Aliens...

[dirty_sanchez]

It's a long, long time since I've seen the original release but I'm 99% sure that in it, Burke never told Ripley that her daughter had died whilst Ripley was in her excessively long hypersleep.*

 

It's a tiny cut - the actual scene with Burke is in the original release but those lines of dialogue are cut from it as I recall. It always baffled me because Ripley's guilt over telling her daughter that she'd be back for her eleventh birthday (if I recall correctly, her daughter died aged sixty-odd two years before Ripley was rescued) puts Ripley's strong maternal, protective instincts towards Newt into context, since they're in part a way for her to assuage her misplaced guilt about her own daughter. It goes to show just how much difference a few lines of dialogue can make to a film.

 

Another daft decision was to cut the shots of the colony before the colonists are sent out to the alien ship. In the original release we never see the colonists alive and so have no idea of the life they led, or the way the colony operated before the attack. Most sci-fi films portray colonies as either scientific or quasi-military operations and that was the mental picture I formed when I saw the original release.

 

The restored scenes in the special edition reveal something much more reminiscent of homesteaders out on the old frontier, with no real separation between family life and colony operations - it makes the colonists themselves seem much more human, serves to draw a contrast between them and the conniving corporate whores at Weyland Yutani who sent them to their deaths and ultimately makes the tragedy that followed seem more poignant.

 

I've assumed Cameron was told to get it under a certain time because it was a relatively long film even with the cuts and had to make some tough choices about what to axe.

 

I could seriously write a book about this film, I've no idea how many times I've watched it over the years but it's definitely over a hundred.

 

 

 

 

*In fact, in the first video release I'm sure all mentions of Ripley's daughter (there weren't many anyway) are cut.

 

Good analysis. I think your reasoning is sound, but I would like to offer another viewpoint. I don't disagree with you, but I can see why the film may have been edited in the way it was.

 

The first film sets the Alien out as a cold killing machine which humans are totally helpless against. Having seen that and then moved onto the second film, it aids the empathy of the audience with Ripley when she's faced with the arrogance and overconfidence of the marines in the face of an adversary that they have severely underestimated. Part of the strength of Aliens' pacing in my opinion is how it builds up the marines and makes the audience think that maybe they have a chance and then totally destroys them and reduces them to being every bit as helpless as the mining ship crew from the first film. They needed to do that in order to not make the aliens into mindless cannon fodder.

 

The first quarter of the film builds the marines up to be well trained, well equipped, and pretty bad ass (besides Gorman of course). The removal of the scenes with the colonist means that the colony is every bit as unknown to us as it is to the marines. It contributes significantly to the tension in the film in my opinion that the audience is taking those steps into the unknown with them.

 

The removal of the scene where Burke tells Ripley that her daughter is dead makes literally no sense at all though. Maybe the director thought that it was a bit contrived to try and link Ripley's maternal instinct to the death of her daughter, but it makes sense to me.

[Sut]

Aliens = 'Nam allegory in space

[Ted]

Aliens > Avatar. By some fucking distance, mind.

[Juniper]

New Aliens vs Predator game's out tomorrow. I can't fucking wait. Have been playing the demo on xbox live and it's great.

 

Nothing DIY wise will happen this weeked.

[Lucky Pierre]

New Aliens vs Predator game's out tomorrow. I can't fucking wait. Have been playing the demo on xbox live and it's great.

 

Nothing DIY wise will happen this weeked.

My PS3 died a few weeks back but I'm getting a replacement tomorrow. Blockbuster shall make some money tomorrow.

[Sut]

New Aliens vs Predator game's out tomorrow. I can't fucking wait. Have been playing the demo on xbox live and it's great.

 

Nothing DIY wise will happen this weeked.

 

Ordered my copy from Amazon yesterday - can't wait.

 

Riise and Sanchez - both have you have done some sterling work in this here thread.

[GOLDMEMBER]

Just watched Avatar last night and it seems a gayer version of Aliens.

[Karl_b]

New Aliens vs Predator game's out tomorrow. I can't fucking wait. Have been playing the demo on xbox live and it's great.

 

Nothing DIY wise will happen this weeked.

 

Sweet, getting me some of that.

[Kobayashi Maru]

Echo what Paul said. IMO, one of the greatest films ever made, and my all time favourite film. Set the standards and action formula for the sci-fi and horror genre, which has been copied by so many filmmakers since. TBF, the franchise was always going to be on a hiding to nothing after Aliens, because it would have been seriously difficult to improve upon and take the story arch further. No matter how many times you watch it, you never get bored.

 

Interesting insight by RR in the thread, subsequently whetting my appetite in getting the graphic novels recommended as well. Cheers RR.

[RoboRiise]

Good analysis. I think your reasoning is sound, but I would like to offer another viewpoint. I don't disagree with you, but I can see why the film may have been edited in the way it was.

 

The first film sets the Alien out as a cold killing machine which humans are totally helpless against. Having seen that and then moved onto the second film, it aids the empathy of the audience with Ripley when she's faced with the arrogance and overconfidence of the marines in the face of an adversary that they have severely underestimated. Part of the strength of Aliens' pacing in my opinion is how it builds up the marines and makes the audience think that maybe they have a chance and then totally destroys them and reduces them to being every bit as helpless as the mining ship crew from the first film. They needed to do that in order to not make the aliens into mindless cannon fodder.

 

The first quarter of the film builds the marines up to be well trained, well equipped, and pretty bad ass (besides Gorman of course). The removal of the scenes with the colonist means that the colony is every bit as unknown to us as it is to the marines. It contributes significantly to the tension in the film in my opinion that the audience is taking those steps into the unknown with them.

 

The removal of the scene where Burke tells Ripley that her daughter is dead makes literally no sense at all though. Maybe the director thought that it was a bit contrived to try and link Ripley's maternal instinct to the death of her daughter, but it makes sense to me.

 

 

Thanks, both for your comments and analysis - I can't argue with any of that either, you've made some very pertinent points.

 

This all serves to highlight one of the reasons it really gets on my tits when people dismiss a movie like Aliens as "just" sci-fi, horror or a barnstorming action flick. Yeah, sure you can watch the film on that level as pure entertainment and it's a perfectly fine experience, it doesn't require any further analysis from the viewer in order to be enjoyable, but if you do like to think about your movies a bit more, there's plently going on under the bonnet as well.

 

Regarding Ripley's daughter, I don't feel that Cameron ever beats the audience over the head with the Newt as surrogate daughter angle anyway - the emotional connection is there for you if you pick up on it, if not the fact that she had a daughter is just a bit of character background to flesh out Ripley's backstory.

 

 

 

Aliens = 'Nam allegory in space

 

 

Also valid and links well with Sanchez's point above about the overconfidence of the technologically superior marines ultimately being bested by an enemy that they expected to overcome with ease. Considering that it was made in 1986, the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan would be an equally valid frame of reference.

Edited February 18, 2010 by RoboRiise

[Paul]

That tag has just reminded me:

 

"Alright people, you know the drill: assholes and elbows."

 

("Hudson! Come here. Come. Here." - just included this bit because I like it; text book way to deal with a stroppy teenager)

 

I know what Apone is implying when he says this (get to fucking work), but what the fuck does it actually mean?

[dirty_sanchez]

Regarding Ripley's daughter, I don't feel that Cameron ever beats the audience over the head with the Newt as surrogate daughter angle anyway - the emotional connection is there for you if you pick up on it, if not the fact that she had a daughter is just a bit of character background to flesh out Ripley's backstory.

 

I can't actually remember, do they specifically mention that Ripley had a daughter at any other point in the first two films? I'm not sure that they do.

 

That tag has just reminded me:

 

"Alright people, you know the drill: assholes and elbows."

 

("Hudson! Come here. Come. Here." - just included this bit because I like it; text book way to deal with a stroppy teenager)

 

I know what Apone is implying when he says this (get to fucking work), but what the fuck does it actually mean?

 

Presumably it's related to the phrase "knowing your arse from your elbow".

[Sut]

I can't actually remember, do they specifically mention that Ripley had a daughter at any other point in the first two films? I'm not sure that they do.

 

 

They don't mention her in the theatrical cut of Aliens. It's added to the Special Edition.

[dirty_sanchez]

They don't mention her in the theatrical cut of Aliens. It's added to the Special Edition.

 

Yeah, but I meant at other points. I'm not sure they mention her family in Alien at all, but I can't remember if she mentions it to Newt later on in Aliens. I'm just trying to remember if it's just that one scene with Burke where it's mentioned and the removal of that scene totally removes the existence of her daughter from the storyline.

[Lucky Pierre]

Yeah, but I meant at other points. I'm not sure they mention her family in Alien at all, but I can't remember if she mentions it to Newt later on in Aliens. I'm just trying to remember if it's just that one scene with Burke where it's mentioned and the removal of that scene totally removes the existence of her daughter from the storyline.

I'm sure she does mention it to Newt, when she's putting Newt to bed. However I think I watched the extended version, so in the original she may not have.

[Sut]

Yeah, but I meant at other points. I'm not sure they mention her family in Alien at all, but I can't remember if she mentions it to Newt later on in Aliens. I'm just trying to remember if it's just that one scene with Burke where it's mentioned and the removal of that scene totally removes the existence of her daughter from the storyline.

 

Don't think it is mate - I'm going to have to watch it now to check.

[Paul]

Presumably it's related to the phrase "knowing your arse from your elbow".

That doesn't fit though - Gorman has given them loads to do in hardly any time so Apone is telling them to get stuck in, isn't he?

[RedKnight]

The "Hudson, come here! Come here!" bit makes me laugh every time. I used to love Aliens when I was a kid, I remember being hugely disappointed with Alien 3 when it came out, and I was 12 at the time. I can remember discussing it with my mates at the time and saying that I thought it was a huge bust killing Newt and Hicks at the start of that movie after having them survive Aliens.

 

Still bought the Mega Drive game though.

[dirty_sanchez]

That doesn't fit though - Gorman has given them loads to do in hardly any time so Apone is telling them to get stuck in, isn't he?

 

Well in that case I have no idea!

[Sut]

The new game's ace.

[Guest The Big Green Bastard]

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[rondeco]

Nobody touch nothin'

[rondeco]

That doesn't fit though - Gorman has given them loads to do in hardly any time so Apone is telling them to get stuck in, isn't he?

 

My take is that assholes and elbows is an instruction for everyone (assholes) in the unit to get to hard work quickly.(The term elbow grease comes to mind.) A shortened version of 'all of you assholes get to work and use some elbow grease!' if you may..

[mudman79]

Hudson ." Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man ? "

Vasquez. " No, have you ? "

[RoboRiise]

I can't actually remember, do they specifically mention that Ripley had a daughter at any other point in the first two films? I'm not sure that they do.

 

 

Not mentioned at all in the original release of Alien, maybe in the restored/extended version which I've only seen a couple of times. In Aliens SE, Ripley tells Newt she had a daughter when she's tucking her up in bed.

 

Edit:

I'm sure she does mention it to Newt, when she's putting Newt to bed. However I think I watched the extended version, so in the original she may not have.

 

So yeah, what Pierre said. Must read threads before posting.

 

All (both) references to Ripley's daughter are removed from the original release of Aliens. The emotional connection is still there with the original release, it just works differently - until SE was released I assumed Ripley was childless, which would fit logically with the long periods spent "working away". Newt therefore becomes the child she never had. I just think the original idea revealed in the special edition works better.

Edited February 19, 2010 by RoboRiise