Is it racist for a white person to paint their face black/brown for fancy dress?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

The Daily Mail comments for that are balanced.

Do any of them point out that it's more evidence that the whole idea of dividing humans into "races" is, was and ever shall be utter bollocks?

[Kevin D]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/dec/16/the-knowledge-footballer-christmas-parties

 

Finally, there's the Anfield Comedy Club, which has had some rich moments of side-splittery. There was the time that a figure turned up to their fancy-dress party in a Ku Klux Klan outfit, with Steve McMahon on the door. "You can't come in like that. John Barnes is in there," said McMahon, in no way implying that the outfit would have been absolutely fine had Barnes not been at the club. "No," responded the KKK man, whipping off the hood, "he's in here."

[Jairzinho]

2 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Do any of them point out that it's more evidence that the whole idea of dividing humans into "races" is, was and ever shall be utter bollocks?

 

Well, er, not quite...

 

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Why is there still a National Black Policemans Authority? The MoBo music awards?

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Why is the money meant for people with colour?? This world is ridiculous Imagine saying 'sorry, this money is for white people only' the storm that would cause!!

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The difference between this and blacking up is?

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I am a Caucasian and feel increasingly minoritised in this country. However, I do not take offence if called by this name.

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Most of the people I know with cars from motorbility finance are not disabled.

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Can i have money please? Oh no wait I can't because I'm white!

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A stunt that could only be pulled off in PC ridden Britain.

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Where are the funds exclusively for white people

 

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political correctness is the worst thing that has ever happened to this country !

 

[Kevin D]

On 10/30/2018 at 3:22 PM, Numero Veinticinco said:

No. Not by any sensible definition of racism. 

 

Really?

 

Obviously, I know you're aware of the historical context of blackface and minstrel shows. We're not Americans, but at the same time American history and norms are pretty pervasive in our culture. I'm black and it's not something that particularly bothers me, but it has a context that can't be dismissed and asking people to dress up in a non-black face costume seems like a fairly reasonable ask.

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 minutes ago, Kevin D said:

 

Really?

 

Obviously, I know you're aware of the historical context of blackface and minstrel shows. We're not Americans, but at the same time American history and norms are pretty pervasive in our culture. I'm black and it's not something that particularly bothers me, but it has a context that can't be dismissed and asking people to dress up in a non-black face costume seems like a fairly reasonable ask.

It is a reasonable ask. I don't think it's reasonable to call it racism, though. Which is why I said what I said. 

[Kevin D]

1 minute ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

It is a reasonable ask. I don't think it's reasonable to call it racism, though. Which is why I said what I said. 

 

I think the context makes it at least racially charged, no?

[Numero Veinticinco]

13 minutes ago, Kevin D said:

 

I think the context makes it at least racially charged, no?

Context means it could be racist, but it's not inherently racist in my view. If somebody is doing it with the intent to be a racist dickhead, then of course. Otherwise it's no more inherently racist than a black person painting their face white as part of a fancy dress. Which is to say, it isn't. Now, if somebody dresses up as a 'cotton-picking nigger' or a ethnically cleansed white farmer from Zimbabwe, then it's no longer JUST about dressing up for fancy dress. 

[TheHowieLama]

Its not racist -- it is a poor life choice. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Its not racist -- it is a poor life choice. 

Yeah, there's definitely no argument there. Looks fucking daft, too. 

[VladimirIlyich]

As many sensible people realise that is 'likely to cause offence' and 'not a sensible thing to do' doesn't this mean that the people doing it are trying to deliberately cause offence and very likely to be racist,even if they believe they are not?

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, VladimirIlyich said:

As many sensible people realise that is 'likely to cause offence' and 'not a sensible thing to do' doesn't this mean that the people doing it are trying to deliberately cause offence and very likely to be racist,even if they believe they are not?

So you think the lad who wanted to dress up like his idol footballer was trying to deliberately cause offence? Rather than desiring to be more like his hero, he's trying to let him know his place as inferior race... obviously I'm being facetious, but I disagree with the sentiment. People can do it innocently, without even considering it could be offensive because they don't really give a flying fuck about race. Just their idol, El Hadji Diouf.

[VladimirIlyich]

4 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

So you think the lad who wanted to dress up like his idol footballer was trying to deliberately cause offence? Rather than desiring to be more like his hero, he's trying to let him know his place as inferior race... obviously I'm being facetious, but I disagree with the sentiment. People can do it innocently, without even considering it could be offensive because they don't really give a flying fuck about race. Just their idol, El Hadji Diouf.

I think kids no know better but I'd expect the parents to know better. I'd never take El Haj Diouf as the voice of black people either. He is obviously entitled to his opinion but the lad in his case only needed the name on the back of the shirt and crazy hairstyle. Same with the Salah example.

[Section_31]

3 hours ago, Sugar Ape said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/anthony-lennon-my-genes-are-white-but-im-black-v7tmnw7xw

 

Anthony Ekundayo Lennon: my genes are white but I’m black

 

A theatre director who has won funds meant for ‘people of colour’ has admitted his parents and grandparents were all white

 

One of the leading lights in British black theatre was wrestling with the question of what makes a person black last night — after it emerged that he has previously described himself as white.

 

Anthony Ekundayo Lennon has benefited from taxpayer support to aid his development as a black, Asian and minority ethnic (Bame) leader in the arts. But last week some black thespians expressed disquiet that an apparently white man had taken a black person’s place on a Bame scheme.

 

Lennon was named last year as one of four “theatre practitioners of colour” who had been awarded a paid two-year residential traineeship as part of an Arts Council England-funded programme. Recently he was an assistant director on Britain’s first all-black production of Guys and Dolls.

 

The Sunday Times has unearthed an ebook he wrote a decade ago, however, that shows racial identity is not always black and white.

 

Indeed, as he argued in the book: “Everybody on the planet is African. It’s your choice as to whether you accept it.” This contrasted with the account of his heritage he gave in 1990 when he stated: “My parents are white and so are their parents, and so are their parents, and so are their parents.”

 

In the book Photo ID, the blue-eyed thespian describes how he was born Anthony David Lennon in Paddington, west London, in 1965 to white Irish parents. His high cheekbones and curly hair set off gossip that his mother had had an affair, but when his brothers, Vincent and David, developed similar features, it became clear it was a family trait.

 

This did not protect the young Lennon from jibes in the street from people who saw him as mixed race. He says his school caretaker called him “n*****” and threatened to attack him with a dog.

 

Owing partly to the taunts, the boy with the caramel skin had discovered his blackness. He started to wear a Rastafarian hat. “Up until the age of about 13, 14, I hadn’t really thought about it at all,” he later told friends.

 

Academics make a distinction between “racial passing”, when a person of one race or mixed heritage presents themselves as belonging to another racial group, and “pheneticising”, a term coined by the Canadian writer Wayde Compton to shift the focus to the viewer.

 

In phenetics, race is what the onlooker sees. Lennon became what others saw.

He found his love of acting when he was “shoved in a minibus” by his mother and taken to the Cockpit theatre in west London. But as he grew older, he struggled to get white parts. He found success with groups such as the Black Theatre Forum.

 

In 1990 the 24-year-old Lennon appeared in a BBC Everyman drama documentary exploring race called Chilling Out. Viewers were told: “All of us in this programme are actors, but this is not a fiction. All of us are speaking as ourselves, and from our own experience.”

 

Pressed on his identity by black actors in the documentary, he said: “When I’m alone in my bedroom looking in the mirror, thinking about stuff I’ve written down, thinking about my past relationship-wise, pictures on the wall, I think I’m a black man. I’ve not said that to anyone. And I won’t say it outside.”

 

Lennon’s father, Patrick, who died in 1999, did not react well to this self- exploration. “He says to me I’ve got an identity problem, and the sooner I sort myself out, the better,” said Lennon in the film.

 

The actor Lennie James, later to become famous as a star of The Walking Dead, responds in the documentary by accusing Lennon of cultural appropriation.

 

“Sometimes I feel like you are watching me. Watching me to say this equals a black man. Then you’re taking it from me, and sticking it on yourself.”

 

Lennon began to delve deeper into his identity, choosing a new name from an African name book. He became Taharka Ekundayo: Taharka is the name of an Egyptian pharaoh and Ekundayo means “weeping becomes joy”.

 

“I was at a stage in my life where to address myself as Anthony Lennon did not fulfil me; it didn’t seem to allow me to express myself as I saw fit,” he wrote in Photo ID. He added: “Some people call themselves a born-again Christian. Some people call me a born-again African. I prefer to call myself an African born again.”

 

He told an audience in 2012: “Although I’m white, with white parents, I have gone through the struggles of a black man, a black actor.”

 

Lennon’s residential traineeship is part of the Artistic Director Leadership Programme (ADLP) to help Bame creatives. Arts Council England provided a £406,500 grant to a consortium of theatres to “deliver a comprehensive programme of talent development for future Bame leaders”.

 

Lennon started as trainee artistic director at Talawa, a black-led theatre company in Shoreditch, east London. The scheme was advertised as “open to people of colour”. Lennon applied as a “mixed heritage individual”.

 

One black actor said: “When I discovered his background I thought it was unfair that a white man had taken a black person’s place on a Bame scheme.”

 

The consortium that awarded the funding said: “We received 113 applications . . . and 29 were appointed to the ADLP. Talawa were satisfied Anthony was eligible for the opportunity as a result of a relationship with him over a number years, in which he has identified as a mixed-heritage individual.”

 

Arts Council England said: “Talawa raised their wish to support Anthony with us. In responding we took into account the law in relation to race and ethnicity. This is a very unusual case and we do not think it undermines the support we provide to black and minority ethnic people within the theatre sector.”

 

Lennon declined to comment.

 

 

Be interesting to see how people reconcile this type of thing with the trans gender debate.

[Rico1304]

At some point someone has to say ‘hold on a minute’. 

[Rico1304]

3 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I don't get the link you're trying to make to cultural appropriation (whether you think it's a thing or not) with that clip.

So, cultural appropriation is a

bad thing according to the Left. 

 

But a white girl, in a complete face covering, telling the world about Islam is ok? 

 

(Id love to hear her views on apostasy by the way) 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Not sure you're quite getting what cultural appropriation is there Rico.

[Aventus]

If a black guy cracks a joke about me being a robbing scouse bastard, am I allowed to crack a joke about him being a robbing black bastard? 

 

 

[moof]

Jesus fucking Christ...

[Numero Veinticinco]

31 minutes ago, Aventus said:

If a black guy cracks a joke about me being a robbing scouse bastard, am I allowed to crack a joke about him being a robbing black bastard? 

 

 

Yeah, give it a go. Should be fine. No problem at all. Crack on. 

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

On 10/31/2018 at 5:14 AM, aRdja said:

 

I read an article a few months back, around the time Miley Cyrus released her new country album, about black culture appropriation in the music industry. How you have plenty of white pop ‘artists’ like Miley release a couple of rnb-inspired albums, adopt ‘street’ public image,  make a quick buck and then just fuck it off and chase whatever the next trend is... I found myself in agreement with most of the article. Let me see if I can find it. 

Look at the EDM thing in America over the last decade, it’s the same shit as rock and roll appropriating black music in the 50s.

the techno, garage and house scenes in America that kick started all of that shit (along with a liberal dose ok electro kraut rock) had to be regurgitated by predominantly white folk in the UK and sold back to the mass American market via dubstep and whatever other shite genres the young cunts listen to now.

they had Juan Atkins, Marshall Jeffferson, Mike Mills, Mad Mike Banks, Kevin Saunderson, all of the people who inspired people like LiamHowlett, and the Chemicals Brothers, on their fucking doorstep. That’s why Hip shop was such an anomaly, but even then there were a few white bands to help push it through to the suburban white kids. It was possibly more like punk in the way it broke through.

[Section_31]

42 minutes ago, Aventus said:

If a black guy cracks a joke about me being a robbing scouse bastard, am I allowed to crack a joke about him being a robbing black bastard? 

 

 

Scousism isn't a crime. 

 

Three billboards outside Stig's house, Woolybackland

[TheHowieLama]

Vlad -- you are leaving out the obvious. 

 

Actions of a somewhat dim person.

[VladimirIlyich]

24 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Vlad -- you are leaving out the obvious. 

 

Actions of a somewhat dim person.

Racist=Very dim person (well a good deal of the time anyway.)

[Brownie]

13 hours ago, Kloppite said:

That was my point.  If you didn't understand the word and had no idea of its meaning other than it was wrong to call a black person n''''g a court wouldn't allow as an excuse that you didn't feel superior; which in turn means that the definition of the word racism doesn't mean only to feel superior to someone.

I hate to be pedantic mate but that literally is the definition of the word. Whether or not someone is a racist is the debatable bit, not the definition of the word.

 

In your example the court would simply be making a judgement as to whether the offender is actually a racist (and them using that word in a particular context would support that judgement).

 

Actual racists (cunts) see all races other than their own to be inferior. People who “black-up” are not automatically racists.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, rico1304 said:

So, cultural appropriation is a

bad thing according to the Left. 

 

But a white girl, in a complete face covering, telling the world about Islam is ok? 

 

(Id love to hear her views on apostasy by the way) 

I just assumed  (not knowing who she is) that she was Muslim. Scottish Muslims exist.

 

Do you know different?