Anti FFP action starts legal challenge

[Horus]

FSG are going nowhere this close to the new TV deal.

[FanchesterCity]

Dude, shut the fuck up. Your stunning lack of awareness relating to the situation both city and us are currently in, is 2nd only to your long winded moralising on the state of the corrupt game.

 

I've said it before, but no one needs "how to get rich" advice from a lottery winner.

 

 

I didn't win the lottery. I still pay to watch football.

Are you confusing me with City? 

 

If anybody's showing an alarming lack of awareness, it's not me.

[ritchie]

There's two ways Liverpool can be successful again.

 

1) We get taken over by mega rich owners who are happy to pump fortunes into the club and there's no FFP to put a stop to it.

 

2) We have very canny owners who appoint high quality staff in all areas of the club. We become one of the best teams in Europe at transfers. We appoint a boss manager who can go above and beyond (Klopp for a few years at Dortmund, Rafa for a few years here and at Valencia, Simeone at Atletico).

 

Neither scenario is going to happen under these owners unless they get a grip of themselves and carry out some or all of the scenarios in number 2. That's the only way FFP can work for LFC - by us being smarter than the competition. At the moment we could be outsmarted by a club owned by Peter Ridsdale, so FSG need to get a grip of themselves first before championing FFP.

 

If they sell up then we're as likely to get more clueless twats or charlatans as we are City type owners because FSG won't care who they sell up to if they get the value in price.

[Ranxerox]

FSG are going nowhere this close to the new TV deal.

 

Probably right. We`re a nice little revenue stream that will only improve with the stadium and future TV deals. So long as they reinvest enough to keep us in the top half of the table they won`t suffer a serious decline in revenue. 

[Harry Squatter]

They might turn us into Newcastle if that is their philosophy. If we get in the CL and we get twatted like we did this year it won't matter as we will have earned another £30m just for hanging around.

[ratcatcher]

We have twice been offered for sale and at a good price. FSG got us for a steal.

 

if there were any mega rich interested buyers they would have bought us by now.

 

There aren't any.

 

We are where we are. Live with it and move on 

 

Sadly, this is the bitter reality.

 

Clubs like city, chelsea, psg etc have been lucky enough to win a lottery jackpot. A pure fluke of luck, nothing else.

[ritchie]

Sadly, this is the bitter reality.

 

Clubs like city, chelsea, psg etc have been lucky enough to win a lottery jackpot. A pure fluke of luck, nothing else.

Is it pure luck or have they been savvy enough to seek out the right buyer? Shiniwatra brokered the deal with City's owners in 2008. A year earlier Moores and Parry couldn't work a google search between them. Is it any wonder they couldn't sell it properly?

 

As Purslow himself said FSG was the bottom of the barrel out of what was on the table but a Chelsea fan decided to go with them.

[Barrington Womble]

Sadly, this is the bitter reality.

 

Clubs like city, chelsea, psg etc have been lucky enough to win a lottery jackpot. A pure fluke of luck, nothing else.

 

part of the reason we failed to be sold both times, is we went out with the begging bowl saying buy us for 200m, spend 200m on the team and another 400m on the stadium, to be left with a club worth 200m. everything fsg have done to date is about making us more valluable as it's the only way they will make their ROI they so desperately want.

 

The deal when they bought LFC valued us at around £300m. Recently we were valued by Forbes at around £600m. That's without the new TV deal. That is without the new corporate hospitality stand with its sponsorship deal. By the start of the 2016/17 season, I have absolutely no doubt we'll be worth toward £1bn. Now this doesn't mean we are about to get some new oil rich owners or anything like that, but it gives a completely different business case for anyone looking to buy a football club. Pay £1bn for a club that is worth £1bn and has increased it's value year and year for the last 6/7 years. That's a completely different story to shelling out £800m for a team that at the end of it might at best be worth half that. 

 

My guess is FSG will sell at some point during the next 3 years, but it is highly unlikely they will sell to anyone interested in running us as anything but a business. 

[stringvest]

Nice little exit strategy for FSG me thinks

 

hardly a strategy - more another reason to sell now, before the exponential rise in spending disparity takes the top 4 clubs even further ahead of us than they are now.  

 

They need to shit now or get off the pot before the value of their asset starts sliding

[stringvest]

Is it pure luck or have they been savvy enough to seek out the right buyer? Shiniwatra brokered the deal with City's owners in 2008. A year earlier Moores and Parry couldn't work a google search between them. Is it any wonder they couldn't sell it properly?

 

As Purslow himself said FSG was the bottom of the barrel out of what was on the table but a Chelsea fan decided to go with them.

 

FSG were the only game in town.  And what team Broughton supports has fuck all to do with it.  You surely don't think that someone in his position would allow what sports team he follows to influence his professional judgement?  He's not 10. 

[Ronnie Whelan]

I've no doubt we will be bought in the next few years. Our brand is huge and we are still one of the biggest clubs in the world, including being the most supported in Britain and Ireland. We are ripe for an oligarch or oil sheikh. They will love the fact that very little has to be done to build the "brand". We already have the worldwide support unlike Chelsea or city when their owners came in.

 

However, I've no doubt that fsg won't sell without a massive profit. If and I honestly think when we get taken over, a huge part of me will delighted that we can buy the best and keep the best, but a huge part of me will feel it's almost a further nail in the coffin for football.

[Barrington Womble]

hardly a strategy - more another reason to sell now, before the exponential rise in spending disparity takes the top 4 clubs even further ahead of us than they are now.  

 

They need to shit now or get off the pot before the value of their asset starts sliding

personally i think everything they have done in recent years is with this in mind. keep reducing the outgoings, knowing income will rise and rise and this way the club will still be profitable when it's mid-table and going nowhere. if by some chance you fluke upon a genius manager and/or an unusually crop of bright young talent, you might nip in and have the odd good season - like everton or spurs. that's the model. 

[stringvest]

I've no doubt we will be bought in the next few years. Our brand is huge and we are still one of the biggest clubs in the world, including being the most supported in Britain and Ireland. We are ripe for an oligarch or oil sheikh. They will love the fact that very little has to be done to build the "brand". We already have the worldwide support unlike Chelsea or city when their owners came in.

 

However, I've no doubt that fsg won't sell without a massive profit. If and I honestly think when we get taken over, a huge part of me will delighted that we can buy the best and keep the best, but a huge part of me will feel it's almost a further nail in the coffin for football.

 

Bad news alert - there is nobody interested in buying us.  

[stringvest]

personally i think everything they have done in recent years is with this in mind. keep reducing the outgoings, knowing income will rise and rise and this way the club will still be profitable when it's mid-table and going nowhere. if by some chance you fluke upon a genius manager and/or an unusually crop of bright young talent, you might nip in and have the odd good season - like everton or spurs. that's the model. 

 

if I thought that they could rely on a strategy that kept us between 5-8 in the league, then I'd go along with that.  But sponsorship deals are not going to be renewed at the same level if our profile is diminishing.  Sponsors do not like to be associated with a failing product.  Our 'market share' of football's global fanbase will reduce, and perhaps more quickly and significantly that they imagine - 'remote' fans are far more fickle about their allegiances than yer match-going red.  We will be left behind, and profitability will suffer.    

[Captain]

personally i think everything they have done in recent years is with this in mind. keep reducing the outgoings, knowing income will rise and rise and this way the club will still be profitable when it's mid-table and going nowhere. if by some chance you fluke upon a genius manager and/or an unusually crop of bright young talent, you might nip in and have the odd good season - like everton or spurs. that's the model. 

 

I used to think top four and CL income was their target, but I've more or less accepted that's not their goal. Your description is pretty much how I see it now.

[FanchesterCity]

I've no doubt we will be bought in the next few years. Our brand is huge and we are still one of the biggest clubs in the world, including being the most supported in Britain and Ireland. We are ripe for an oligarch or oil sheikh. They will love the fact that very little has to be done to build the "brand". We already have the worldwide support unlike Chelsea or city when their owners came in.

 

However, I've no doubt that fsg won't sell without a massive profit. If and I honestly think when we get taken over, a huge part of me will delighted that we can buy the best and keep the best, but a huge part of me will feel it's almost a further nail in the coffin for football.

 

I wouldn't say you're 'wrong' because different owners have different ideas on the clubs they buy, but I would say you're looking at it from one angle only.

 

You're looking at it from the best house on the street, and saying 'it's all done, ready to move into', but there's a real market for people wanting to buy the scruffy house further down the road and do it up... either for profit, or because they can make it what they want it to be.

 

The huge fanbase you've got is great IF they buyer needs that for his purposes, but other owners might not care - they just want a new stadium they can name, and loads of CL and PL exposure. Others might want a club they can say 'look how I transformed this'. It would be hard to do that with Liverpool, as people would always say 'they were big already'.

 

I personally think that the billionaires of this world can afford to knock something down and build something they want, and that's why they aren't going for established clubs - they don't feel they need that. It's the lesser owners who can't afford to do that who need to buy into a ready made club.

 

These billionaires seems to fancy themselves more as 'developers' than 'home owners', which is why I think they are attracted by less established clubs.

[Barrington Womble]

if I thought that they could rely on a strategy that kept us between 5-8 in the league, then I'd go along with that.  But sponsorship deals are not going to be renewed at the same level if our profile is diminishing.  Sponsors do not like to be associated with a failing product.  Our 'market share' of football's global fanbase will reduce, and perhaps more quickly and significantly that they imagine - 'remote' fans are far more fickle about their allegiances than yer match-going red.  We will be left behind, and profitability will suffer.    

 

they won't care about that, they will have sold out. If they can fill this new stand full of corporate ST's they'll sell for a massive profit, £800m-£1bn, if they don't they will probably still walk away selling it for £500m and doubling their dough. it's no lose for them - they couldn't make that ROI doing high frequency trading or making shit TV shows. All spending money and shooting for trophies does is undermine their ability to make a profit. They are here for the gold not the silver. 

[stringvest]

They are here for the gold not the silver. 

 

Killer line.

[FanchesterCity]

Killer line.

 

It is.

[Ronnie Whelan]

I wouldn't say you're 'wrong' because different owners have different ideas on the clubs they buy, but I would say you're looking at it from one angle only.

 

You're looking at it from the best house on the street, and saying 'it's all done, ready to move into', but there's a real market for people wanting to buy the scruffy house further down the road and do it up... either for profit, or because they can make it what they want it to be.

 

The huge fanbase you've got is great IF they buyer needs that for his purposes, but other owners might not care - they just want a new stadium they can name, and loads of CL and PL exposure. Others might want a club they can say 'look how I transformed this'. It would be hard to do that with Liverpool, as people would always say 'they were big already'.

 

I personally think that the billionaires of this world can afford to knock something down and build something they want, and that's why they aren't going for established clubs - they don't feel they need that. It's the lesser owners who can't afford to do that who need to buy into a ready made club.

 

These billionaires seems to fancy themselves more as 'developers' than 'home owners', which is why I think they are attracted by less established clubs.

I see that point too. However, having such a big fan base is going to be attractive. Liverpool and United have that whereas a club like West Ham will take years to get to that. Of course, you could argue that the newer football regions are less static and there will suddenly be loads of Hammers in Tokyo, Beijing and Texas. Chelsea are probably bigger than us in Asia now.

[xerxes]

The impending changes to FFP acknowledge a point of view, widely held, that FFP as it was invented was anything but fair, and instead consolidated the position of the elite by denying investment to aspiring clubs.

 

Our failure to sell well in the past two rounds had nothing to do with bad luck, and everything to do with a failure by past owners to build a 21st stadium, and continue investment in the team.

 

Do not be seduced by the Forbes valuation, a paper exercise only, no team has ever sold for a Forbes valuation, it is for self-promotion only.

 

LFC continue to be the second best supported English team by home average attendance, our commercial deals reflect continued purchasing of shirts and memorabilia trading on our past not our future. We also continue to be the worst performing team in the North West at increasing home attendances in the PL era because of the size of our stadium. The failure of successive regimes to offer a stadium consistent with our support amounts to wilful neglect. The FFP exemption for stadium expenditure exposes FSG’s chin music only support for FFP. Instead of building a stadium fit for the Red hordes, we will end up with a support that barely fills the stadium.

 

In the near future, West Ham and Spurs will offer stadia , capacities and facilities superior to ours and will be ahead of us in the queue for “ oven ready” propositions, those looking to make money will be eying the next Bournemouth.

 

LFC still offers a support, history and potential to compete with the elite, what we have lacked is ownership with a leadership and vision to realise that.

[redheart]

Surely we are not the second best supported English team by average home attedance.

 

Surely both Man Utd and Arsenal are ahead of us. As indeed are Newcastle and Man City.

 

http://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-premier-league-2014-2015/1/

[xerxes]

Surely we are not the second best supported English team by average home attedance.

 

Surely both Man Utd and Arsenal are ahead of us. As indeed are Newcastle and Man City.

 

http://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-premier-league-2014-2015/1/

I should have said by historic average attendance since formation, sorry.

 

And it is that historic affiliation which we are slowly squandering.

[Ronnie Whelan]

Given that we are the most supported club in Britain and Ireland, and are based in the most football mad city in the country, you would imagine that FSG/new owners will look to build Anfield up to a greater level than 60k. You also have to throw in the football tourist, who will view seeing Anfield, the way I might seeing the Bombanera or the San Siro.

 

The net worth of a redeveloped Centenary - ideally as big as the main stand - and an increased Kop would outweigh the very significant costs of this project. If we are puting an extra 12-20k in the stadium by doing this, then that pays for itself within a generation.

 

I would love if this was something that we came out and said that we are thinking about. The Mancs did things the right way with Old Trafford by building it up over the last 20 years. They are looking at turing it into a 95k seater stadium - with our current redevelopment, we would still be 35k under them.

[Ranxerox]

they won't care about that, they will have sold out. If they can fill this new stand full of corporate ST's they'll sell for a massive profit, £800m-£1bn, if they don't they will probably still walk away selling it for £500m and doubling their dough. it's no lose for them - they couldn't make that ROI doing high frequency trading or making shit TV shows. All spending money and shooting for trophies does is undermine their ability to make a profit. They are here for the gold not the silver. 

 

I really don't think they are going anywhere. They're Fenway Sports Group. All indications are that the EPL will continue to be a growing and financially rewarding professional sporting league. They have one of the crown jewels of that league and have spent and invested the vast amount of their resources and efforts so far on increasing revenues and making the operation more profitable. Why walk away from that? Where would they invest the proceeds? In curling? Women's field hockey? They got into footy because its a great opportunity that complements their North American holdings.

 

They'll be here a long time.