My internet

[dennis tooth]

Sorry dude, I build and manage enterprise wireless networks for a living. I'm actually heavily qualified in this field.

 

The reason for the "above 3 feet", is to mitigate the effects of delay spread through signal reflection straight from the floor. Only really necessary, on a shiny surface, not carpet (mosy peoples homes).

 

Channel overlap is not a theory, it's good practice to have seperation between the channels to avoid interference. Although you can use the non-recommended channels, i'd only recommend that after a thorough site survey with the use of a spectrum analyser.

 

It's not a case of higher frequency the better, and not use the channel that no-one else is using. I bet nobody in my area is on channel 2, but I wouldn't use it because it overlaps with channel 1, thus causing interference.

 

To further expand your knowledge on the subject, I recommend reading the study guide for CWNA CWNA: Certified Wireless Network Administrator Official Study Guide: Exam PW0-104 CWNP Official Study Guides: Amazon.co.uk: David D. Coleman, David A. Westcott: Books It expands on a lot of the topics i've touched on, such as delay spread, signal propagation, channel patterns/frequencies/channel seperation.

 

And no, if I put my TV aerial on the floor I probably wouldn't get a good picture. But that is a reciever, not transceiver as is the case with all wireless routers/modems.

 

Well OK, let's begin then.

 

"I build and manage enterprise wireless networks for a living."

Broadly speaking nothing you are saying disagrees with what I've said.

All of that study material is useless knowledge as it's not remotely relevant in practice. I know the product, I have given the solution, he can't even be arsed to try it on 1 or 13 and if he did we would put paid to this nonsense, you turning up with your books doesn't change a thing. What I said was he needs to get a channel no one else is using-as a starting point to determine what end of the spectrum from 1 to 13 he needs to use, then fine tune from there. It's called black box thinking and I'm sure you are aware of it. You are not any more qualified than me on the subject as even if you do what you say you do, you will be very unlikely to have the actual experience of fixing these issue with the exact same product in question hundreds of times, I can assure you, no amount of book theory will assist on the same scale, however without a willing participant to demonstrate this it's a bit moot.

 

"I build and manage enterprise wireless networks for a living." Which networks? For whom? Yourself more like? I won't even comment on my work in relation to yours but it sounds a bit vague for me so if you are so confident about your credentials over mine then you can answer that. I can only go off the advice you have given and some of it is quite poor and the sort of erroneous advice I have to correct and clarify everyday when people call up having followed such advice coming to me to do so.

 

All we are doing is wasting our time. I speak to 2 or 3 people a day who are using channel 11 because someone such as yourself getting carried away with what they think they know, has recommended it.

We don't know whether this man has a shiny floor or not so such assumptions are moot, even if they are correct in this case.

 

Here's what you said:

 

"Channels 1,6 and 11 are where the smart money is."

 

But as I pointed out, channel 6 is the most commonly used by default, so that's just crap, statistically you are more likely to have interference on channel 6 than any other but here you explicitly recommend it. 11 is neither here nor there, you may as well pick 13 over 11 as you are trying to move away from sources of interference here not closer, if someone's using channel 1 then you are logically closer to 11 than 13 are you not? Channel 1 is as I say in relation to 13 a starting point to find the best channel as every environment is different.

 

 

"But you should let the router choose the least congested channel of it's own accord."

 

But I already told you I know the product the auto channel is shite with this product and none of your books will tell you that. It's on auto channel by default also, something you don't appear to be aware of, if it worked this issue would not even be on here.

 

So you are a day late and a dollar short my friend.

[Guest Scaramanga]

Well OK, let's begin then.

 

"I build and manage enterprise wireless networks for a living."

Broadly speaking nothing you are saying disagrees with what I've said.

All of that study material is useless knowledge as it's not remotely relevant in practice. I know the product, I have given the solution, he can't even be arsed to try it on 1 or 13 and if he did we would put paid to this nonsense, you turning up with your books doesn't change a thing. What I said was he needs to get a channel no one else is using-as a starting point to determine what end of the spectrum from 1 to 13 he needs to use, then fine tune from there. It's called black box thinking and I'm sure you are aware of it. You are not any more qualified than me on the subject as even if you do what you say you do, you will be very unlikely to have the actual experience of fixing these issue with the exact same product in question hundreds of times, I can assure you, no amount of book theory will assist on the same scale, however without a willing participant to demonstrate this it's a bit moot.

 

That's called guesswork.

Although you can use the non-recommended channels, i'd only recommend that after a thorough site survey with the use of a spectrum analyser.

 

One of my three CCIE's is Wireless, so I think i'm pretty qualified on the subject.

 

"I build and manage enterprise wireless networks for a living." Which networks? For whom? Yourself more like? I won't even comment on my work in relation to yours but it sounds a bit vague for me so if you are so confident about your credentials over mine then you can answer that. I can only go off the advice you have given and some of it is quite poor and the sort of erroneous advice I have to correct and clarify everyday when people call up having followed such advice coming to me to do so.

 

I've worked for a lot of companies specialising in wireless networks, and a few mobile operators as well. I don't build large scale networks in my spare room, and I certainly don't work on a helpdesk, guessing peoples problems.

 

All we are doing is wasting our time. I speak to 2 or 3 people a day who are using channel 11 because someone such as yourself getting carried away with what they think they know, has recommended it.

We don't know whether this man has a shiny floor or not so such assumptions are moot, even if they are correct in this case.

 

Like i said in my previous post, read a book or even a wikipedia entry on signal propagation.

 

Here's what you said:

 

"Channels 1,6 and 11 are where the smart money is."

 

But as I pointed out, channel 6 is the most commonly used by default, so that's just crap, statistically you are more likely to have interference on channel 6 than any other but here you explicitly recommend it. 11 is neither here nor there, you may as well pick 13 over 11 as you are trying to move away from sources of interference here not closer, if someone's using channel 1 then you are logically closer to 11 than 13 are you not? Channel 1 is as I say in relation to 13 a starting point to find the best channel as every environment is different.

 

Do you even understand how channel overlap works? Or how interference is caused? Or even the types of interference?

(All rhetorical questions)

 

 

"But you should let the router choose the least congested channel of it's own accord."

 

But I already told you I know the product the auto channel is shite with this product and none of your books will tell you that. It's on auto channel by default also, something you don't appear to be aware of, if it worked this issue would not even be on here.

 

So you are a day late and a dollar short my friend.

 

Do you understand how channel selection works?

(Again, rhetorical)

 

I'd seriously consider reading up on the 802.11 standard dude, and not be complacent in the fact that your "all-knowing" when it comes to WIFI.

 

Because your clearly not.

[Wor Horse]

What did I start?!

[dennis tooth]

That's called guesswork.

 

 

One of my three CCIE's is Wireless, so I think i'm pretty qualified on the subject.

 

 

 

I've worked for a lot of companies specialising in wireless networks, and a few mobile operators as well. I don't build large scale networks in my spare room, and I certainly don't work on a helpdesk, guessing peoples problems.

 

 

 

Like i said in my previous post, read a book or even a wikipedia entry on signal propagation.

 

 

 

Do you even understand how channel overlap works? Or how interference is caused? Or even the types of interference?

(All rhetorical questions)

 

 

 

 

Do you understand how channel selection works?

(Again, rhetorical)

 

I'd seriously consider reading up on the 802.11 standard dude, and not be complacent in the fact that your "all-knowing" when it comes to WIFI.

 

Because your clearly not.

 

 

 

Yeah except you reccomend he used channel 6 the most commonly used channel and then the autochannel which clearly failed in the first instance so your lack of product knowledge is stunning.

 

So, you worked for a company but not dealing with the public fixing residential issues in areas where sometimes there are 14/15 wireless networks in built up areas such as flats or student accomodations and successfully fixed such problems day in day out, over the phone for the past 3 years without the luxury of being able to physically touch the router yourself and talking old dears and people who are barely able to switch on a pc through it all and all the associated issues from that? Thought not.

As for 'guessing' peoples problems, it is your guesswork at play here not mine, for all your apparent knowledge you are very ignorant to reccomend the auto/channel 6 1st off. There is very little anyone needs to know about wireless, very little indeed, I bet you think you are great having all sorts of useless knowledge of no consequence for anyone but your own ego. I offered free advice that is much more qualified than you in this instance to a 3rd party and you came wading in thinking it was some sort of dick measuring contest and lost, despite all your hard studying.

 

If my PSU blows on my pc I don't need someone who specialises in PSU's, I just need to replace it, your knowledge is of no consequence here becuase I fix this product having the exact same issue, day in day out, that's practical knowledge from trial and error that you don't have. The stuff you keep spouting about overlaps is of very little consequence at all, if it works best on a certain channel then it works best on that channel and all the books in the world won't change that.

 

There is a logical progression I employ here, black box thinking when dealing with unknown unknowns means you work a certain method to find the solution, in this case you try 1 and 13 as a starting point, 11 doesn't come into it unless 1 doesn't work and 13 works but not great, then you try 11.

You have offered no such insight and made a few assumptions as you don't have the practical knowledge I have, you offered 3 channels and then the auto channel, I offered two because my knowledge cuts yours down, 6 is one to avoid unless in an isolated area(As is probably dictated by your experience dealing with company wireless and lack of product knowledge.) as is the autochannel as I know it would have been in that state when installed (Product knowledge, see.) and 11 is a channel state I correct everyday because someone with you lack of practical knowledge has told them to have it on 'the best' ch:11, normally a quick change to 13 will sort this. This would cut down his troubleshooting in half compared to if he followed your method, shortest available path and all that jazz.

 

If you can find some fault with that method of troubleshooting the issue let me know as you have failed to do so on every post so far or offer anything of note except knowledge which is nothing without the correct kind of thinking to sift through to whats important and cut it down so add all kinds of useless info which helps nothing. If I ever need to know all that I'll let you know but while I'm all for more knowledge I am trying to cut out the useless stuff, the guy needed to change his channel and couldn't be arsed, so why should I help him but if you wish to carry this on, please do but I really see no real outcome for you here.

[Guest San Don]

You cant do an accurate speed test wirelessly, you have to be connected to your router via a lan cable.

[Guest Scaramanga]

Yeah except you reccomend he used channel 6 the most commonly used channel and then the autochannel which clearly failed in the first instance so your lack of product knowledge is stunning.

 

1. So, you worked for a company but not dealing with the public fixing residential issues in areas where sometimes there are 14/15 wireless networks in built up areas such as flats or student accomodations and successfully fixed such problems day in day out, over the phone for the past 3 years without the luxury of being able to physically touch the router yourself and talking old dears and people who are barely able to switch on a pc through it all and all the associated issues from that? Thought not.

 

2. As for 'guessing' peoples problems, it is your guesswork at play here not mine, for all your apparent knowledge you are very ignorant to reccomend the auto/channel 6 1st off. There is very little anyone needs to know about wireless, very little indeed, I bet you think you are great having all sorts of useless knowledge of no consequence for anyone but your own ego. I offered free advice that is much more qualified than you in this instance to a 3rd party and you came wading in thinking it was some sort of dick measuring contest and lost, despite all your hard studying.

 

3. If my PSU blows on my pc I don't need someone who specialises in PSU's, I just need to replace it, your knowledge is of no consequence here becuase I fix this product having the exact same issue, day in day out, that's practical knowledge from trial and error that you don't have. The stuff you keep spouting about overlaps is of very little consequence at all, if it works best on a certain channel then it works best on that channel and all the books in the world won't change that.

 

3. There is a logical progression I employ here, black box thinking when dealing with unknown unknowns means you work a certain method to find the solution, in this case you try 1 and 13 as a starting point, 11 doesn't come into it unless 1 doesn't work and 13 works but not great, then you try 11.

You have offered no such insight and made a few assumptions as you don't have the practical knowledge I have, you offered 3 channels and then the auto channel, I offered two because my knowledge cuts yours down, 6 is one to avoid unless in an isolated area(As is probably dictated by your experience dealing with company wireless and lack of product knowledge.) as is the autochannel as I know it would have been in that state when installed (Product knowledge, see.) and 11 is a channel state I correct everyday because someone with you lack of practical knowledge has told them to have it on 'the best' ch:11, normally a quick change to 13 will sort this. This would cut down his troubleshooting in half compared to if he followed your method, shortest available path and all that jazz.

 

4. If you can find some fault with that method of troubleshooting the issue let me know as you have failed to do so on every post so far or offer anything of note except knowledge which is nothing without the correct kind of thinking to sift through to whats important and cut it down so add all kinds of useless info which helps nothing. If I ever need to know all that I'll let you know but while I'm all for more knowledge I am trying to cut out the useless stuff, the guy needed to change his channel and couldn't be arsed, so why should I help him but if you wish to carry this on, please do but I really see no real outcome for you here.

 

1. I used to fix these kind of problems, when I was still at a level that required me to work on a helpdesk. I don't anymore. Fortunately. And having the ability to log into the router yourself, rather than relying on information given by customers with the technical ability of a shoe is priceless. Something you'll (maybe) experience one day.

 

2. I didn't say specifically to use channel 6, I only recommended choosing a non-overlapping channel, and if using an overlapping channel, perform a thorough survey (re-read my posts). There's a reason why I wouldn't automatically choose channel 13, but rather than telling you, you can find out for yourself, rather than making it up.

 

Other than that, I offered no advice or insights into the problem. Pay me for it, then i'll fix it. Otherwise, call your service desk, it's what you pay them for.

 

And if you think there is very little to know about wireless, you must be completely clueless. There is lots to learn, as evidenced by your lack of knowledge. For example - "the stuff you keep spouting about overlaps is of very little consequence at all." You obviously don't know or don't understand why every wireless device doesn't just choose a random channel if overlap is "of no consequence".

 

As for the "dick measuring" contest, I pointed something out, nothing more. You came wading back in with your limited knowledge, and I don't like people questioning my ability or experience (which you did). Go on, you can admit it. I've probably got more networking qualifications and experience than anyone at your company (you don't have to admit this. I already know).

 

Oh, and see point 4 for your qualified advice.

 

3. Waffle.

 

4. Your fault in troubleshooting - You kept banging on about the wireless issue even though he stated that it was slow using a wired connection, and your initial diagnosis was make sure the router is not on the floor and on channel 1 or 13. You didn't even ask for more info to rule out certain things, that would have been the smart move.

 

That, is a laughable diagnosis.

 

I would suggest, if there's nothing more for you to learn about wireless, then keep doing what you do. Giving poor advice, that doesn't consider all factors involved. If i had a tenner for everytime I heard a helpdesk monkey call interference as the issue, but be completely wrong, i'd be a very rich man.

 

But if you want to expand your knowledge on the 802.11 standard, go pick up the CWNA or CCNA Wireless book (or any wireless book), expand your mind, and grab yourself a qualification.

 

Then I might begin to take you seriously.

[dennis tooth]

1. I used to fix these kind of problems, when I was still at a level that required me to work on a helpdesk. I don't anymore. Fortunately. And having the ability to log into the router yourself, rather than relying on information given by customers with the technical ability of a shoe is priceless. Something you'll (maybe) experience one day.

 

2. I didn't say specifically to use channel 6, I only recommended choosing a non-overlapping channel, and if using an overlapping channel, perform a thorough survey (re-read my posts). There's a reason why I wouldn't automatically choose channel 13, but rather than telling you, you can find out for yourself, rather than making it up.

 

Other than that, I offered no advice or insights into the problem. Pay me for it, then i'll fix it. Otherwise, call your service desk, it's what you pay them for.

 

And if you think there is very little to know about wireless, you must be completely clueless. There is lots to learn, as evidenced by your lack of knowledge. For example - "the stuff you keep spouting about overlaps is of very little consequence at all." You obviously don't know or don't understand why every wireless device doesn't just choose a random channel if overlap is "of no consequence".

 

As for the "dick measuring" contest, I pointed something out, nothing more. You came wading back in with your limited knowledge, and I don't like people questioning my ability or experience (which you did). Go on, you can admit it. I've probably got more networking qualifications and experience than anyone at your company (you don't have to admit this. I already know).

 

Oh, and see point 4 for your qualified advice.

 

3. Waffle.

 

4. Your fault in troubleshooting - You kept banging on about the wireless issue even though he stated that it was slow using a wired connection, and your initial diagnosis was make sure the router is not on the floor and on channel 1 or 13. You didn't even ask for more info to rule out certain things, that would have been the smart move.

 

That, is a laughable diagnosis.

 

I would suggest, if there's nothing more for you to learn about wireless, then keep doing what you do. Giving poor advice, that doesn't consider all factors involved. If i had a tenner for everytime I heard a helpdesk monkey call interference as the issue, but be completely wrong, i'd be a very rich man.

 

But if you want to expand your knowledge on the 802.11 standard, go pick up the CWNA or CCNA Wireless book (or any wireless book), expand your mind, and grab yourself a qualification.

 

Then I might begin to take you seriously.

 

You're a condescending idiot, you are making all kinds of assumptions about myself and will end up looking sillier and sillier the longer you contine with it.

First off you've now told him to do all kinds of shite that was just a waste of his time and effort. All he need to do is test from the router config select 1 or 13 and then click apply on each, and then see what works, nothing more.

I have a CCNA qualification thank you, I did that about 9 years ago but thanks for the heads up on that, I don't need a CCNA wireless qualification because in practice there is little of any concern to anyone whatsoever in 99.9% of cases as evidence by what you have studied and having no input whatsoever of any consequence in practical terms for the assistance required by the poster. You only appear to have added confusion and arrogance into the mix, so well done there at least.

You can claim 'theres lots to learn about wireless' but the longer you continue with that the more you just look like a trainspotter claiming theres lots to learn about trains.

Sadly for you, you don't need a brain surgeon to empty bins you need a binman to do that job, a brain surgeon will only add to the confusion. So trying to act all high and mighty and look down upon someone on a helpdesk when that is the correct person to speak to for such issues only displays your arrogance. Arrogant people tend not to be very good at fixing things so I can see why you were moved on.

 

But if you want to expand your knowledge on the 802.11 standard, go pick up the CWNA or CCNA Wireless book (or any wireless book), expand your mind, and grab yourself a qualification.

Expand my mind, with what, loads of useless info I will never need to use to go with my qualification no one else will ever need?

 

4. Your fault in troubleshooting - You kept banging on about the wireless issue even though he stated that it was slow using a wired connection, and your initial diagnosis was make sure the router is not on the floor and on channel 1 or 13. You didn't even ask for more info to rule out certain things, that would have been the smart move.

 

Well firstly, he had said he was getting 49 mb wired at one point and then went a bit vague if you look carefully so I was not concerned with that I was concerned with his wireless coverage which I correctly pointed out was unrelated to the speeds wired, his wireless coverage should extend to his other rooms. If he has slow speeds wired consistently then he needs to call his isp to check that and go through his netstats etc and his modem power levels and so forth. Again, you are only adding confusion into the mix, don't tell me what the smart move is as you cannot assume other factors until you've tested the basics and the most common issues. In this case he showed no willingness to listen much or try anything himself, he just wanted to blame his ISP, I couldn't even get him to change the channel and you are throwing more variables into the mix and trying to complicate a very simple issue, saying I should ask for even more info I don't even need at this point and so I can 'rule out certain things'. He needs to begin somewhere, nice attempt to discredit me but again offering nothing you mong. Oh and there was no 'diagnosis' merely troubleshooting, you seem to struggle to distinguish....

 

I would suggest, if there's nothing more for you to learn about wireless, then keep doing what you do. Giving poor advice, that doesn't consider all factors involved. If i had a tenner for everytime I heard a helpdesk monkey call interference as the issue, but be completely wrong, i'd be a very rich man.

Yes, more assumptions and empty nonsense, you say it's 'poor advice' it's not its fixing this issue with real testing and trial and error using black box troubleshooting methods. There are monkeys in real life in every job, however I am not a 'monkey' sadly for you, I am only doing this job because of a pending court case in another matter and have worked in much more qualified roles than yourself previously that I left over 5 years ago to pursue a different career, not that I need to pretend that as even a helpdesk monkey wouldn't offer the kind of shite you are spouting here.. You say I give poor advice that doesn't consider all the factors involved when what works is what works, I don't offer an advice line, I offer a fixing line that fixes the issue and yes, fixing it and delivering means you've considered all the factors involved and I do get a tenner everytime I fix it so you can't have that tenner it's mine thanks. I've never needed any of these books to fix any of the hundreds I've fixed.

 

You obviously don't know or don't understand why every wireless device doesn't just choose a random channel if overlap is "of no consequence".

No cos it's not applicable, it's not remotely relevant any more than understanding the V6 engine will help you turn the key in the ignition. It doesn't matter when you are trying a channel if it doesn't work you go to the next channel and get the one you need to try whether it be 1 13 or 11 or whatever.

 

And having the ability to log into the router yourself, rather than relying on information given by customers with the technical ability of a shoe is priceless. Something you'll (maybe) experience one day.

Yes, thanks we do have the ability to log into these superhubs remotely and many of my fellow 'helpdesk monkey's' do so, so once again, you lack of product knowledge is FUCKING SHOCKING to lecture me. However I'm not a limited idiot like you and them and I'm not afraid of handling people.

First off by doing that you are not teaching them anything, you can get a channel that works but then if someone else a neighbour gets a router the next day then they could be back to square one and have to call in, Give a man a fish....show them how to do it, talk them through it and what to do if the issue reoccurs so they can manage it themselves.

I don't know, maybe you think that we are keepers of some sacred knowledge that the public must be protected by and that is why you are such an arrogant twat?

Secondly, laughing at a customer's technical ability is again, extremely arrogant, maybe a boxer will laugh at the technique of your punches whilst pummeling your face in rather than teach you how to throw a punch but I find actually helping people is the remit of the use of that knowledge not building a book fort to defend against all comers is maybe something you will experience one day?

 

Keep flailing mate you have not landed a single blow apart from blowing your own here.

Edited April 13, 2011 by dennis tooth

[George Costanza]

right ignore the fight going on....

 

Have you run the speedtest with both a wireless & wired connection? If they are both the same and you are still getting 10mb downlaod then i'm afraid thats whats your line is capable of. Just because you signed up for 50mb connection doesn't mean thats what you get.

 

There's millions of people who pay for 8mb or 20mb connection yet get 25-50% of thast as actual speed. Much depends on your line, contention ratio & how near you are to the local exchange.

 

Routers can make a difference in speed but if its an adsl 2+ router then what you have now is the best you can get till BT/Virgin improve the local infrastructural cabling

[Guest Scaramanga]

 

1.You're a condescending idiot, you are making all kinds of assumptions about myself and will end up looking sillier and sillier the longer you contine with it.

 

I have a CCNA qualification thank you, I did that about 9 years ago but thanks for the heads up on that...

 

Arrogant people tend not to be very good at fixing things so I can see why you were moved on.

 

2. Well firstly, he had said he was getting 49 mb wired at one point and then went a bit vague if you look carefully so I was not concerned with that I was concerned with his wireless coverage which I correctly pointed out was unrelated to the speeds wired, his wireless coverage should extend to his other rooms. If he has slow speeds wired consistently then he needs to call his isp to check that and go through his netstats etc and his modem power levels and so forth. Again, you are only adding confusion into the mix, don't tell me what the smart move is as you cannot assume other factors until you've tested the basics and the most common issues. In this case he showed no willingness to listen much or try anything himself, he just wanted to blame his ISP, I couldn't even get him to change the channel and you are throwing more variables into the mix and trying to complicate a very simple issue, saying I should ask for even more info I don't even need at this point and so I can 'rule out certain things'. He needs to begin somewhere, nice attempt to discredit me but again offering nothing you mong. Oh and there was no 'diagnosis' merely troubleshooting, you seem to struggle to distinguish....

 

 

3. Yes, more assumptions and empty nonsense, you say it's 'poor advice' it's not its fixing this issue with real testing and trial and error using black box troubleshooting methods. There are monkeys in real life in every job, however I am not a 'monkey' sadly for you, I am only doing this job because of a pending court case in another matter and have worked in much more qualified roles than yourself previously that I left over 5 years ago to pursue a different career, not that I need to pretend that as even a helpdesk monkey wouldn't offer the kind of shite you are spouting here.. You say I give poor advice that doesn't consider all the factors involved when what works is what works, I don't offer an advice line, I offer a fixing line that fixes the issue and yes, fixing it and delivering means you've considered all the factors involved and I do get a tenner everytime I fix it so you can't have that tenner it's mine thanks. I've never needed any of these books to fix any of the hundreds I've fixed.

 

4. No cos it's not applicable, it's not remotely relevant any more than understanding the V6 engine will help you turn the key in the ignition. It doesn't matter when you are trying a channel if it doesn't work you go to the next channel and get the one you need to try whether it be 1 13 or 11 or whatever.

 

 

5. Yes, thanks we do have the ability to log into these superhubs remotely and many of my fellow 'helpdesk monkey's' do so, so once again, you lack of product knowledge is FUCKING SHOCKING to lecture me. However I'm not a limited idiot like you and them and I'm not afraid of handling people.

First off by doing that you are not teaching them anything, you can get a channel that works but then if someone else a neighbour gets a router the next day then they could be back to square one and have to call in, Give a man a fish....show them how to do it, talk them through it and what to do if the issue reoccurs so they can manage it themselves.

I don't know, maybe you think that we are keepers of some sacred knowledge that the public must be protected by and that is why you are such an arrogant twat?

Secondly, laughing at a customer's technical ability is again, extremely arrogant, maybe a boxer will laugh at the technique of your punches whilst pummeling your face in rather than teach you how to throw a punch but I find actually helping people is the remit of the use of that knowledge not building a book fort to defend against all comers is maybe something you will experience one day?

 

Keep flailing mate you have not landed a single blow apart from blowing your own here.

 

1. I may be a condescending idiot. Your just an idiot.

Your CCNA has expired, if you didn't re-sit the exam, so your qualified in exactly fuck all.

Not moved on. Moved up.

And I think my assumptions were correct. An unqualified helpdesk analyst/advisor or whatever the fuck they are calling themselves nowadays. I had a feeling of that from the outset, but I was more dignified by not mentioning it. You were the one who initially doubted my credentials. Yet your now taking umbrage and start calling me names? Fuck you.

 

Again, like I said earlier, I didn't advise him to do anything, I just pointed out in a polite way that you were wrong. And you don't like it, but the fact is you are, and you'll keep on being wrong.

 

And they'd hire qualified people to work on a helpdesk if they could do it cheaply enough, that's the only reason you (and thousands of others have that job). That's why, when you don't know how to sort a problem, you pass it to someone who does. Usually someone qualified in more than talking bullshit.

 

2. Waffling bullshit, I saw your original "diagnosis". You never mentioned any of that. He mentioned slow speeds, you went straight to wireless and stuck with it, even when he elaborated. Illustrating just exactly how much you don't fucking know.

 

3. More waffling bullshit. More qualified roles? I very much doubt it, not in networking son.

 

4. Illustrates just exactly how much you don't know again. You keep avoiding answering that because you must know how fucking wrong you are.

14 channels in the 2.4GHz band, why can't you just use them all then smart arse? You don't fucking know, and you'll never know, because learning shit out of books is ridiculous isn't it? Anyone can be a WLAN engineer.

 

5. You've already said you don't have the luxury of touching a router in your earlier post. Make your mind up.

 

And no, I don't have specific knowledge of Superhubs, but because of my vast knowledge of the 802.11 standard, I know how pretty much every wireless device on the planet goes about it's business. That's all I need to know.

 

Your everything that's wrong with helpdesks around the UK. You don't have any qualifications to offer "qualified advice" as you put it in your earlier post. You spend a few months on a helpdesk, backed up by some ill-advised forum posts from the internet, and some basic training from a manager/supervisor who knows even less than you do.

 

Honestly, I couldn't give a fuck how you go about your day to day routine. The fact is you came on here spouted bullshit at the lad, even claiming he was ignorant because he wouldn't listen to you (what was it about me being arrogant, and looking down on clients abilities?). Pot calling fucking kettle. Yet you didn't even bother to ask any rudimentary questions, i'd expect a tech-savvy child to ask. You just weighed in with your very limited knowledge.

 

You keep black box thinking, or whatever the fuck you call it, and keep on guessing till you come up trumps.

 

If your going to write another long winded reply, leave out the poor analogies, your first (the TV aerial one), although wrong, made me smile. Although in the way that parents must smile when their children write with those backwards letters.

 

Leave out the bullshit as well, I don't have to skim as much then.

[Duncan Clench]

Seriously... Have you tried switching it off and on again?

[RedinSweden]

Ace.

 

All this needs is for Uncle_Meat to wade in and explain that they are both wrong and the best signal can be gained by using a stripped down toaster running linux.

[RedKnight]

No raised voices in the TNF. This place is like a library not a pub.

[VladimirIlyich]

From my own point of view I wouldnt give a shite which wire crossed over which other and which piece of metal picked up the satellite signal from Uranus,I'd only be interested in whatever the fuck works!

 

For what its worth,Ive never got more than 2m,when i pay for up to 5m but it doesnt bother me too much as long as I can use the internet reasonably well.

[dennis tooth]

1. I may be a condescending idiot. Your just an idiot.

Your CCNA has expired, if you didn't re-sit the exam, so your qualified in exactly fuck all.

Not moved on. Moved up.

And I think my assumptions were correct. An unqualified helpdesk analyst/advisor or whatever the fuck they are calling themselves nowadays. I had a feeling of that from the outset, but I was more dignified by not mentioning it. You were the one who initially doubted my credentials. Yet your now taking umbrage and start calling me names? Fuck you.

 

Again, like I said earlier, I didn't advise him to do anything, I just pointed out in a polite way that you were wrong. And you don't like it, but the fact is you are, and you'll keep on being wrong.

 

And they'd hire qualified people to work on a helpdesk if they could do it cheaply enough, that's the only reason you (and thousands of others have that job). That's why, when you don't know how to sort a problem, you pass it to someone who does. Usually someone qualified in more than talking bullshit.

 

2. Waffling bullshit, I saw your original "diagnosis". You never mentioned any of that. He mentioned slow speeds, you went straight to wireless and stuck with it, even when he elaborated. Illustrating just exactly how much you don't fucking know.

 

3. More waffling bullshit. More qualified roles? I very much doubt it, not in networking son.

 

4. Illustrates just exactly how much you don't know again. You keep avoiding answering that because you must know how fucking wrong you are.

14 channels in the 2.4GHz band, why can't you just use them all then smart arse? You don't fucking know, and you'll never know, because learning shit out of books is ridiculous isn't it? Anyone can be a WLAN engineer.

 

5. You've already said you don't have the luxury of touching a router in your earlier post. Make your mind up.

 

And no, I don't have specific knowledge of Superhubs, but because of my vast knowledge of the 802.11 standard, I know how pretty much every wireless device on the planet goes about it's business. That's all I need to know.

 

Your everything that's wrong with helpdesks around the UK. You don't have any qualifications to offer "qualified advice" as you put it in your earlier post. You spend a few months on a helpdesk, backed up by some ill-advised forum posts from the internet, and some basic training from a manager/supervisor who knows even less than you do.

 

Honestly, I couldn't give a fuck how you go about your day to day routine. The fact is you came on here spouted bullshit at the lad, even claiming he was ignorant because he wouldn't listen to you (what was it about me being arrogant, and looking down on clients abilities?). Pot calling fucking kettle. Yet you didn't even bother to ask any rudimentary questions, i'd expect a tech-savvy child to ask. You just weighed in with your very limited knowledge.

 

You keep black box thinking, or whatever the fuck you call it, and keep on guessing till you come up trumps.

 

If your going to write another long winded reply, leave out the poor analogies, your first (the TV aerial one), although wrong, made me smile. Although in the way that parents must smile when their children write with those backwards letters.

 

Leave out the bullshit as well, I don't have to skim as much then.

 

Limited knowledge, I was doing your job when I was 19/20 and all the on site client bullshit that it entails, I don't have a need to justify it bet you feel real important though. You say I was wrong but you can't prove it cos he didn't try what I said or you own long-winded 'solution' so all your effort and high and mighty speeches amounts to nothing.

A few months on a helpdesk, I've done that for 3 years, as for networking, I worked for 3 years as a site technician for a specialist network intrusion detection and solution firm providing network security to airports, the police, premiership football teams, to multinational corporations, my boss was one of the heads of Cisco before he left to set up his own firm, we had teams of hackers, firewall experts, exchange and backup experts email/virus experts, all kinds of expertise, there is more I've forgotten in that role alone than you know. I still speak with the owner and he said if I ever want to go back it is open for me to do so but I have no desire to get back on that ladder and travel up and down the country to sites. I worked 2 years for a wireless specialist contracting for BT wireless, 3 years for a business IT solution firm after that. As I said, I'm involved in other things now and IT is simply a temporary diversion for me which is why my CCNA expired and I do a simple job on a helpdesk, turning into a cunt like yourself doesnt inspire me much. There is nothing you can teach me about networking. I don't need a bit of paper with certified on it to qualify what I know or make me feel important about myself either. I have no use of it in my job or in my future jobs as I don't plan to stay where I am longer than it takes to sue someone but carry on assuming I am sort some of johhny come lately with a few months on a helpdesk behind me if it makes you feel special.

I know how pretty much every wireless device on the planet goes about it's business.

 

No you don't, clearly as proven but your ignorant comments about the superhub, all your shite amounted to offering nothing at all, you say you corrected me but you didn't cos we don't know and shouldn't make assumptions without doing the test, you might think you know and I may think I know but science depends on experiments and tests not whats in your head. I also said the guy was ignorant to turn down my assistance, FOC unlike yours with something that would save him a lot of time messing about on channel 11 with some offshore indian who thinks they know as much as you do. He spurned it really, which is his choice but why then post on the forum about it? You then tried to wade in making all sorts of asshat assumptions and only complicating the issue but telling him to try all sorts of unneccessary solutions and then afterwards claimed it was cos I was wrong. It is I correcting you, I know the important stuff about all the products involved that you clearly know jack shit about from the many errors you made in your own assumptions despite what you claim you are. You say I should have asked this or that question (Without actually offering an example question I should have asked??) when I fix the same issue everyday, it is a known issue, if it walks like a duck and quacks like one and you deal with the exact same issue everyday it being a massive call driver then chances are the next time you encounter it you are likely to try the same solution without having to ask extra unnecesary questions about how shiny his floor is.

 

Ever heard the one about the guy who tried to suck his own dick but ended up with his foot in his mouth each time?

Edited April 14, 2011 by dennis tooth

[Guest Scaramanga]

Yaaawn.

 

This is boring. You're boring. I told you to keep it short.

 

Tell you what. You stay in your pretend world of make believe jobs, where qualifications, skills, and learning from books doesn't matter. And i'll stay in the real world where it does.

 

Your an un-qualified, no nothing bullshit merchant, and i'm tired of arguing with you.

[Uncle_Meat]

Wifi is not as magic as a lot of people make out, and some consideration needs to be employed in order to get the optimum experience out of it.

 

 

Sweeping with a spectrum analyzer is a good idea, or even a software based scanner such as netstumbler and so on. Find the bit of radio spectrum that is empty (or emptiest) and off you go will do for most, although that does not guarantee a perfect connection even at strong signal strengths.

 

You can have a good signal but a shit connection due to a poor SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio), caused by interference from other devices. A good example being my microwave in the kitchen, which tonks my lappy... Lots of other devices use the same spectrum as wifi nowadays, and not all of them may be as "clean" as you would like, and will contribute to a poor SNR and therefore throughput.

 

I'm not a fan of auto channel selection myself. Not that I have had any problems with it, just that I like to know where things are at myself.

 

 

I've not looked into it that closely, but I'm sure the wifi standard has some sort of protocols built in for multipath reception, where a signal will reflect from surfaces at different distances, causing the same signal to be received at slightly different times. The same thing that used to cause ghosting on the old analogue telly, or that weird phasey noise you get listening to long-distance MW transmissions.

 

Another thing to bear in mind, constructive/deconstructive interference of the radiated signal. Again, not sure what protocols wifi has to deal with such things, but I'm sure there is a shitload of error correction stuff built in to compensate. Not that this makes it OK in my eyes, a perfect radio installation should not need to be compensated for in a perfect world. Alas.... Anyway.

 

To top it all off, think about antenna placement. At those frequencies, even a small movement/placement of the respective antennae can have a noticable effect upon their performance with respect to each other. If you want to be really geeky, model your antenna with software such as EZNEC and calculate the near/far field radiation pattern and position each antenna accordingly.

 

 

Going back to the original problem. If your connection is just as shit via Ethernet as it is via Wifi, look elsewhere for now. I've never come across a Superhub, but anything that has to call itself "super" as part of the name usually makes me suspicious...

[dennis tooth]

Yaaawn.

 

This is boring. You're boring. I told you to keep it short.

 

Tell you what. You stay in your pretend world of make believe jobs, where qualifications, skills, and learning from books doesn't matter. And i'll stay in the real world where it does.

 

Your an un-qualified, no nothing bullshit merchant, and i'm tired of arguing with you.

 

Yes it was boring to hear a longer way to fix an issue than required with books that weren't required apart from the superhub manual which you really should order due to your lack of product knowledge it may help shorten your troubleshooting time whilst you are screaming hard that you can fix any wireless issue, anywhere in the world at any time, should it arise, then you can try to rubbish my credentials and qualifications to instruct on the matter but returned to have your assumptions dismantled on every single level whilst it's being demonstrated exactly why your unqualified advice was incorrect only for there to be more assumptions deviously made in a desperate attempt to make yourself relevant and somehow more qualified to take part in the original discussion of which you have made no relevant direct advice only contradictions of yourself before feigning tiredness from fighting yourself and trying to pretend my previous jobs were make believe after failing to get anywhere with the 'helpdesk monkey' jibe.

Heres to the next one where we can really get down with discussing the real world such as this forum where people ask for real advice and why your books are very little use to you when you haven't fixed 1% of the amount of these superhubs that I have fixed and delude yourself that your books which amount to some longwinded product-ignorant advice before you ride off on your high horse pretending I wish to make it as big as you think you have in the IT profession so I can pretend you are some sort of genius for taking longer than the average granny takes because you never heard of basic black box troubleshooting or that knowledge is there to make things simpler and riding off in the opposing direction. Hope we can do it again sometime.

[Guest TK-421]

Ace.

 

All this needs is for Uncle_Meat to wade in and explain that they are both wrong and the best signal can be gained by using a stripped down toaster running linux.

 

Oh do shut up. You don't know an overlapping channel from you CCNA.

[RedinSweden]

i have never seen people argue about wirless internet before. i feel honoured. i had never realised it was an issue that could provoke such strong feelings.

[Guest TK-421]

The first thing I would do is sweep up with a spectrum analyser.

[Guest Scaramanga]

Ok, i'll bite.

 

First off, your the man of contradictions. I never gave any advice, no matter how many times you try and say that I did. And I never said I could fix any wireless problem in the world (although i probably could), I said I know how every wireless device in the world operates. You see, they all operate to conform to a standard (although there are devices that are proprietary), something you'd know if you were actually something more than a self-taught shit merchant.

 

Secondly, I did rubbish your qualifications, because you don't have any. Only after you rubbished mine initially.

 

Thirdly, your advice, for all the good it done, he may as well have printed out and used it to wipe his arse on. Even him saying it wasn't a wireless issue you continued along the same path, and called him ignorant. You're the ignorant one.

 

Finally, i'm not feigning tiredness, i'm getting bored with you being evasive and talking absolute fucking shit. The basis of our initial argument, I actually asked you to explain yourself (a few replies back) about overlapping channels, and if it was of no consequence (as you put it), then why can't you just use them all. You've failed to answer that one time and time again. You just keep prattling on about how much you know superhubs and black box think/troubleshooting.

 

Don't bother answering by the way, your such a clever cunt, if you did know you would have answered already.

[dennis tooth]

Ok, i'll bite.

 

First off, your the man of contradictions. I never gave any advice, no matter how many times you try and say that I did. And I never said I could fix any wireless problem in the world (although i probably could), I said I know how every wireless device in the world operates. You see, they all operate to conform to a standard (although there are devices that are proprietary), something you'd know if you were actually something more than a self-taught shit merchant.

 

Secondly, I did rubbish your qualifications, because you don't have any. Only after you rubbished mine initially.

 

Thirdly, your advice, for all the good it done, he may as well have printed out and used it to wipe his arse on. Even him saying it wasn't a wireless issue you continued along the same path, and called him ignorant. You're the ignorant one.

 

Finally, i'm not feigning tiredness, i'm getting bored with you being evasive and talking absolute fucking shit. The basis of our initial argument, I actually asked you to explain yourself (a few replies back) about overlapping channels, and if it was of no consequence (as you put it), then why can't you just use them all. You've failed to answer that one time and time again. You just keep prattling on about how much you know superhubs and black box think/troubleshooting.

 

Don't bother answering by the way, your such a clever cunt, if you did know you would have answered already.

 

Yes I am aware of IEAA standards, why you constantly refer to it for a simple issue that a granny could fix is beyond me. I certainly don't. Wireless is very basic to troubleshoot in the end, stop pretending it's not. Thats due to those same standards making it simple, the reason it exists.

 

You don't have any idea what qualifications I have and I don't need qualifications to do what I do as a very basic and simple part of my job as driving to work and your qualifications mean jack shit in this case just as a NASA or physics engineer trying to fix a BMW car is not any more qualified than a BMW approved garage mechanic, they may offer a load of unrequired science on the subject but I think it would be a lot quicker to have it fixed by a BMW mechanic who knows all the ins and outs of an actual BMW car and all it's everyday faults versus someone who may know each and every associated science behind it but has never fixed a BMW car in his life and will take up half to time to learn such things before he can offer the simplest fix. Whether that mechanic understands physics is neither here nor there although this one does to complete the analogy.

 

He said it wasn't wireless whilst saying he couldn't pick up his wireless in the next room, we have two possible issues which clearly have to be addressed, I told him to call his ISP to have his speeds checked as it's a bit longwinded to do over a forum and pointless is he can't even be arsed to log into his router. He was ignorant for not trying not for anything else. Nothing tried, nothing learned.

 

As for your basis, you started trying to preach about overlapping channels and asked me why they can't all be selected at once which is the dumbest question I ever heard but worse is completely irrelavant to the solution to the issue and a vane attempt to prove you know something about something and complicate a very simple issue with a very simple solution (seems how people like yourself make a living.) to make yourself somehow of assistance to something that never required anyone to do anything but change the channel and test for the best one in his environment with trial and error.

 

As for telling me to not bother answering, I'll go on answering for as long as your little head keeps biting until you get it through to the softer part, this has no bearing on whether I'll give you the privilege of talking about overlaps with me for which you are free to start your own thread if you find it such a fascinating topic and how it has helped you feel important about yourself whilst never being of practical use to anyone because IEAA have already set a standard making such knowledge obsolete so long as manufacturers adher to that standard meaning people can just change the channel and try it by the time you've finished writing each and every sentence on this thread.

Edited April 15, 2011 by dennis tooth

[Guest Scaramanga]

No you didn't. You told him to make sure his router is three feet above the floor and to change channels. Shit advice.

 

I don't know why you continue to insist on writing long winded replies and adding really irrelevant analogies. I can only assume your a subscriber to the old adage of bullshit baffles brains, and that like 1 millions monkeys, and an infinite amount of time, sooner or later you'll write something that's correct. Because you haven't yet.

 

Your failure again to answer something that you said was irrelevant, again highlights your lack of understanding.

 

And 802.11 is a standard ratified by the IEEE, not IEAA. I must admit, i've never heard of the IEAA.

 

By the way, next time if you don't want to be called out, don't try and diagnose a fault without asking a SINGLE question, and then try to argue that you know everything and everyone who has a qualification is clueless (not you though, you don't need any) Because it makes you look like a cunt.

[DJLJ]

No you didn't. You told him to make sure his router is three feet above the floor and to change channels. Shit advice.

 

I don't know why you continue to insist on writing long winded replies and adding really irrelevant analogies. I can only assume your a subscriber to the old adage of bullshit baffles brains, and that like 1 millions monkeys, and an infinite amount of time, sooner or later you'll write something that's correct. Because you haven't yet.

 

Your failure again to answer something that you said was irrelevant, again highlights your lack of understanding.

 

And 802.11 is a standard ratified by the IEEE, not IEAA. I must admit, i've never heard of the IEAA.

 

By the way, next time if you don't want to be called out, don't try and diagnose a fault without asking a SINGLE question, and then try to argue that you know everything and everyone who has a qualification is clueless (not you though, you don't need any) Because it makes you look like a cunt.

 

I don't understand why you continue to bite. Dennis Tooth writes long posts with most of it being wrong, trying to bait people. Don't rise to it, he really isn't worth it mate.

[dennis tooth]

No you didn't. You told him to make sure his router is three feet above the floor and to change channels. Shit advice.

 

Nar it wasn't though, as this will fix 85% of such issues associated with wireless, I should know I fix these everyday unlike you who wouldn't know that as you don't fix these superhub issues everyday. I don't need a ask a single question because it's called a 'known issue' with the autochannel which was your main solution to the issue, unaware it was already set to auto by default.

Again it's called troubleshooting not diagnosing, he diagnosed that he couldn't pick up a signal nearby himself.

As for being pedantic about the correct name of the standards authority, well done on that, I'll organise a victory parade.

I didn't question "everything and everyone who has a qualification", merely your qualification in comparison to my own which is significantly unqualified to fix this issue in comparison to myself. Sadly all you knowledge gained working for mobile phone companies or doing your CCNA studies is not as directly relevant to the issue in this thread as my job where I fix this issue everyday, everyone from 7 year olds to old grannies and between us we fix it in half the time you would because you would have chosen 4 possible options I can shorten down to 2 likely options due to that knowledge and experience. No matter what you think or say you ultimately have produced nothing except the sound of slurping of your tongue on your own dick. All that hard work, reading books and sucking your own dick amounted to nothing of note in terms of advice or solutions, you haven't asked a single question but point out how I have not asked single question with a straight face.

 

So maybe as you can see, despite me typing a million words, really I am no clearer what you have therefore claimed as 'calling me out' upon the basis of so perhaps you can supply this missing revealing information you say 'pay me' for?

Edited April 15, 2011 by dennis tooth