Why don't we fight back?

[ngogswilly]

Its been covered before but I'm not sure in any one thread.

 

Just curious, in the light of that fucking cuntbag shithouse Pulis and hows he released the media hounds.

 

How is it we never manage to stick up for ourselves properly?

 

Or what can we do?

 

I'm not really sure what the question is.

 

I'm just fucking sick of us being targetted. As I've said in numerous threads, had that been a Manc player(probably any player from any other club) yesterday there wouldn't have been mention of the dive and thats fucking clearly not acceptable.

 

I think Rodgers tried to fight back yesterday after the game, but its a battle thats too big for him.

 

Previous managers have needed backing and help fighting our corner and never got it and Rodgers needs it more than anybody.

 

As for Suarez, in my opinion he fucked up diving yesterday but at this point as Section 31 says hes going to end up being hounded out of English football.

We've all seen it coming and whatever your opinion on him and his antics, surely we can all see hes getting it in the neck worse than anybody ever has and the agenda being set is clear as day.

[Gym Beglin]

Moral points always get overlooked when you're not winning games. Then they just sound like excuses.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Frightened of damaging the brand imo.

[Timão]

Really do not want to go all academic and theoretical but, workwise, I do a lot of research institutional behaviour and culture.

 

LFC, as an institution, is submissive, that is the culture which has been installed over the last 25 years. We have lost all ability to act decisively and strategically first because Moores simply was incapable of doing so and then because the new owners had no interest in long-term thinking and changing the culture. We just lived from re-financing to re-financing deadline.

 

I actually think that our current owners are trying to change this, though I have my doubts that they will be successful. If they are, it will take a long, long time.

 

As an institution we are still an empty shell, destroyed by decades of bad management. Having lost our place as THE club in English football and been overtaken by not just one but several others, confidence has drained away both on and off the pitch.

 

We SHOULD of course respond to stuff like Pullis because it is a disgrace, but he says it because HE is secure and is following a clear line within his club and he knows that WE will not respond, too caught up in our own misery and general lack of direction.

 

As I said, I still think that can change but it wont be today or tomorrow.

[Chairman Meow]

Unfortunately we are always going to struggle to fight back when Luis throws a blatant dive like he did yesterday.

 

Huth should be punished for the stamp but Luis isn't going to help himself with shit like that, it just gives those following his reputation more ammunition. Before we can get any progress on nothing being given against him he also has to help himself and shit like that won't help matters.

 

In the meantime the opposition are safe to go about kicking lumps out of him without any fear of punishment.

[therevivalist]

I think Rodgers has got to come out and speak up to defend the players when required. He mumbles and very timidly sometimes but he's yet to come out robustly in defence of his own players. What about the PR man or the CEO, where are they when you need them!!!

[Sandford]

This summed it up for me yesterday:

 

Suarez Dives - Pulis and the Stoke players all over it. SSN run the story. M.O.T.D Focus on it and Suarez is painted in a terrible light once again.

 

Bale Dives - Lambert says nothing and Nothing from villa players either. No story from SSN. M.O.T.D Focuses on it but we should enjoy and laugh at Bales attempt to get the oppositions keeper sent of because its the lighter side of football.

 

UNBELIEVABLE

 

:wallbutt:

 

Could you imagine the reaction if Suarez was Bale when he dived or Huth when he stamped.

Hung Drawn and Quartered springs to mind!!

Edited October 8, 2012 by Sandford
.

[ngogswilly]

Really do not want to go all academic and theoretical but, workwise, I do a lot of research institutional behaviour and culture.

 

LFC, as an institution, is submissive, that is the culture which has been installed over the last 25 years. We have lost all ability to act decisively and strategically first because Moores simply was incapable of doing so and then because the new owners had no interest in long-term thinking and changing the culture. We just lived from re-financing to re-financing deadline.

 

I actually think that our current owners are trying to change this, though I have my doubts that they will be successful. If they are, it will take a long, long time.

 

As an institution we are still an empty shell, destroyed by decades of bad management. Having lost our place as THE club in English football and been overtaken by not just one but several others, confidence has drained away both on and off the pitch.

 

We SHOULD of course respond to stuff like Pullis because it is a disgrace, but he says it because HE is secure and is following a clear line within his club and he knows that WE will not respond, too caught up in our own misery and general lack of direction.

 

As I said, I still think that can change but it wont be today or tomorrow.

 

Very interesting response. Exactly the type of discussion I'm interested in hearing.

 

Unfortunately we are always going to struggle to fight back when Luis throws a blatant dive like he did yesterday.

 

Huth should be punished for the stamp but Luis isn't going to help himself with shit like that, it just gives those following his reputation more ammunition. Before we can get any progress on nothing being given against him he also has to help himself and shit like that won't help matters.

 

In the meantime the opposition are safe to go about kicking lumps out of him without any fear of punishment.

 

Couldn't agree more in the sense that Suarez has to cut out the shit.

 

But I just don't think the problem is solely on his end. It extends way beyond Suarez. Its basically an almost constant onslaught against the club in terms of negative publicity.

 

Now some think, fuck that, it doesn't matter or have any bearing on what happens to the club. But I just don't think thats true. I think theres a shedload of ways it can affect us.

 

i.e. Stoke got away with kicking the fuck out of us yesterday. Now we won't be the only team they'll attempt to kick lumps out of. But I'd be amazed if ref's are as lenient with Stoke against other teams as Mason was with us yesterday, literally fucking amazed.

[Faustus]

If I was cynical, I'd say that the owners are waiting for him to spew it. Can't overtly state that they'll accept offers for our best player because it sends out the message that we've got fuck all ambition to compete at the top. Instead, wait for him to make the first move.

 

'Brand' restored and transfer kitty taken care of. Two birds, one stone.

[Evil_Ways]

I have to say im impressed Rodgers didnt completely loose it in the post match PC and went full blast towards Stoke and Pulis. After that fucks comments though im not convinced Rodgers will be as easy before our next encounter.

[col06]

Whats the point the FA are useless some might even argue that there corrupt too

[Whelan]

If you are going to fight, then you do it believing you will win. Flailing at all and sundry doesn't do the club any good. Maybe if we as fans took up the fight against the FA a little bit more robustly then the message might get through.

 

'You can stick your fucking FA up your arse' should be sung a lot more than it is in my opinion. Never mind the shit now, their fingers are all over the Hillsborough disaster cover up and we should let them know we know that.

[fowler9]

look what happened when we did fightback regarding Suarez last season, we got slaughtered and waved a white flag

[ngogswilly]

look what happened when we did fightback regarding Suarez last season, we got slaughtered and waved a white flag

 

Did we really though.

 

I've seen people say we did but basically we came out in a show of support.

 

We never actively challenged the media in terms of their reporting or challenged the FA directly in terms of their handling of the case.

 

A huge problem I always had with that was that the club let everything fester.

 

Why no one ever came out, gave a press conference and tore a hole in the FA's report or even just explained why we supported Luis, I'll never fucking know.

 

That report was torn apart by people on various forums so I'm sure any lawyer worth his salt could have done it too.

 

It was all left to Kenny to fight and Kenny couldn't do it by himself.

 

The club itself as an entity never fought back in my opinion.

[G Richards]

I actually thought we were fighting back, at least somewhat. Go back a week, and the PR was slowly turning in our direction, as the unfair treatment Suarez was receiving was starting to get some publicity. If he didn't dive yesterday, then it might have given more room for the Huth stamp to be the story, but instead, Suarez has given the press a huge green light to go after him.

 

Brendan Rodgers is no pushover and he will stick up for his team and his players, but in the meantime he needs to get a few results so he has more of a voice. It will come. We will fight back. I see some of our players fighting for this club even now. It was a joy to see Shelvey lay into Ferguson. It was probably ill advised, but it was a joy nonetheless.

 

However, the fight will be fought on the pitch. When that is clicking, the rest will follow. The best way to fight back is on the pitch. I can see a young and exciting team beginning to emerge. This is what will start to win the PR war, which in turn will see us getting fairer treatment, which in turn will help the team to do better.

[Delmar]

In order to fight back you have to have most of the following:

 

1 The guts

2 The motivation

3 The tools

4 The connections

5 The PR "moral" support

6 The right people in charge

7 The courage to lose, should things go to hell

8 The courage to win, which isn't so obvious either

 

All of that takes a long time to create, just like Timao (repped) said. Right now we lack in most areas. We are simply flat. Thus no fight.

[zico]

Rodgers needs to grew a pair and come out swinging.....

 

The only way today would not have been about Suarez, was if he came out and absolutely annihilated Mason and Pulis..... But he didn't, and the racist UK press have free reign...

[King Emlyn]

It is getting beyond a joke now, any fucker just lays into us safe in the knowledge there is no comeback. I'm very disappointed in Rodgers not slaughtering that stamp.

[J-V]

It is getting beyond a joke now, any fucker just lays into us safe in the knowledge there is no comeback. I'm very disappointed in Rodgers not slaughtering that stamp.

Agree with that.

[Redder Lurtz]

I actually thought we were fighting back, at least somewhat. Go back a week, and the PR was slowly turning in our direction, as the unfair treatment Suarez was receiving was starting to get some publicity. If he didn't dive yesterday, then it might have given more room for the Huth stamp to be the story, but instead, Suarez has given the press a huge green light to go after him.

 

 

This. I've been sticking up for Suarez during conversations with anyone from mancs to our own supporters lately. That dive yesterday just undid any of the good PR and fucked all the arguments in his favour. If it wasn't for the fact we've got very few strike options I'd see him banned for 3 games for it - IF it was going to be applied to all diving cheats such as Bale. But let's face it, that won't happen. Suarez is going to keep getting highlighted for every little thing he does because that red nosed scottish cunt targeted him last season so everyone else follows suit.

 

The club also need to say something about that stamp. Rodgers needs to say something about it in his next presser.

[Funkasy]

about half of our supporters don't even fight in Suarez corner, so its gonna be a tough fight.

[gumps]

 

Brendan Rodgers is no pushover and he will stick up for his team and his players, but in the meantime he needs to get a few results so he has more of a voice. It will come. We will fight back. I see some of our players fighting for this club even now. It was a joy to see Shelvey lay into Ferguson. It was probably ill advised, but it was a joy nonetheless.

 

However, the fight will be fought on the pitch. When that is clicking, the rest will follow. The best way to fight back is on the pitch. I can see a young and exciting team beginning to emerge. This is what will start to win the PR war, which in turn will see us getting fairer treatment, which in turn will help the team to do better.

 

This. We are at a low ebb at the moment. Best to turn the other cheek and bite lips until we are in a better position. We all know whats going on ,but whinging about the press/media (when we mostly don't give a fuck about do we?) and going to Mike Riley only perpetuates the problem.

 

It's very difficult to swim against the populist media agenda, and they've got it in for us at the moment and have for the last year. If we could go a month without any of Luis' histrionics, they will have moved on to someone else.

[Redder Lurtz]

Good to see one of our own shouting about Luis' antics from the rooftops too. Not like we've already got to put up with it from the anti-Liverpool brigasde it is. Thanks a lot for this, Jan Molby.

 

It is not being melodramatic to suggest Luis Suarez is costing Liverpool penalty kicks with his conduct in going down trying to win them.

 

If you look at the incident in the 0-0 draw against Stoke City yesterday, when he turns back there may have been the slightest of touches. But the slightest of touches is never enough to bring a grown man down in the way Suarez suggested.

 

It is the striker's reaction after it that is probably most disappointing. He throws himself to the ground. It is an unnecessary action.

 

He didn't have to do that yesterday. I think issues like that are discussed by everybody including the manager Brendan Rodgers, and the Liverpool players. But most pertinently of all, it is being discussed among referees.

 

It is an ongoing issue and is a problem now because of the way Suarez is viewed by referees.

 

Unless it is an absolute stonewall penalty, not many referees are going to give him a penalty.

 

Yet there is no player in the Premier League who is involved in as many potential penalty incidents as Suarez because of the way he plays.

 

The way he turns and moves in the penalty box, he is always asking the question. And big central defenders have to twist and turn. There is always a chance they will dangle a leg for Suarez to take the bait.

 

It is the drama that Suarez puts into it all afterwards, the sort of unnatural body action that you see after he goes to ground, that is the real problem. If you are clipped in the penalty area, you have to trust that the referee will spot it and act accordingly.

 

You don't need to add to the drama of the moment. The biggest problem now is that every time he is in the penalty box, Suarez puts the referee under pressure.

 

Of course, Suarez is not the only attacker using this ploy. The winning of a free-kick or the winning of a penalty has become part of the modern game.

 

Defenders used to commit fouls years ago. Now attackers win free-kicks and penalties. That is where the game has changed.

 

There was a time when defenders used to put their hands up and admit they had committed a foul. Now that has changed with attackers constantly looking to gain an advantage.

 

Some people can say it is a part of the game, but it is not really required.

 

I am not one of those who say it was better years ago, but there was more of a tendency to stay on your feet whenever possible.

 

I think Brendan might ask Luis to take the theatrics out of it. By all means go down if you are fouled, but don't add to the drama.

 

The problem for Luis is he is not being awarded penalties that he should have been given because he has gained this reputation. That is not helpful to Liverpool's cause.

 

Especially when you are trying to turn draws into narrow wins.

[Code]

Our manager tried last year, the owners wanted nothing of it though so they sacked him and put in place someone who would not disturb the press and other managers.

[OOTer]

Sorry, haven't read the whole thread. Hope this is appropriate and in keeping...

 

I swear the BBC had a piece last week or so about refs AGAIN telling players to go down if they want to win a free kick... kinda similar to this story from last year.

 

Be more dishonest and you¿ll win more free-kicks, referee Webb tells fall guys Tangerines ahead of Liverpool clash | Mail Online

 

Anyone find the more recent story?

 

Personally, I think Luis had every right to do down. He was clipped. Was it worthy of a pen. That's up to the ref. Can't see how Luis can get retro-banned when the ref clearly saw it. lol.