'Liverpool fan' questioning News International execs tmrw….

[nickjt]

I’d be interested to hear how many people on this website would genuinely and honestly practise the socialism that Shanks speaks of if they were lucky enough to have success in their professional life. I think it’d be a hell of a lot less then the people ready to quote it and claim it as genius.

 

I understand, and in a lot of cases, agree with strength in numbers and the idea of what is good for one is good or all, but even in those cases, the majority want the most they can get for themselves. It's not about what's a fair deal, it's about what's the very most we can squeeze them for.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I have no interest in listening to football people telling me how I should live my life. I'd rather they just spoke about what they were truly good at, and that's football. I suppose in a way it somewhat annoys me when people treat a person who is clearly supremely gifted at one thing as if they are gifted at everything. And yes, with total respect, admiration and downright awe and love, I include Shanks, in that.

 

EDIT – By the way, not directed at you Zig, I’ve no idea of your ideals.

 

Fair point, but I don't think its true what you say about the majority. Society imo has been made to act this way with capitalism bombardment about rubbish like equity in houses etc. I think the majority of us just want fairness, not full blown socialism but fairness. If people listen to the Shankly recordings you just can't disagree with what he says, now why do we allow barriers to stand on the way of that? I've done relatively ok at work, but just can't be inspired into working for a companys profit, I imagine the vast majority feel the same. Put me in front of Mr Shankly and the city would have had the cleanest streets and I'd be getting my fair share.

[Whelan]

Lets not get too romantic about the past, Bill's soundbites are what we all remember, but his treatment of players, and especially injured players was anything but 'socialist'! Maybe it was a flaw, maybe it was a squewed sense of socialism, but his actions sometimes bordered on dictatorship.

 

Which is how it should be, for all the ideals of socialism he espoused in his personal life when it came to football managment he was a dictator!

 

If we are discounting Tories from supporting Liverpool then we should remember Paul Jewells quip about being the only Labour Voter in the dressing room.

[JohnnyH]

That's the beauty of Shanks, he's an ideal, a utopian dream that most of us mere mortals couldn't possibly live up to. We're still better for having him as an aspiration though

 

I agree. Shanks couldn’t come close to living up to being Shanks if he was still around today. The idea is so much more then the actual. Having said that, it doesn’t for one second diminish the greatness of him as a footballing man. When you see what he created and what he changed at the club it is amazing. Even down to the fact that Shanks was the first manager to actually pick a Liverpool team. Even the things Shankly was bad at are painted up as positive qualities. But that’s how it should be. He is the father figure of LFC and should be idolised in that way and out up on a pedestal.

[JohnnyH]

Fair point, but I don't think its true what you say about the majority. Society imo has been made to act this way with capitalism bombardment about rubbish like equity in houses etc. I think the majority of us just want fairness, not full blown socialism but fairness. If people listen to the Shankly recordings you just can't disagree with what he says, now why do we allow barriers to stand on the way of that? I've done relatively ok at work, but just can't be inspired into working for a companys profit, I imagine the vast majority feel the same. Put me in front of Mr Shankly and the city would have had the cleanest streets and I'd be getting my fair share.

 

I agree with some of what he has said and disagree with other parts, but it’s very easy to say that everyone should get their fair share and work hard at it. Who’s going to disagree with that? But the problems arise when you start attaching an actual figure to the term “fair share”. Most people always think they are worth more. I think I’d be fairly right in saying that the vast majority of people would automatically take the higher salary if they were offered two, regardless of how it may affect some other person they will never ever know or see or even be aware of. Wanting the best for yourself and for your family is a standard for most people, and they will make hay while the sun shines if they can.

[zigackly]

EDIT – By the way, not directed at you Zig, I’ve no idea of your ideals.

 

I'm firmly socialist Johnny, even if it's not very fashionable these days.

[chorlton]

Lets not get too romantic about the past, Bill's soundbites are what we all remember, but his treatment of players, and especially injured players was anything but 'socialist'! Maybe it was a flaw, maybe it was a squewed sense of socialism, but his actions sometimes bordered on dictatorship.

 

Which is how it should be, for all the ideals of socialism he espoused in his personal life when it came to football managment he was a dictator!

 

If we are discounting Tories from supporting Liverpool then we should remember Paul Jewells quip about being the only Labour Voter in the dressing room.

 

Benign Dictorship is the way! As i'm sure you'll agree, or you can choose to not agree, but if you want to see your family again comrade....

 

I don't expect footballers to be sociallists though really, it's just a nice surprise when they are, but one of the things i love about our club are it's ideals. Ideals which i find very hard to equate to any tory doctrine.

[Whelan]

Benign Dictorship is the way! As i'm sure you'll agree, or you can choose to not agree, but if you want to see your family again comrade....

 

I don't expect footballers to be sociallists though really, it's just a nice surprise when they are, but one of the things i love about our club are it's ideals. Ideals which i find very hard to equate to any tory doctrine.

 

I think Shankly was talking about a Football team, and a philosophy that was rooted in Liverpool as a City, the Club that we know of today is a global force, so his style and philosophy was always in danger of losing its relevance as it left the UK, and time has simply added to that. I think the style of Conservatism during the 60's & 70's is entirely different to Thatcherism and what know of as being Conservative today. I still think of the club and the city as being linked, so to me what Liverpool stands for as a city is what I think the Club stands for. I don't like 'isms', far to reliant upon ignoring human characteristics, and Shankly's socialism doesn't stand up when considering his managment of the team.

 

I think the money that footballers earn today enables them to be more sympathetic to their socialist roots as they don't really have to worry about maximising their earnings, whereas previous generations did. If you know what I mean?

[Strontium]

I think this would be the right time to remind people that our football club was founded by a Tory politician.

[Ponz]

Aye, Tories don't do common goals though. They do survival of the fittest dressed up as common goals.

 

And socialism has destroyed independent civil society wherever it's been practiced.

[elBooth]

I agree with some of what he has said and disagree with other parts, but it’s very easy to say that everyone should get their fair share and work hard at it. Who’s going to disagree with that? But the problems arise when you start attaching an actual figure to the term “fair share”. Most people always think they are worth more. I think I’d be fairly right in saying that the vast majority of people would automatically take the higher salary if they were offered two, regardless of how it may affect some other person they will never ever know or see or even be aware of. Wanting the best for yourself and for your family is a standard for most people, and they will make hay while the sun shines if they can.

 

It's a fair point mate but that's not a problem with Socialism that's people who clearly aren't socialists. I truly believe if people stood together and fought for their rights as a unified group we'd all be better off in the long run, together. Unfortunately i can't help but think it's the people you've described above that will always be the major flaw in the idea of socialism.

 

Anyway wasn't aimed at you (if it came across as shitty), that part above was just the perfect point for me to elaborate on.

[gkmacca]

She just shoehorned a reference to Hillsborough into the questions. No pressure on him though, but she mentioned it in a vague way.

[gkmacca]

An amazing croak-voiced dalek that Rupert has next to him. I wonder who built it?

[Barrington Womble]

She just shoehorned a reference to Hillsborough into the questions. No pressure on him though, but she mentioned it in a vague way.

 

Hasn't he responded by saying the headline from hillsborough was "just a matter of taste"? fucking cunt.

[Barrington Womble]

I think this would be the right time to remind people that our football club was founded by a Tory politician.

 

I thought he was an orange councillor, not a Tory.

[Strontium]

I thought he was an orange councillor, not a Tory.

 

 

Nope, Conservative through and through.

 

Good thing too, else we may never have been formed in the first place.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Nope, Conservative through and through.

 

Good thing too, else we may never have been formed in the first place.

 

Doesn't matter, no Tory cunts have any business supporting our club.