Torres out for 6 weeks/Gerrard 2weeks

[Brownie]

Hmm,no I don't like it.

 

I understand concerns about his form and, to a point, his atttitude(although I would contend his fitness is the primary reason for this). No-one is going to claim he's been anywhere near as focused this season as he has been in previous ones nor are they going to claim his lethargic performances are acceptable from any player,least of all the captain of whom so much rests on.

 

That said, there is an astonishing cycle that is repeated every season, usually around January. A poor run of form sees people heavily criticise certain players and then the manager. From that form splinters groups, people who don't do either of the above yet criticise either our fans or influential players. I'm not posting this to be divisive or insulting but I'm sure if you look at the forum last year at this point, the same things were being said and the year before that.

 

Your points about Gerrard are,in my opinion, reactionary. Last year he had the season of his life. The year before that 21 goals and 23 assists. Two years before that 23 goals and he won us the cup. The year before that Istanbul. Obviously, I need to tell no red the importance of the man, he is a supreme player. A supreme player who is lacking in fitness. There was a particular paragraph I took issue with, as well, mate:

"I hope we can get him to accept he does not have to take everything on his own shoulders and that he can trust his team mates and allow them to play with less fear of upsetting him."

Let's not cloud the issue. Gerrard is miles above every player in our team, not named Torres, miles. If he doesn't take things on his shoulders, as we've seen with awful consequences this season, the team more or less collapses. It would be nice to say he can trust his team mates, but can he? Can he really trust Kuyt,Lucas,Babel/Riera the way he can Torres? The answer is no. I know it, you know it and he knows it. Also, mate, what kind of massive shithouse wouldn't play because their scared of getting shouted at? That is an indictment of that player and nothing else, in my opinion.

 

The Henry issue is another I disagree with. Firstly, Arsenal have a style of play that is implemented at the grassroots right up to the first XI. We do not. That means we can survive a couple of games without Gerrard but eventually that lack of organisation would tell, in my view. I also think it's important to note the level Wenger operates at in the transfer marker, it is unmatched, which means he can minimise the damage of losing a player of that ability.

 

There are problems at the club, but I really don't think Gerrard comes close to being one.

 

I agree with this. Unfortunately I think there are quite a few people who just don't really like Gerrard and when things don't go our way, they are quick to stick the boot in.

 

That's their prerogative and they're totally entitled their view, but I find it difficult to take them seriously if they genuinely believe that the team would be better off without him.

 

We'll see in the next few weeks how the team does without it's best players.

[zigackly]

Hmm,no I don't like it.

 

I understand concerns about his form and, to a point, his atttitude(although I would contend his fitness is the primary reason for this). No-one is going to claim he's been anywhere near as focused this season as he has been in previous ones nor are they going to claim his lethargic performances are acceptable from any player,least of all the captain of whom so much rests on.

 

That said, there is an astonishing cycle that is repeated every season, usually around January. A poor run of form sees people heavily criticise certain players and then the manager. From that form splinters groups, people who don't do either of the above yet criticise either our fans or influential players. I'm not posting this to be divisive or insulting but I'm sure if you look at the forum last year at this point, the same things were being said and the year before that.

 

Your points about Gerrard are,in my opinion, reactionary. Last year he had the season of his life. The year before that 21 goals and 23 assists. Two years before that 23 goals and he won us the cup. The year before that Istanbul. Obviously, I need to tell no red the importance of the man, he is a supreme player. A supreme player who is lacking in fitness. There was a particular paragraph I took issue with, as well, mate:

"I hope we can get him to accept he does not have to take everything on his own shoulders and that he can trust his team mates and allow them to play with less fear of upsetting him."

Let's not cloud the issue. Gerrard is miles above every player in our team, not named Torres, miles. If he doesn't take things on his shoulders, as we've seen with awful consequences this season, the team more or less collapses. It would be nice to say he can trust his team mates, but can he? Can he really trust Kuyt,Lucas,Babel/Riera the way he can Torres? The answer is no. I know it, you know it and he knows it. Also, mate, what kind of massive shithouse wouldn't play because their scared of getting shouted at? That is an indictment of that player and nothing else, in my opinion.

 

The Henry issue is another I disagree with. Firstly, Arsenal have a style of play that is implemented at the grassroots right up to the first XI. We do not. That means we can survive a couple of games without Gerrard but eventually that lack of organisation would tell, in my view. I also think it's important to note the level Wenger operates at in the transfer marker, it is unmatched, which means he can minimise the damage of losing a player of that ability.

 

There are problems at the club, but I really don't think Gerrard comes close to being one.

 

Great post, that.

[Red Phoenix]

Torres tears a cartilage the same day Maxi arrives, I just can't believe it. We're almost definitely fucked. Are we going to get a striker in? Or actually try fucking playing Pacheco? Probably not. This is unreal.

[Red Banjo]

being completely selfish as an England fan i want Gerrard 110% for the world cup

 

Ridiculous post.

 

As a liverpool fan - you should want Gerrard 110% fit for Liverpool.

 

IF he's 100% by the time the world cup is on, bonus for England. Nothing more.

 

Remember who puts food on his table

[dou9thekopite]

Oh wait.

 

We're a pretty shit team even *with* Gerrard and Torres.

 

Sorry.

 

yeah, ha ha coz there are hundreds of other shit teams in the top half of the premiership, the most competative league in the world.

 

i'm as gutted as any other red that what started as a season filled with bristling promise has turned into a shower of shite but for crying out loud have some people lost their minds. i'm assuming the quoted poster is actually not entirely serious, ha ha, but there are some pretty messed up opinions flying about all over at the moment

[RedKnight]

Torres tears a cartilage the same day Maxi arrives, I just can't believe it. We're almost definitely fucked. Are we going to get a striker in? Or actually try fucking playing Pacheco? Probably not. This is unreal.

 

Was that a question aimed at anyone or just a rhetorical one?

[RedKnight]

yeah, ha ha coz there are hundreds of other shit teams in the top half of the premiership, the most competative league in the world.

 

i'm as gutted as any other red that what started as a season filled with bristling promise has turned into a shower of shite but for crying out loud have some people lost their minds. i'm assuming the quoted poster is actually not entirely serious, ha ha, but there are some pretty messed up opinions flying about all over at the moment

 

The premier league is the most competative in the world? That's why the same four teams have finished in the top four spaces over the last five years.

[WaltonRed]

Anyone who thinks we'd be better off without Stevie is a deluded individual.

[dou9thekopite]

The premier league is the most competative in the world? That's why the same four teams have finished in the top four spaces over the last five years.

 

its because the gap between top and (almost) bottom is becoming shorter and shorter that this is shown actually.

 

this season is a very good example to be honest in case you have not been paying attention. or are you thinking the bottom half is no better than they were and the top half is just all worse than usual? maybe, maybe

[RedKnight]

its because the gap between top and (almost) bottom is becoming shorter and shorter that this is shown actually.

 

this season is a very good example to be honest in case you have not been paying attention. or are you thinking the bottom half is no better than they were and the top half is just all worse than usual? maybe, maybe

 

More money has flooded in, the gap will still be the same come the end, only one exception in all likelyhood; us.

[dou9thekopite]

More money has flooded in, the gap will still be the same come the end, only one exception in all likelyhood; us.

 

ok i have had enough negativity for one night... thats done me in. we always finish strong in a season so i think we should just concentrate on that and backing the team we have.

 

im a loyal red, always have been, always will be and i will never stop believing. things badly need fixed. some things are a huge deal and some a minor tweak here and there. i am waiting to turn the corner. YNWA

[Red Nick]

Anyone who thinks we'd be better off without Stevie is a deluded individual.

 

is the correct answer, 40m that we would get would buy Babel, Aquilani and Reira and i know which option I would prefer

[RedKnight]

ok i have had enough negativity for one night... thats done me in. we always finish strong in a season so i think we should just concentrate on that and backing the team we have.

 

im a loyal red, always have been, always will be and i will never stop believing. things badly need fixed. some things are a huge deal and some a minor tweak here and there. i am waiting to turn the corner. YNWA

 

Six months of poor form, it needs one hell of a comeback.

[kalasoma]

I almost cried last night on my way home from the game. What on earth is going on? I know we're only four months into the season, but I can't remember watching a more disenchanted, disorganised performance by a professional football club. It was eerily quiet. Am I missing something? Has everyone basically given up?

[Red Nick]

I take it you don't like them then.

 

If so which ones in particular? as it is a very interesting debate, and not a debate, if done properly, that will descend into slagging him off, as I don't personally want to go down that avenue.

 

I am at a crossroads about the relationship between Gerrard and Liverpool FC. I am starting to look at like I looked at my last relationship. I was with my ex for 7 years, we worked and we tried but ultimately we got to a point were we just realised we had to go our separate ways and go in different directions, we had outgrown each other.

 

Take that analogy and swap me and my ex with Liverpool FC and Steven Gerrard. Somewhere along the line I think Gerrard has started to outgrow the club, now this does not mean he wants to leave, or I want him to go, it could just mean that he is clinging on to something thinking he can make it happen here, when ultimately he may not be able to that.

 

I am not saying I am right and I have probably used a shit analogy, but there has been a strong hint that he is at the same place he was with Houllier as he is with Rafa now. Rumours of course but plausible. Maybe it is Gerrard that needs to leave Liverpool to play under less pressure, have the freedom to play without having to feel like he does everything himself.

 

I think the Henry comparison is a good one, as Henry loved Arsenal and wanted what was best, but he became a stifling influence, to the detriment of the development of the team. It is possible that the exact same could be happening with Gerrard.

 

Sometimes clubs and their big name players have to look at those possibilities for themselves and make sure they move forward in the best possible way. It goes for any player not Gerrard.

 

Just because this could be the case, does not mean me personally would look at his service with anything less than pride and gratitude. I have my reservations about him as captain and have doen since his appointment, but I will never question his commitment, passion and love for the club. It's just sometimes you have to follow your head instead of your heart.

 

As I said I hope we can get him to accept he does not have to take everything on his own shoulders and that he can trust his team mates and allow them to play with less fear of upsetting him.

 

It's a tough one to say the least.

 

It's a story of local boy does well and lives a dream that thousands in this City would give their right arm for, and it gives me a sense of pride to have witnessed Gerrard grow from a young lad I used to play footy with behind the shops on Croxteth Park Estate at weekends when I used to stay at my Dad's, to watch him play for the club I always wanted to play for, to captaining them to cup glory and to lift number 5. A true honour.

 

I also played against Jamie Carragher in 1st Year Seniors for my school, I played centre back, my first and last game at the heart of defence, marking Jamie Carragher, a mouthy little fucker who destroyed me and bagged a hat-trick while I kept on looking to see where he had gone whilst getting my arse handed to me on a plate. I wouldn't mind I was about 4 foot bigger than him as well.

 

Nothing wrong with Gerrard, Fuck Benitez off and you would see a new player and that probably goes for the rest of the team as well.

 

Your looking for problems that arent there. the real problem is we all have to face up to the real problem if Rafa was at Stevie's level right now the team would be performing a lot better Rafa's performance is far worse than Stevies

[suley]

the end is near....

[Red Nick]

BTW we were actually winning the game when Stevie was on the pitch

[kalasoma]

In the (paraphrased) words of Jr, this season can blow me.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

BTW we were actually winning the game when Stevie was on the pitch

 

For all of 1 minute and 15 seconds. Classic Red Nick.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Nothing wrong with Gerrard, Fuck Benitez off and you would see a new player and that probably goes for the rest of the team as well.

 

Am I the only person that's seen Gerrard improve dramatically under Rafa? He has said so himself.

 

Your looking for problems that arent there.

 

Coming from you, that's just hysterical.

[zico]

Oh fuck... This just gets worse... Our three best attacking threats out...

 

Unbelievable...

 

That statement is true, but to be honest neither of them have been anywhere near their form of last season....

 

Give Pacheco a chance, let's see what he can do....

 

Hopefully Rafa will not put out 11 players to defend ?

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Hmm,no I don't like it.

 

Ha ha, your repped for that mate, and appreciate the response

 

I understand concerns about his form and, to a point, his atttitude(although I would contend his fitness is the primary reason for this). No-one is going to claim he's been anywhere near as focused this season as he has been in previous ones nor are they going to claim his lethargic performances are acceptable from any player,least of all the captain of whom so much rests on.

 

It isn’t just about his form Kev, even though it is a major concern, and yes he has been injured and this should be even more of reason for him to take a step back and allow the others to take on some responsibility. A good captain can delegate and still ahev the same powerful effect. Fabregas is very good example of this.

 

That said, there is an astonishing cycle that is repeated every season, usually around January. A poor run of form sees people heavily criticise certain players and then the manager. From that form splinters groups, people who don't do either of the above yet criticise either our fans or influential players. I'm not posting this to be divisive or insulting but I'm sure if you look at the forum last year at this point, the same things were being said and the year before that.

 

Yeah totally agree on that, it does get like that, hence Dirk and Lucas and others getting the whole load of shite they had thrown at them when they were not performing in that time/now

 

Your points about Gerrard are,in my opinion, reactionary. Last year he had the season of his life. The year before that 21 goals and 23 assists. Two years before that 23 goals and he won us the cup. The year before that Istanbul. Obviously, I need to tell no red the importance of the man, he is a supreme player. A supreme player who is lacking in fitness.

 

I appreciate what you’re saying there, however you’re mistaken, and these are not reactionary comments. The same could be said about other players who get the stick. I agree what you say about Gerrard, and I have not said anything to say I disagree with this. However it is not about his form or fitness, it is about how far the relationship between club and player has come, that is why I used the Henry comparison.

 

There was a particular paragraph I took issue with, as well, mate:

"I hope we can get him to accept he does not have to take everything on his own shoulders and that he can trust his team mates and allow them to play with less fear of upsetting him."

Let's not cloud the issue. Gerrard is miles above every player in our team, not named Torres, miles. If he doesn't take things on his shoulders, as we've seen with awful consequences this season, the team more or less collapses. It would be nice to say he can trust his team mates, but can he? Can he really trust Kuyt,Lucas,Babel/Riera the way he can Torres? The answer is no. I know it, you know it and he knows it. Also, mate, what kind of massive shithouse wouldn't play because their scared of getting shouted at? That is an indictment of that player and nothing else, in my opinion.

 

Him taking everything on has a massive effect on the teams performance as it does not allow the others to do anything, the Beckham comparison made was spot on. If one player is running round doing everything the others are going to think “Why should I bother x player will sort it out” it takes away the team ethic, and that is where the reliance ont hat player comes in and festers.

 

Surely you have played in football teams there was always a player who try and take everything on his own and some players I played in those used to look at that player and begin to resent him for doing that, they did not resent the player as a person, but they did as a team player.

 

The Henry issue is another I disagree with. Firstly, Arsenal have a style of play that is implemented at the grassroots right up to the first XI. We do not. That means we can survive a couple of games without Gerrard but eventually that lack of organisation would tell, in my view. I also think it's important to note the level Wenger operates at in the transfer marker, it is unmatched, which means he can minimise the damage of losing a player of that ability.

 

The Henry comparison is spot on in my opinion. He was the star player of that team for quite a few and the relationship between player and and club had reached a point where a decision had to be made, Arsenals was to allow Henry to leave. Our style of play is different yes; however there are a lot of similarities in our current plight. Also about the grass roots comment, is that not what Rafa is trying to build by getting the control he got of The Academy? The development of The Academy is fundamental to our future success, and this is what brings it back to Henry comparison.

 

There are problems at the club, but I really don't think Gerrard comes close to being one.

 

Not once did I say Gerrard was a problem.

 

People seem to think I am saying he is a problem, but I am clearly not saying that at all. I am pointing out that there may be a point were even though Gerrard loves the club, and most of all wants us to win the league and be successful, however choices need to be made as to whether he actually believes we will do this while he is here. If he did decide it wouldn’t happen and he chose to leave with a heavy heart but used his head to make his decision, then I would not feel nothing but gratitude for what he has done for this club, which is a lot and he is and will rightly be lauded as a true Liverpool Legend and will go down in history as nothing less. All good things come to an end, sometimes it is at the end of a player’s career, sometimes it is before. All parties need to sit down at the end of the season and see where they stand.

 

A huge rebuilding exercise needs to happen this summer, and if Gerrard is part of that and re-assesses the amount he does on the pitch and just stuck to his game, then brilliant. If he and the decides that that leaving is the best option for the club going forward long term, which is what it is all about, is to cash in on him, then so be it. I am not saying this should happen; I am just looking at the bigger picture.

 

If people want to understand where I am coming from, they just need to take a step back and put their love for Gerrard to one side for a moment and look at in a logical way.

 

I don’t expect people to agree, but it is not hard to understand how I am looking at it if you take that step back.

[tenner]

With all the injuries it's a season to forget.

[ali]

Liverpool striker will be out for SIX WEEKS

Torres, successfully operated on his knee injury

 

The striker suffered a torn meniscus in his right knee.

 

16/01/10 - 14:27. Marca

 

Fernando Torres was successfully operated on his knee injury at a clinic in Barcelona and, as expected, will be removed from the pitch during the next six weeks. Dr. Cugat has rebuilt the meniscus.

 

The Liverpool striker was injured against Reading during the match of the FA Cup where his team was defeated and eliminated from the tournament. In it, Torres suffered a torn meniscus in his right knee.

[Monster Masch]

So which of these games are we likely to see Torres in?

 

Arsenal Away 10th feb

Unirea Home 18th feb

City Away 21st feb

Unirea Away 25th feb

Blackburn Home 28th feb