Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[Numero Veinticinco]

Watching Rico spin out about this stuff is pretty great. 

[Rico1304]

 

[Mudface]

1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

 

I skimmed through the article cited here yesterday, it blithely refers to 'top surgery' rather than what it actually is. Really dangerous.

 

 

[Rico1304]

12 minutes ago, Mudface said:

I skimmed through the article cited here yesterday, it blithely refers to 'top surgery' rather than what it actually is. Really dangerous.

 

 

She also said that if girls can’t play sports theyll kill themselves.  Bbc reported it which is against all kinds of rules. 

[Mudface]

5 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

She also said that if girls can’t play sports theyll kill themselves.  Bbc reported it which is against all kinds of rules. 

That's really irresponsible. 

[Ranxerox]

12 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

She also said that if girls can’t play sports theyll kill themselves.  Bbc reported it which is against all kinds of rules. 

Where exactly does she say this?

 

[Jose Jones]

It’s funny how Elliot Page only feels like a real boy now he’s had top surgery, because most blokes would love having a pair of tits to play with, amirite?

[Ranxerox]

42 minutes ago, Mudface said:

I skimmed through the article cited here yesterday, it blithely refers to 'top surgery' rather than what it actually is. Really dangerous.

 

 

Why is it a problem to say "top surgery"? 

 

I think I first became aware of men getting "sex change" surgery sometime in the '70's as I became a teenager. It's been around for a while, I don't recall any women being outraged it wasn't referred to as a "penectomy" (I had to look that up because I wasn't even sure of the actual medical term). 

 

A lot of women seem to have a real problem with TG issues but aren't willing to admit it's a result of bias as that is normally assumed to be a unique failing of us men. 

 

 

[Rico1304]

11 minutes ago, scottthecanuck said:

Where exactly does she say this?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56952345

[Rico1304]

2 minutes ago, scottthecanuck said:

Why is it a problem to say "top surgery"? 

 

I think I first became aware of men getting "sex change" surgery sometime in the '70's as I became a teenager. It's been around for a while, I don't recall any women being outraged it wasn't referred to as a "penectomy" (I had to look that up because I wasn't even sure of the actual medical term). 

 

A lot of women seem to have a real problem with TG issues but aren't willing to admit it's a result of bias as that is normally assumed to be a unique failing of us men. 

 

 

It diminishes the seriousness of the operation. Top surgery doesn’t sound as serious as a double mastectomy. 

[Mudface]

2 minutes ago, scottthecanuck said:

Why is it a problem to say "top surgery"? 

 

I think I first became aware of men getting "sex change" surgery sometime in the '70's as I became a teenager. It's been around for a while, I don't recall any women being outraged it wasn't referred to as a "penectomy" (I had to look that up because I wasn't even sure of the actual medical term). 

 

A lot of women seem to have a real problem with TG issues but aren't willing to admit it's a result of bias as that is normally assumed to be a unique failing of us men. 

 

 

Because it's a fluffy, even childish term used to disguise a serious medical procedure. It also trivialises the surgery undergone by women with breast cancer or a propensity towards it. 

[Ranxerox]

1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56952345

Yes I read the article, please provide the quote where "She also said that if girls can’t play sports theyll kill themselves"

[Ranxerox]

1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

It diminishes the seriousness of the operation. Top surgery doesn’t sound as serious as a double mastectomy. 

How is it different from saying men get a sex change operation?

[Ranxerox]

3 minutes ago, Mudface said:

Because it's a fluffy, even childish term used to disguise a serious medical procedure. It also trivialises the surgery undergone by women with breast cancer or a propensity towards it. 

nonsense

 

You're doing the very thing you accuse him of, playing semantics to try to score a point. Anyone undergoing consultation for a procedure like this with a Doctor is going to be made fully aware of the serious consequences and risks involved.  Do you really think doctors are just order takers?

[Mudface]

3 minutes ago, scottthecanuck said:

nonsense

 

You're doing the very thing you accuse him of, playing semantics to try to score a point. Anyone undergoing consultation for a procedure like this with a Doctor is going to be made fully aware of the serious consequences and risks involved.  Do you really think doctors are just order takers?

Fair enough. I assume it's worked for Page- although as people have commented he certainly doesn't look very happy. I just think citing a double mastectomy as some sort of panacea to what are likely confused and unhappy people and disguising what'll happen with some euphemism is irresponsible and dangerous reporting.  

[Rico1304]

10 minutes ago, scottthecanuck said:

nonsense

 

You're doing the very thing you accuse him of, playing semantics to try to score a point. Anyone undergoing consultation for a procedure like this with a Doctor is going to be made fully aware of the serious consequences and risks involved.  Do you really think doctors are just order takers?

Mmm, if I was to show you a picture of a doctor with breast tissue in buckets selling ‘top surgery’ would you change your mind? 

[Rico1304]

13 minutes ago, scottthecanuck said:

Yes I read the article, please provide the quote where "She also said that if girls can’t play sports theyll kill themselves"

"If you're not gonna allow trans kids to play sports, children will die," Page said. "And it really is that simple."

 

[Jack the Sipper]

I see some of the trans-rights activists on Twitter, in lieu of a decent counter-argument, are smearing Jenner with all sorts of irrelevances, like the fact that she killed someone in her car, and that she's supported Trump.

 

I'll concede that the Trump-supporting claim is hard to look past. 

[Ranxerox]

4 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

"If you're not gonna allow trans kids to play sports, children will die," Page said. "And it really is that simple."

 

Ok I see that in the BBC, the Guardian doesn't have that full quote rather making the "children will die" seem like a reference to the various anti-trans bills. 

 

It's poorly put but the point I think he's trying to make is that the anti-trans bills (with the ban on sports being the most publicized feature) will lead to declining mental health and suicides.  I believe that is a widely shared concern amongst Doctors and other professionals who treat individuals with Gender dysphoria.

 

Poorly put or not I don't see how its irresponsible on his part state it. Also not sure what you mean by this

 

"Bbc reported it which is against all kinds of rules." 

[Rico1304]

6 minutes ago, scottthecanuck said:

Ok I see that in the BBC, the Guardian doesn't have that full quote rather making the "children will die" seem like a reference to the various anti-trans bills. 

 

It's poorly put but the point I think he's trying to make is that the anti-trans bills (with the ban on sports being the most publicized feature) will lead to declining mental health and suicides.  I believe that is a widely shared concern amongst Doctors and other professionals who treat individuals with Gender dysphoria.

 

Poorly put or not I don't see how its irresponsible on his part state it. Also not sure what you mean by this

 

"Bbc reported it which is against all kinds of rules." 

There are rules about reporting around suicide ideation.  Particularly when it’s made up. Because suicide can become contagious. 

[Mudface]

18 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

There are rules about reporting around suicide ideation.  Particularly when it’s made up. Because suicide can become contagious. 

To add to that, it seems spiteful and unfair to have a blanket ban, surely a risk/ safety assessment on a case by case basis would be workable? You don't want large males playing contact sports with females as it's potentially dangerous. Also, I assume there's nothing stopping trans-kids playing sports against their own sex?

[Ranxerox]

25 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

There are rules about reporting around suicide ideation.  Particularly when it’s made up. Because suicide can become contagious. 

The mental health issues of Gender dysphobia is well documented.

 

Suicide is not contagious, that is a scientific fact. 

[Rico1304]

20 minutes ago, Mudface said:

To add to that, it seems spiteful and unfair to have a blanket ban, surely a risk/ safety assessment on a case by case basis would be workable? You don't want large males playing contact sports with females as it's potentially dangerous. Also, I assume there's nothing stopping trans-kids playing sports against their own sex?

Is that workable? How would you test it? Any male of the same size as a woman would have a bigger heart, more fast twitch muscles, bigger lungs, better aim, better throwing arm etc etc etc.  It’s simply unfair. 
Nope. 

[Mudface]

4 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Is that workable? How would you test it? Any male of the same size as a woman would have a bigger heart, more fast twitch muscles, bigger lungs, better aim, better throwing arm etc etc etc.  It’s simply unfair. 
Nope. 

I was thinking more of the safety side of things during PE lessons. For actual competitive sport, then no, you shouldn't be mixing males and females.

[Megadrive Man]

Isn't the obvious answer for competitive sport to create a trans league?