Kenny vs Henry

[xerxes]

It's a tough one. I can't imagine Kenny being moved upstairs unless we have a replacement lined up, and if we have a replacement lined up and word spreads we could have another Rafa - Klinsman problem on our hands.

As an interim arrangement post G&H, having Kenny as DOF and an up and coming manager underneath him had merit.

 

Now the game has moved on.Kenny has no experience of working in Europe and modest experience of managing in Europe.He has never been involved in coaching nor in doing transfer deals, that is not what we need from a DOF now.

[navbasi]

for me the big problem with getting rid of kenny is we would have demonstrated that we aren't willing to give a manager longer than a year if things go tits up and imho that is opening up pandora's box (fnar fnar). what happens if the new manager goes on a bad run? get rid? this league has shown that consistancy with managers earns rewards that and blank cheques and we don't have a blank check.

 

if you make a long term plan then you don't rip up that plan the second you hit a bump in the road that is a recipe for disaster.

 

I remember reading that was one of the main reasons why Gill never sacked Slur as he didn't want Utd getting a reputation as a sacking club..

[silverlining]

I remember reading that was one of the main reasons why Gill never sacked Slur as he didn't want Utd getting a reputation as a sacking club..

 

Ferguson was also still very young for a football manager, and had just enough credit still in the bank after the amazing success he had with Aberdeen.

 

I don't think Gill is some kind of seer or genius, because nobody could have predicted what he would go on to achieve.

[MichaelThomas]

Mark Robins saved Fergie.

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

do we have a young squad?

 

gerrard - 32

carra - 34

kuyt - 31

maxi - 31

bellamy - 31

 

To be fair, only Gerrard and maybe Bellamy will be playing for us next season

[Faustus]

If Kenny's not getting time, is Villas Boas?

 

Or anyone for that matter?

 

People say this like it's a cure-all, but if results are shit they still want change.

 

The whole point of giving someone time is that they get it even if the results are fucking awful.

 

Nail on the head there, mate.

 

I'm still behind Kenny, but, to be honest, I'm not going to criticise somebody who wants him to leave at the end of the season (as long as they're not a complete tool about it) because I'd be lying if I said I didn't have doubts myself. If we get shut of Kenny, my main worry is that we're halfway down the slippery slope to a Chelsea style scattergun hiring and firing policy. A manager should be given the oppurtunity to rectify his mistakes, which is why if we're in this position with Kenny at the helm next season, I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say that it's time for the fella to move on or into a new position at the club. Personally, I do think that Kenny has enough credit in the bank with a trophy in the cabinet, the possibility of another to come and the fact that by and large, I've been happy with the style of football even if it's quite embarrassing at times how wasteful we've been in front of goal.

 

If we were to look for somebody else at the end of the season, I think the only way to go is to look for a young, hungry manager and sell the challenge to him, rather than the club. Give him free rein to do whatever he wants with regard to staff, transfers and basically tell him to build the club in his own image. It may sound uncomfortable, but we'd probably have to forget about results for a year or two under the circumstances of such a reuilding job and pretty much suspend expectations for 2-3 years, barring something catastrophic like a relegation dogfight.

 

I can't remember who it was who said it, but I remember reading an interview with an old manager from years ago (Brian Clough, it may have been but not 100% sure) and he said the best piece of advice he received was to pick the chairman and not the club. I think the prospect of working in an environment such as the one I mentioned in the above paragraph would appeal to a lot of promising young managers such as Villas-Boas, Klopp and, yes I'm going to say them even though their names may be met with sneering, condescending comments of 'they're not good enough for Liverpool' (whatever that means these days) the likes of Paul Lambert and Brendan Rodgers. Not that those two would be anyway near my first choice, but the likelihood is that they're feature on any shortlist we draw up for a vacant managerial position.

 

The hardest thing, in my opinion, in the above scenario would be suspending the expectations of the supporters. Too many feel we still have a divine right to challenge at the top and routinely batter teams simply because we're Liverpool, and I'd worry that the knives would be out if we were to go through a sticky patch at some point.

 

Like it or not, we're a long way away from where we want to be and if Kenny stays or goes, its a hell of a rebuilding job either way.

[Redshadow]

Silverlining? Correct me if I'm wrong but back then wasn't it Martin Edwards in Charge of United & not David Gill? Thought Gill had only come along & taken the reins there relatively recently myself but then given just How unreliable my minds been of late? I might be wrong. Doesn't really matter either way now but pretty sure it's Mr Edwards primarily responsible for the last 2 decades of Taggart being around. So in the end? I think Young Master Martin is the one who to put it mildly? Will have rather a lot to answer for & then some...................

 

Faustus? Agree we should give Kenny the time as by definition? Any rebuilding job will take a while & this one is no exception in fact given it's size? It only reinforces that rule - Giving an incumbent time, backing & a shield from the evil tw*ts in the media in this country who Think they control & influence football (& who want to do so to Our clubs detriment above All others)? Well giving a manager at LFC those 3 things is the Only way we'll even Start the repair job never mind come close to finishing it........

 

Another thing though Mate? I don't think we're Quite as far away as League Results may indicate. Don't forget in the Big League Games mostly this season (earlier on anyway) as well as All the Cup games irrespective of the level of opposition? We've raised our game by several levels, gone up a gear or three to levels we may not have hinted at having before & won them all quite comfortably with the exception of the Arsenal game in the league where we should have battered them & the United one where we were poor. The fact we had the capacity to do that? Shows we Can do it when we put our mind & collective application as a Team to the matter. It's doing it consitently enough to challenge in the league that's The hard part now.

 

Also Faustus? I think whilst we could do with cover at left back & in the middle for Lucas - If we get them & add a couple of goalscorers upfront & a winger or two to finish off our approach play or add accuracy to the floods of chances we create? And we'll be challenging for Third or even Second never mind Fourth so high has been the quality of our play at times this season & so solid our defence until recently when the lack of targets in the league has been obvious. Anyway - In short? Add a cutting edge onto a body of work like That? And we'd be a Very dangerous side indeed & who better to oversee the addition of said edge than The best British Manager bar only one (Four League Titles here is more than All bar You Know Who) who also just happened to be The outstanding forward player of almost two generations in his On the pitch days? I can't think of anyone better to be entrusted with the next phrase of the rebuiliding than Kenny Dalglish & When (not if) he gets it right? Everything will change for us - Mark my words........................

Edited April 23, 2012 by Redshadow

[Antynwa]

I'm sure Gill only came in after Peter Kenyon

[Magic Sponge]

Mark Robins saved Fergie.

 

Negged for calling him "Fergie".

[benite]

My fear is that Kenny would be given another season. Then next season starts off as this one has finished and it all turns sour very quickly for kenny . He'll get hounded out of his position and i would hate to see that.

 

I think Kenny will leave his position in the summer and HOPEFULLY move upstairs back into an ambassador role. I feel we are better served with Kenny at the club in a minor role than him not being here.

 

I've no idea what sort of a manager they will look for but the Chelsea situation of early this year should be considered when making a decision on the new boss. Bringing a young manager in isn't always the answer and its risky with Gerrard, Carra and Bellamy still at the club.

 

Im not sure it would work

[thompsonsnose]

My fear is that Kenny would be given another season. Then next season starts off as this one has finished and it all turns sour very quickly for kenny . He'll get hounded out of his position and i would hate to see that.

 

I think Kenny will leave his position in the summer and HOPEFULLY move upstairs back into an ambassador role. I feel we are better served with Kenny at the club in a minor role than him not being here.

 

I've no idea what sort of a manager they will look for but the Chelsea situation of early this year should be considered when making a decision on the new boss. Bringing a young manager in isn't always the answer and its risky with Gerrard, Carra and Bellamy still at the club.

 

Im not sure it would work

 

Chelsea were in open revolt against AVB. Drogba Mongo Lampard Cole maybe more.

All still relevant pivotal players.

We would only have Gerrard in the influential old skool category.

Nobody is gonna give 2 fucks what Carragher thinks of anything next season.

Are they?:eek:

[PaulMcC]

My fear is that Kenny would be given another season. Then next season starts off as this one has finished and it all turns sour very quickly for kenny . He'll get hounded out of his position and i would hate to see that.

 

I think Kenny will leave his position in the summer and HOPEFULLY move upstairs back into an ambassador role. I feel we are better served with Kenny at the club in a minor role than him not being here.

 

I've no idea what sort of a manager they will look for but the Chelsea situation of early this year should be considered when making a decision on the new boss. Bringing a young manager in isn't always the answer and its risky with Gerrard, Carra and Bellamy still at the club.

 

Im not sure it would work

 

If they've too much power then get rid of them. No players should be as powerful as Chelsea's (and maybe some of ours) are. They aren't exactly putting in great performances every week either.

[benite]

Chelsea were in open revolt against AVB. Drogba Mongo Lampard Cole maybe more.

All still relevant pivotal players.

We would only have Gerrard in the influential old skool category.

Nobody is gonna give 2 fucks what Carragher thinks of anything next season.

Are they?:eek:

 

Im not saying they'll have influence over the manager but influence over the younger member's of the squad.

 

And we have plenty of young talent at the club which has been rumored to have been the best crop of young talent at any club in the last 10 years or so!!!

 

I would hate that progress to be fucked up by the risk of in fighting or a power struggle at the helm of the first team. Its a genuine concern!!

[benite]

If they've too much power then get rid of them. No players should be as powerful as Chelsea's (and maybe some of ours) are. They aren't exactly putting in great performances every week either.

 

Would certainly agree there

[goatboy59]

'Patience' and 'time' are the ultimate conundrums in football.

 

If a manager is improving things, gradually if need be, then he doesn't have to ask for anything as he is doing what is being asked of him.

 

It's when results are poor, shite even, that he asks for patience. Then it's up to the people in charge if they can see they've definitely got the right man, and there's no hard or fast rule for that.

 

Examples of impatience rewarded? Rioch had done better in the league for Arsenal, but Dein wanted Wenger. Ranieri had improved Chelsea with Roman's millions but Mourinho was brought in. There was national outrage about Hughton's fate at Newcastle and bewilderment bordering on mockery at the announcement of his replacement. That's gone a bit quiet, but it might flare up again next season (as it did for Pardew at West Ham).

 

People are currently being very dismissive of our cup form, like it can't be used to gauge the season as a whole. If people don't see any cause for optimism, or they don't see enough more accurately, then fine.

 

But don't pretend you'll be patient with the next guy when he doesn't improve things immediately, because you won't.

[PaulMcC]

Kenny should get another season. He has to rectify his mistakes, though.

 

If it goes as wrong next season in the league as it has this, i think we'll be out of CL for a long time.

[Colonol]

Can anyone see Kenny winning the league in the next 5 years? I don't think we have a hope of winning the league so we really have fallen from where we once were. If Kenny can't win the league then there is not really anything better he can achieve if he wins a cup double this season. It is the perfect way to go out. Staying on will lead to the inevitable hounding out on a large scale and he doesn't deserve that. We need a rebuild and it will take many years to achieve.

 

The first priority is to get back into the top 4 and then move on from there.

[benite]

Kenny should get another season. He has to rectify his mistakes, though.

 

If it goes as wrong next season in the league as it has this, i think we'll be out of CL for a long time.

 

You don't think its too much of a risk to leave kenny there.......bearing in mind that if we start like we've finished this one its unlikely he'll see October 2012 in the position he's in now.

 

Don't get me wrong here, Ive more than defended kenny this season, Ive put more blame on the shoulders of the players than anyone.

 

I just fear kenny being hounded out of the club that he simply adores and deserves to be at in some sort of role or another.

[PaulMcC]

You don't think its too much of a risk to leave kenny there.......bearing in mind that if we start like we've finished this one its unlikely he'll see October 2012 in the position he's in now.

 

Don't get me wrong here, Ive more than defended kenny this season, Ive put more blame on the shoulders of the players than anyone.

 

I just fear kenny being hounded out of the club that he simply adores and deserves to be at in some sort of role or another.

 

It's a risk but so is sacking him.

[Bjornebye]

Fucking hell, you're so galactically dense that you're almost a singularity.

 

I was being ironic you fucking whopper

[Colonol]

He will never be sacked. He will leave "by mutual consent". There will be no malice in it. The owners would never be stupid to just fuck him off. He will remain at the club in another role if he so wishes. He said he was here till when he was needed. He will always be needed but maybe not as manager anymore.

[xerxes]

You don't think its too much of a risk to leave kenny there........

I think that the risk of replacing him is greater. Who would make the appointment? No-one at Board level has any experience of making such appointments at this level.

 

The bold step would be to appoint Louis van Gaal as DOF, a heavyweight, senior to Kenny in managerial experience, or (and I am not a Rafanista), Benitez whose experience with us, Valencia, Madrid and Inter makes him a very strong candidate.

[TheHowieLama]

The manager of the team next year needs to have a couple of strong traits.

One is a proven ability with a youth setup and seeing those players into the first team. Another would be alot of time for the job and the energy it is going to take to put in the hours that will be needed over the next four or five years, not the next four or five months.

[silverlining]

 

Examples of impatience rewarded? Rioch had done better in the league for Arsenal, but Dein wanted Wenger. Ranieri had improved Chelsea with Roman's millions but Mourinho was brought in. There was national outrage about Hughton's fate at Newcastle and bewilderment bordering on mockery at the announcement of his replacement. That's gone a bit quiet, but it might flare up again next season (as it did for Pardew at West Ham).

 

 

Yeah, I get that. Although regarding Ranieri, replacing him with Mourinho was an obvious choice, given that one had just won the European Cup and the other was fucking shit and never won anything.

 

But like anything else, there's an element of risk in whatever you do. Certainly you try as much as you can to remove emotion from any decision, and be as objective as possible.

 

I remember having several heated debates when discussing who should take over from Budgie, in that if we could get Kenny in as caretaker and then get Mourinho in summer, we should certainly do that, because he's a better manager than Kenny.

[Gym Beglin]

I hope, and pray, that Rafa gets his job back. The job he should never have lost in the first place.

 

I don't give a fuck if forums go into meltdown, i just wouldn't go on them, I'll just watch the games and back the manager to drag us into the 21st century.

 

Any other managerial appointment, while Rafa is still available, is quite simply wrong. Even on paper, it's wrong. Especially on paper.

 

 

Kenny should do a Bobby Charlton. Just smile for the cameras and attend the games and look dignified. Fuck knows why or what he does at United, but he's just there. Kenny's earned a retirement, not fucking around the youth system or scouting.