4u

[Benitaur]

I don't know if you guys have realised this, but under Kenny, Lucas is the main outlet the defence passes to, the way Alonso used to be.

 

This type of player was missing last season when Alonso left, and it was glaring as Mascherano could not play this role effectively

 

You remove Lucas, you get Carra hoofing the ball, or Agger or Skrtel trying to dribble out of defense (which is ok once in a while, but not all the time)

 

BTW, a young, talented midfielder who cut his teeth playing next to Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano and Meireles? Thats quite some training there.

[piscinin]

I don't know if you guys have realised this, but under Kenny, Lucas is the main outlet the defence passes to, the way Alonso used to be.

 

This type of player was missing last season when Alonso left, and it was glaring as Mascherano could not play this role effectively

 

You remove Lucas, you get Carra hoofing the ball, or Agger or Skrtel trying to dribble out of defense (which is ok once in a while, but not all the time)

 

BTW, a young, talented midfielder who cut his teeth playing next to Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano and Meireles? Thats quite some training there.

 

Gerrard has been dropping back and getting the ball off of the center backs too. They're mixing it up a bit more than we did with Xabi which is a good thing.

[Dracco]

He certainly has improved by his own standards. But still think he wouldn´t be a regular in any other starting XI in Top 20 European clubs.

 

He is slow, does a lot of mistakes and unnecessary fouls ( like Skrtel) in dangerous areas. And his finishing is worse than Carragher´s.

 

He is playing well, but is very limited. He is good in his own standard but the fact is that having players like Lucas Leiva, Martin Skrtel, Dirk Kuyt or the useless Maxi Rodriguez as starters will never bring Premier League title back to anfield. They are o.k., but nothing more.

[Dracco]

um, say what?

 

Barcelona Target Brazil Under-20 Face Neymar and Lucas | Livefootball4u

 

It´s the worst article I´ve ever read. They write about Under-20 squad member Lucas from Sao Paolo, 18 years of age.

 

And later they refer to him as being Lucas Leiva from Liverpool...What the fuck?

 

Can someone explain it to me? England is not my first language and maybe I am lost somewhere in translation but I am not so sure...

[tenner]

I think he has improved so much that he does indeed desreve to be in the first team.

 

He can tackle, pass, make through balls, bring other players into play...all he needs to do now is chip in with a few goals and he is good as golden.

 

What d'ya think?

 

Yes he has improved and playing ok to stay in the team imo.

[piscinin]

He certainly has improved by his own standards. But still think he wouldn´t be a regular in any other starting XI in Top 20 European clubs.

 

He is slow, does a lot of mistakes and unnecessary fouls ( like Skrtel) in dangerous areas. And his finishing is worse than Carragher´s.

 

He is playing well, but is very limited. He is good in his own standard but the fact is that having players like Lucas Leiva, Martin Skrtel, Dirk Kuyt or the useless Maxi Rodriguez as starters will never bring Premier League title back to anfield. They are o.k., but nothing more.

 

That bandwagon left a long time ago. Get back on the Agger one.

[redsoxs]

It´s the worst article I´ve ever read. They write about Under-20 squad member Lucas from Sao Paolo, 18 years of age.

 

And later they refer to him as being Lucas Leiva from Liverpool...What the fuck?

 

Can someone explain it to me? England is not my first language and maybe I am lost somewhere in translation but I am not so sure...

 

Sao Paolo Lucas.

Sao Paulo Starlet Lucas Hopeful Of Making Brazil's 2014 World Cup Squad - Goal.com

[sybian]

Lucas had a brilliant game against the Chavs.

[MLB]

He certainly has improved by his own standards. But still think he wouldn´t be a regular in any other starting XI in Top 20 European clubs.

 

He is slow, does a lot of mistakes and unnecessary fouls ( like Skrtel) in dangerous areas. And his finishing is worse than Carragher´s.

 

He is playing well, but is very limited. He is good in his own standard but the fact is that having players like Lucas Leiva, Martin Skrtel, Dirk Kuyt or the useless Maxi Rodriguez as starters will never bring Premier League title back to anfield. They are o.k., but nothing more.

 

 

That's how I see it as well. I've actually grown to like Lucas and I think he's a good player. I would definitely try to keep him as long as he continues to show such commitment and improvement. However, I do think we should be looking for someone better in the long term.

[Coro]

However, I do think we should be looking for someone better in the long term.

 

There are no guarantees yet what we have is a player playing well, earning his right to be in that team showing the right sort of attitude and desire.

 

It's not easy to replace that.

[MLB]

There are no guarantees yet what we have is a player playing well, earning his right to be in that team showing the right sort of attitude and desire.

 

It's not easy to replace that.

 

 

I don't necessarily disagree, and for where we are right now Lucas is doing a fine job. If we get back in the CL though, would you want to see him up against the likes of Xavi and Iniesta? That's why I say "in the long term". Assuming we don't miraculously qualify for next year, of course.

[Coro]

I don't necessarily disagree, and for where we are right now Lucas is doing a fine job. If we get back in the CL though, would you want to see him up against the likes of Xavi and Iniesta? That's why I say "in the long term". Assuming we don't miraculously qualify for next year, of course.

 

I think if the team continues to improve to that level and Lucas plays his part, then he will be deserving of the chance to play against the best.

 

Players with his attitude are vital to our chances of progressing.

[ATXRED]

He's earned his place as far as I'm concerned. His improvement has been tremendous, and while he does still give away the occasional silly foul, he's reduced those drastically. I do agree that he can be far to timid at times, and I think more than anything, he needs serious competition for his place in the first 11.

 

Give him someone to compete with for his place, and see how he responds. I don't think Poulson/Aurelio/Spearing are actual competition in that Poulson is obviously not up to snuff, Aurelio is a left back, and Spearing is not a holding/DM in my opinion. He needs to feel like he has to fight for his place, and I'm not so sure he does.

[redsoxs]