Rafa- it's time to go

[Red Banjo]

Not watching it. With the exception of Hansen who genuinely seems to retain a real love of this club and want to see us succeed, the rest of them can't wait to kick us when we're down.

 

Well seems he's joined the rest of them tonight. Very disappointed by what he's said. NOTHING said about the 9 or so players we were missing. Blame it on the young Argie. I normally like Hansen but that was wrong.

[dave u]

Anny, this has already been covered, he spent about £10mil on those 2 players, gained £30m for our kingpin, without taking into account what we got back for Keane. Don't want to go down the net spend road but its clear he did not get to spend that Keane money.

 

Apparently the Keane money was used to cover the Riera deal from the previous summer, as we went 'overbudget' to get Riera in. When we sold Keane, it balanced that one out.

 

Thats what is claimed anyway.

[darnells]

Well seems he's joined the rest of them tonight. Very disappointed bt what he's said. NOTHING said about the 9 or so players we were missing. Blame it on the young Argie. I normally like Hansen but that was wrong.

 

Which he backed up with clips - Insua is a poor player and could have done much better for the first and second goals. Plus he spoke about his performances in the last 4 games in which he has been abysmal!

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

Apparently the Keane money was used to cover the Riera deal from the previous summer, as we went 'overbudget' to get Riera in. When we sold Keane, it balanced that one out.

 

Thats what is claimed anyway.

 

And no doubt we were looking to offload Riera to any Spanish team that would take him in the summer.

[George Costanza]

And no doubt we were looking to offload Riera to any Spanish team that would take him in the summer.

 

we should have been because he's shit

[Red Banjo]

Add him to the list of unflushable turds we seem to accumulate. If he was any good - wouldn't Man City have wanted him? This was the mid table/hovering above relegation Man City at that time as well

[Vincent Vega]

Some appalling glory hunters on here. When the going gets tough, the cowards shoot from the hip and shout for the manager's head. He's achieved his target every season he's been here (from the board's point of view, and it's also what would be asked of any new manager) in that we've qualified for the CL in each and every season. This may not be the fans target, but it's the all new Liverpool FC since that limp dick Moores sold the club and any right to want to be amongst the challengers.

[Brodie]

Apparently the Keane money was used to cover the Riera deal from the previous summer, as we went 'overbudget' to get Riera in. When we sold Keane, it balanced that one out.

 

Thats what is claimed anyway.

 

Interesting, I didnt know that, but even so Dave, the money spent over last summer doesnt get close to what came back in, which was my original point a few pages ago, that the there wasnt sufficient investment over the summer, taking into account the players out, to realistically challenge again this year. And that is something Rafa is certainly not responsible for regardless of any selection / tactical errors since.

[Juan Galonso]

Interesting, I didnt know that, but even so Dave, the money spent over last summer doesnt get close to what came back in, which was my original point a few pages ago, that the there wasnt sufficient investment over the summer, taking into account the players out, to realistically challenge again this year. And that is something Rafa is certainly not responsible for regardless of any selection / tactical errors since.

 

An unprecedented new deal for himself and seven players in one summer may have affected things as well to be honest.

[23_Carra_Gold]

Riera, the unflushable turd?

 

Go find the Barca thread from the summer because I'm pretty sure that wasn't the general consensus.

[kopsawyer]

Im in two minds im really pissed off with rafa at the moment,But he loves the club and im sure somewhere in my mind i fill he will get it right.

 

Then i think about the some off the things he does and i get pissed off again.Like playing fucking lucas and voronin ,like subbing benni and torres,and tottally giving up getting anything from the game.Then throwing a 18year old on who has never played a premiership game.

 

We are so reliant on torres because when he goes off we have no one who even looks like a threat up front.Now rafa signed him great.Rafa has no one in his squad as a striker who is anywhere near torres.Rafas fault.And i think rafa knows this hence the reason he took him off wanting to protect him for lyon.

 

But what happened to Rafas saying "one game at a time"fuck knows he gave up today,he has done that before (reading away).

 

Benni looked well pissed off when he was subbed.Has rafa lost the dressing room? Im not sure,just like im not sure what i fill anymore,I love the man but he baffles me sometimes a genius sometimes a fucking liability.

 

If rafa were to go pushed or walked,i would be scared stiff off the cunts upstairs who tried to appoint klinnsman.I would say king kenny is the only man for the job if rafa was to go.I hope we win on weds really do if we dont......

 

Massive game.Ynwa.

[George Costanza]

Some appalling glory hunters on here. When the going gets tough, the cowards shoot from the hip and shout for the manager's head. He's achieved his target every season he's been here (from the board's point of view, and it's also what would be asked of any new manager) in that we've qualified for the CL in each and every season. This may not be the fans target, but it's the all new Liverpool FC since that limp dick Moores sold the club and any right to want to be amongst the challengers.

 

The Americans target is too make as much money as possible. If that meant selling Torres for a £60m profit then they'd do it.

 

You cannot expect fans to look at the financial picture. Its not why they support the club, its not why they follow the club the length & breadth of Europe. The clubs exists to win things, the same as manchester united. profits and money are a byproduct of success. NOT success on its own

[Carra_is_legend]

Some appalling glory hunters on here. When the going gets tough, the cowards shoot from the hip and shout for the manager's head. He's achieved his target every season he's been here (from the board's point of view, and it's also what would be asked of any new manager) in that we've qualified for the CL in each and every season. This may not be the fans target, but it's the all new Liverpool FC since that limp dick Moores sold the club and any right to want to be amongst the challengers.

 

Qualifying for CL has always been a target for us - even under Moores. It was the absolute minimum that the manager had to achieve, even at that time.

 

You could say Rafa has managed to achieve the minimum so far - bar 2005 and 2006 when we won couple of trophies.

[serenejim]

Fed up with hysterical sack Rafa rubbish. I don't believe there is another manager out there who would inprove our situation. Our squad is too thin to compete when we have injuries to our main eleven. Any fantasy manager you may think would improve matters would be very unlikely to come to the club. An annual transfer budget of £20M and warring effin useless owners. A poisoned chalice for anyone. Rafa deserves our support so lets give it to him. The club is under seige from the media at the moment. It's our job to back the managers and the players. It is in the ethos of the club and anyone who doesn't undersstnd this should piss off and support someone else.

[Vincent Vega]

The Americans target is too make as much money as possible. If that meant selling Torres for a £60m profit then they'd do it.

 

You cannot expect fans to look at the financial picture. Its not why they support the club, its not why they follow the club the length & breadth of Europe. The clubs exists to win things, the same as manchester united. profits and money are a byproduct of success. NOT success on its own

 

We have to deal with the card we have been dealt George and the reality is that the Americans are only interested in the guaranteed money that comes with CL qualification and hopefully a sustained run in that competition. It's been said a million times on here that the difference in revenue between finishing first and fourth is not that big a deal. I reckon Rafa took a look at his objectives today and thought we had enough games and time to ensure fourth position regardless of the fact we may lose today's game, but we daren't lose in Lyon and in fact almost certainly have to win if we are to progress in this year's CL. Twit and twat wouldn't have to be on the blower all week to let him know where his priorities lie.

[Brodie]

An unprecedented new deal for himself and seven players in one summer may have affected things as well to be honest.

 

Not really sure when bringing the top players of a club in line with others in their profession, should effect the spending power of a club of our size and stature. Maybe we should pay them less and hope they stay out of misguided loyalty while the owners rake in the cash, or even let them go into the last 2 years of their contracts so they lose value if we end up having to sell them - thats worked well in the past as well.

 

This is genuinely the first time I've heard of any club having to restrict its transfer policy based on improving contracts for existing players, especially a club that is focusing off field on its marketing strategies, with whose improvements should be able to cover any pay rises for the players its basing those marketing strategies on.

[Vincent Vega]

You cannot expect fans to look at the financial picture. Its not why they support the club, its not why they follow the club the length & breadth of Europe. The clubs exists to win things, the same as manchester united. profits and money are a byproduct of success. NOT success on its own

 

Qualifying for CL has always been a target for us - even under Moores. It was the absolute minimum that the manager had to achieve, even at that time.

 

You could say Rafa has managed to achieve the minimum so far - bar 2005 and 2006 when we won couple of trophies.

 

I'm not saying the fans should ever surrender their ambition and expectations, it's what has defined us a club since Shankly arrived. A little understanding of the environment the manager currently has to operate in wouldn't go amiss though.

[Juan Galonso]

Not really sure when bringing the top players of a club in line with others in their profession, should effect the spending power of a club of our size and stature. Maybe we should pay them less and hope they stay out of misguided loyalty while the owners rake in the cash, or even let them go into the last 2 years of their contracts so they lose value if we end up having to sell them - thats worked well in the past as well.

 

This is genuinely the first time I've heard of any club having to restrict its transfer policy based on improving contracts for existing players, especially a club that is focusing off field on its marketing strategies, with whose improvements should be able to cover any pay rises for the players its basing those marketing strategies on.

 

You know they say Football Manager game is true to life for its in-depth attention to detail. In some cases it really is.

 

When you start a new game you get to choose whether to have have a higher transfer budget and lower wage budget or vice versa. The two things are, and always have been inextricably linked.

 

We just had an unprecented summer where we gave so many new contracts at once which with all the wage rises took a large portion out of the budget as it was all our top players who got the deals so it had a knock on effect overall.

[Carra_is_legend]

I'm not saying the fans should ever surrender their ambition and expectations, it's what has defined us a club since Shankly arrived. A little understanding of the environment the manager currently has to operate in wouldn't go amiss though.

 

Of course not. However, if Rafa continues to achieve the top 4 finish, you could easily say that he is only achieving the bare minimum. Owners may be happy with it but the fans won't be.

 

We can't live for ever thinking about our debts. The team finished 4 points behind last season but without a trophy. Minority of the fans were still unhappy that we didn't win anything but the majority's hope were revived by our finish. Most of them said that was a good season. Even outsiders say LFC fans are the most knowledgeable and while that may not be 100% fact, one thing is sure though - we are not 100% stupid.

 

Speaking of the environment the manager is working under - well, he SIGNED his contract. He could have walked out but he didn't. Who are we to argue about the environment when Rafa himself is happy to work in the same environment?

[George Costanza]

We have to deal with the card we have been dealt George and the reality is that the Americans are only interested in the guaranteed money that comes with CL qualification and hopefully a sustained run in that competition. It's been said a million times on here that the difference in revenue between finishing first and fourth is not that big a deal. I reckon Rafa took a look at his objectives today and thought we had enough games and time to ensure fourth position regardless of the fact we may lose today's game, but we daren't lose in Lyon and in fact almost certainly have to win if we are to progress in this year's CL. Twit and twat wouldn't have to be on the blower all week to let him know where his priorities lie.

 

I totally agree VV, however we should not be in a position so soon to have to choose between the League & CL. It should be both, we should be like Arsenal, United and Chelsea aiming to win both.

 

Rafa has had his hands somewhat tied this summer, but so have Fergie and Wenger. So far they've managed the situation far better.

 

Like Houllier in 03/04 the excuses are waring thin. IMo he has had enough time and money to create a squad (not just a first XI) to compete on more than one front.

[Vulmea]

Of course not. However, if Rafa continues to achieve the top 4 finish, you could easily say that he is only achieving the bare minimum. Owners may be happy with it but the fans won't be.

 

We can't live for ever thinking about our debts. The team finished 4 points behind last season but without a trophy. Minority of the fans were still unhappy that we didn't win anything but the majority's hope were revived by our finish. Most of them said that was a good season. Even outsiders say LFC fans are the most knowledgeable and while that may not be 100% fact, one thing is sure though - we are not 100% stupid.

 

Speaking of the environment the manager is working under - well, he SIGNED his contract. He could have walked out but he didn't. Who are we to argue about the environment when Rafa himself is happy to work in the same environment?

 

Ridiculous

 

Because rafa didn't walk he's happy? What if he actually wants the club to succeed and thinks its his best chance or he's started a job and owes it to himself and us to finish it - what if he's actually a decnt bloke trying to do the decent thing?

 

 

the fact you are bored with the debt, that fact you dont want to accept we can't afford the best players or at least enough of them - that we are 3rd fourth, even fifth favourites for the title - yet some fans 'expect' us to win it - get fuckin real - hope to win it, support us to win it but dont ignore bleedin reality -

 

most knowledgable fans my arse - most deluded after Newcastle maybe

 

why should we 'expect' to win the title?

[Carlos Durninio]

why should we 'expect' to win the title?

 

A consistent challenge would be a start. But mainly because we're a massive global club, with great players and a supposed tactical genius for a manager?

 

Lets not have any standards at all though eh. It's much easier to hide behind mediocrity and hysterical hyperbole to prove what a better fan you are.

[Red Banjo]

Ridiculous

 

Because rafa didn't walk he's happy? What if he actually wants the club to succeed and thinks its his best chance or he's started a job and owes it to himself and us to finish it - what if he's actually a decnt bloke trying to do the decent thing?

 

 

the fact you are bored with the debt, that fact you dont want to accept we can't afford the best players or at least enough of them - that we are 3rd fourth, even fifth favourites for the title - yet some fans 'expect' us to win it - get fuckin real - hope to win it, support us to win it but dont ignore bleedin reality -

 

most knowledgable fans my arse - most deluded after Newcastle maybe

 

why should we 'expect' to win the title?

 

 

 

Being the most successful team in this country - you can forgive some fans for wanting a bit more than fighting for 4th every season. Our record affords us the expectation of being at the top.

 

And your calling us deluded because were not happy to finish 3rd and get to a quarter final?

 

Get real mate

[Carra_is_legend]

Ridiculous

 

Because rafa didn't walk he's happy? What if he actually wants the club to succeed and thinks its his best chance or he's started a job and owes it to himself and us to finish it - what if he's actually a decnt bloke trying to do the decent thing?

 

 

the fact you are bored with the debt, that fact you dont want to accept we can't afford the best players or at least enough of them - that we are 3rd fourth, even fifth favourites for the title - yet some fans 'expect' us to win it - get fuckin real - hope to win it, support us to win it but dont ignore bleedin reality -

 

most knowledgable fans my arse - most deluded after Newcastle maybe

 

why should we 'expect' to win the title?

 

Who "expected" us to win it? Stop twisting the arguments.

 

I said the majority of the fans were "happy" that we "challenged" last year. Majority of the fans thought last season was a success, even though we only "challenged" and failed to win a trophy. Deluded, my arse.

 

And who said Rafa is not a decent bloke? He may want to do the best for the club, he may have a burning desire to win things for the club but guess what, it is not happening right now. If I become the LFC manager tomorrow, I will have the same burning ambition inside me but that won't mean I will be the man for the club. And if I make two ridiculous subsitutions after talking about how we should "take the United win to put on a run" and how we "always should think about the next game", I will rightly expect fans to slaughter me for that.

 

And yeah, debt or not, we did buy a £20m player this summer. Our second most expensive signing is it? And he hasn't played a minute in a league game yet.

[Vincent Vega]

Of course not. However, if Rafa continues to achieve the top 4 finish, you could easily say that he is only achieving the bare minimum. Owners may be happy with it but the fans won't be.

 

We can't live for ever thinking about our debts. The team finished 4 points behind last season but without a trophy. Minority of the fans were still unhappy that we didn't win anything but the majority's hope were revived by our finish. Most of them said that was a good season. Even outsiders say LFC fans are the most knowledgeable and while that may not be 100% fact, one thing is sure though - we are not 100% stupid.

 

Speaking of the environment the manager is working under - well, he SIGNED his contract. He could have walked out but he didn't. Who are we to argue about the environment when Rafa himself is happy to work in the same environment?

 

I'm far from convinced that the Yanks spelled out the situation before he signed the contract. Something tells me that Rafa believed there would be more funds available considering we seemed to go to such lengths to line up Tevez and David Silva, when he had to go to the Yanks with a begging bowl just to get Kyrgiakos in.

 

I'm not trying to lower expectation and I was amongst those who thought it ridiculous that we offered Rafa a five year contract extension. The reality is though that he signed that contract and has that deal for the next five years, he works for probably the worst employers possible, the names being mentioned by the glory hunters i mentioned earlier would not dream of tarnishing their reputations with our current board and their piss-take budgets.