Bellers

[Glen C]

If we're playing players on merit then he deserves to start against wolves. Carroll should be on the bench until he improves. The movement of bellamy, suarez and kuyt is awesome and they all have terrific workrate as well.

[Randy Marsh]

 

 

Pure propaganda. The sequence was that we bought Torres, sold Bellamy and then bought Babel. Selling Bellamy to buy Torres sounds better than selling him to buy Babel though, doesn't it?

 

Ok, I don't really want to delve too deep in to the sequence of events because obviously threads on here tend to nose dive when the period between 2004 and 2010 is discussed (not blaming yourself at all).

 

All I will say is that at the time Babel and Torres were regarded as two very exciting signings, and I don't think its unfair to say that Bellamy was sold to help cover that summer's dealings, regardless of the order in which players came in. We operated a sell to buy policy.

[TheHitman]

Also worth mentioning we are playing at a lower level now and our expectations are lower.

 

Bellamy will be a good asset in this squad, but he wouldn't get into the the mancs City or Chelsea line-up. No disrespect to Bellamy, just more of an indictment of what H&G reign did to our squad.

 

As harsh as it sounds I don't want Bellamy to play much, as that means we have managed to get Carroll & Suarez working together.

[zigackly]

All I will say is that at the time Babel and Torres were regarded as two very exciting signings, and I don't think its unfair to say that Bellamy was sold to help cover that summer's dealings, regardless of the order in which players came in. We operated a sell to buy policy.

 

You see it that way, I see it the other way. Bellamy has been much better than Babel, playing mainly on the left, for every club he has played for after we sold him.

 

It was a mistake to replace him with Babel, pure and simple. They do happen, regardless of which manager makes them, and they all do. Not that I particularly care to get into a Rafa discussion now. I have just never liked the simplistic argument that we had to sell Bellamy to buy Torres, because it's patently untrue. Both from the financial point of view and the balance of the squad.

Edited September 22, 2011 by zigackly

[zigackly]

Just to add to my last post, because it's too late to edit it; I'm not saying this to have a go at an ex manager, just to point out that the argument that we had to sell Bellamy to buy Torres is invalid. We could have had Torres and Bellamy in the squad and saved a few million quid on Babel. It's one of those arguments which sounds easy to make in retrospect but I have been saying it since that time, so I don't feel as if I'm using 20/20 hindsight.

[markcd]

If people use the term 'Bellers' in an ironic way, is it any less twattish? I'm going to stick my neck out, and say no.

[zigackly]

It's only one less syllable than Bellamy. Is the saving in breath ever actually worth the cringe factor?

[TheHitman]

He had a few injury problems did Bellamy, just checked the stats he only played 9 in his first season, followed by 17 in his second season at the Hammers.

 

Whilst the majority would agree the Ryan signing just did not work out, If Bellamy had stayed he would have been classed as a sicknote by the majority. All in all happy to have him back, but doubt it would have changed much if he had been here.

[Il Fenomeno]

You see it that way, I see it the other way. Bellamy has been much better than Babel, playing mainly on the left, for every club he has played for after we sold him.

 

It was a mistake to replace him with Babel, pure and simple. They do happen, regardless of which manager makes them, and they all do. Not that I particularly care to get into a Rafa discussion now. I have just never liked the simplistic argument that we had to sell Bellamy to buy Torres, because it's patently untrue. Both from the financial point of view and the balance of the squad.

 

You aren't taking into account that Bellamy had dodgy knees at the time, had he not met Raymond Verheijen by coincidence then he would be finished as a top level player. Anyway, Benayoun was confirmed before Babel, so surely going by the logic that Bellamy is a left winger, then Benayoun was his replacement, and we got him for less than we sold Bellamy, while cutting the wage bill to make room for a promising, long term left wingers in Babel and Leto.

 

Harry Kewell, Leto, Babel, Bellamy and Benayoun all vying for the same place in the team was simply too much, so Rafa got rid of the one with the biggest sell on value, and least long term potential. Plus he couldn't have played upfront because he was not as good as Kuyt, Crouch or Torres and was ill-suited to the lone striker role, which is what Rafa wanted to play.

[Guest TK-421]

If only bellers could stick his neck out, just once, and utter the immortal word "no".

[kalasoma]

Go out on a limb and just refer to him as "Bells", as in "rock the"?

[zigackly]

You aren't taking into account that Bellamy had dodgy knees at the time, had he not met Raymond Verheijen by coincidence then he would be finished as a top level player.

 

By coincidence, you say? And this Raymond Verheijen is in possession of singular medicinal powers which nobody else in the entire world is capable of exhibiting?

 

I'm ignoring the rest of your logic chopping because it's a pointless argument. If you can't accept that it was a mistake to sell him when we did, because it weakened our squad, then that's your problem not mine. I've given you my opinion on the matter and the facts bear me out, since he has been a lot better than his replacement (If you can have Torres or Benayoun, I can have Babel, so there) throughout the intervening years until we resigned him.

 

If we had kept him, I firmly believe he would have been brilliant on the left for us where we have not had one decent player since he left until this summer, as he was for Man City for instance at the top level.

Edited September 22, 2011 by zigackly

[Guest TK-421]

Bellers was a typical Rafa quick turnover signing. Signed for 6m, sold for 7.5m. Basically a free year's service out of him. It was the right thing to do to activate his release clause when he was at Blackburn, as for selling him you could argue all day. My own view is that it was worth it if it was necessary to free up wages and raise a bit of capital for the incoming players.

[MLB]

Always liked Bellamy and I'm glad to see him back. Hope he starts against Wolves.

[zigackly]

Bellers was a typical Rafa quick turnover signing. Signed for 6m, sold for 7.5m. Basically a free year's service out of him. It was the right thing to do to activate his release clause when he was at Blackburn, as for selling him you could argue all day. My own view is that it was worth it if it was necessary to free up wages and raise a bit of capital for the incoming players.

 

Which is all perfectly fine, but I am on the other side of the fence with him; I feel he could have been an asset to us all along and would have been worth more to us than the £1.5M profit we made

 

Anyway, apologies for sidetracking the thread.

 

It's a damn shame that free kick never went in last night eh? That was as hard as I've ever seen a standing ball struck I think.

[Il Fenomeno]

He does have unique methods, yes. But they seem to have worked for Bellamy, who says he feels as fit as he ever has been.

 

Maybe coincidence was the wrong word to use, but he wasn't brought in with the sole purpose of fixing Bellamy up, so it was maybe more lucky that Bellamy got to do a pre-season training with him at Man City before he was finished completely as a player because he was training too much. You only have to read Bellamy's quotes on Verheijen to see how highly he regards him as a personal trainer/fitness advisor. And the fact that he paid money from his own pocket to have Verheijen work with him at Cardiff speaks for itself.

 

I don't believe it did weaken our team, so I don't have to accept it. I don't see where he fitted into the team. We already had Benayoun and Kewell on the left, plus Babel and Leto as youngsters coming in. We had Kuyt, Crouch, Torres and Voronin upfront. Having Bellamy there would've just been an expensive luxury for us, which is something H&G would never have let happen at the club.

 

Benitez made plenty of mistakes, selling Bellamy wasn't.

[zigackly]

Bellamy is and has been better on the left than any of the players you mention. Forgive me if I'm incorrect, but I believe you have simply constructed a narrative that allows you to believe it was not a mistake because of your sense of loyalty to the manager at the time. The fact is that no-one we have brought in, in the intervening years, has been better on the left than Bellamy, until this summer.

 

As for Verheijen, I think his uniqueness is only in the fact that he's a more prolific twitter user than any other physio in the world. Bad knees means you should train less, you say? If only someone had thought of that for Ledley King he could still be playing at a team with aspirations for the top end of the table today.

[Wor Horse]

Considering he's a better player now than what he was when he was here, it's definitely a mistake.

 

He should have been given longer to settle in and he could have matured here as opposed to at Man City.

[Guest TK-421]

What if finances dictated we had to sell a player to bring in the ones we wanted? This football management lark is a piece of piss in hindsight.

[zigackly]

What if finances dictated we had to sell a player to bring in the ones we wanted?

 

It was a mistake to buy Babel, sell Bellamy and waste something like four million quid in that case, no? Surely you can at least admit that it was a mistake in retrospect even if you were excited about Babel at the time? Personally I would have rather kept Bellamy back then, and his performances since have done nothing to convince me otherwise.

[Hermes]

Kenny is terrified of not picking him. Bellamy told him "If I don't get a game, I'll have to find another club".

[Ramjet]

Kenny is terrified of not picking him. Bellamy told him "If I don't get a game, I'll have to find another club".

 

Do you really think he wood?

[Duff Man]

It was a mistake to buy Babel, sell Bellamy and waste something like four million quid in that case, no? Surely you can at least admit that it was a mistake in retrospect even if you were excited about Babel at the time? Personally I would have rather kept Bellamy back then, and his performances since have done nothing to convince me otherwise.

 

Looking back I suppose it may have been a mistake not to try Bellamy on the left but then nobody considered him to be a wide player back then, did they? He'd spent most of his career playing up front. If Bellamy had played ace on the left for us that season and we'd fucked him off for Babel you might have a point. But he hadn't, he'd played up front and been average so I don't really see what you're going on about.

[zigackly]

Looking back I suppose it may have been a mistake not to try Bellamy on the left but then nobody considered him to be a wide player back then, did they? He'd spent most of his career playing up front. If Bellamy had played ace on the left for us that season and we'd fucked him off for Babel you might have a point. But he hadn't, he'd played up front and been average so I don't really see what you're going on about.

 

He'd played on the left for Newcastle a fair bit and was ace. If you're arguing that you didn't know that at the time then fair enough.

[Duff Man]

*confused*

 

Er, no, that's not what I was arguing.