Rafa not happy....

[Paul]

Not sure why people are missing the 20 goals a season that probably come with Robbie Keane for £20m (not to mention pacem skill and intelligence). Goals always cost more, which is why comparing the prices of Keane and Barry is daft.

 

Moschops, I don't buy this link you're making between the growing scepticism about Rafa's ability to win the league and the perceived media manipulation of the owners. Rafa's league record after four years speaks for itself and that's why people are increasingly questioning him.

[knivesout]

Maybe he thinks he could've got a lot more out of Malouda than Chelsea have.

 

Ah, had we got Cherno Samba he would have lived up to my champ manager dreams. Damn you LFC!

[Brownie]

We did sell Sissoko though, and he has`nt really been replaced.

 

Another point is that im sure Rafa is reluctant to sell players before their replacements are in place. Cos dealing with Parry and G&H, you never know what will happen. A scenario where we sold Alonso and still was`nt able to buy Barry would not have surprised me the least.

 

Come of it Kurt, are you seriously suggesting that we need another central midfielder? Mascherano was the replacement for Sissoko in the grand scheme of things.

 

You're thinking too deeply about it - if there was a deal in place to sell Alonso then i'm sure that the Barry deal would be given the green light.

[Torvald Utne]

Come of it Kurt, are you seriously suggesting that we need another central midfielder? Mascherano was the replacement for Sissoko in the grand scheme of things.

 

You're thinking too deeply about it - if there was a deal in place to sell Alonso then i'm sure that the Barry deal would be given the green light.

 

it's a bit of a myth that we have shitloads of central midfielders, we have the same or less than everyone else.

[stringvest]

it's a bit of a myth that we have shitloads of central midfielders, we have the same or less than everyone else.

 

yeah, 18.

[Brownie]

it's a bit of a myth that we have shitloads of central midfielders, we have the same or less than everyone else.

 

It's not a myth at all. We have four and you don't need any more than that.

[SpeedyG]

Thats got to be blag.

 

I have a real email from Hicks and the headers on the one just posted are all wrong. It's fake.

[Torvald Utne]

It's not a myth at all. We have four and you don't need any more than that.

 

man u have 7

[Moschops II]

Not sure why people are missing the 20 goals a season that probably come with Robbie Keane for £20m (not to mention pacem skill and intelligence). Goals always cost more, which is why comparing the prices of Keane and Barry is daft.

 

Maybe we should come back to this when he's scored his 20 goals this season...

 

Moschops, I don't buy this link you're making between the growing scepticism about Rafa's ability to win the league and the perceived media manipulation of the owners. Rafa's league record after four years speaks for itself and that's why people are increasingly questioning him.

 

Like everything, it's a question of priorities. There's a clear pressure from certain parties in the club to a) deflect negative attention away from themselves and b) get the gangplank out for the manager.

 

Essentially, the way I see it is this: Are we a top four team on the pitch? Yes. Are we a top four club off it? Not in a million years.

 

So, given the adversarial nature of the internal politics at the club, which side of the divide should we as fans be erring towards? As stringvest says, nobody's perfect, the manager included - but let's face it, some are far, far less perfect than others.

[Brownie]

man u have 7

 

And what?

 

We can only go off what's relevant for us, and last season we didn't need more than four central midfielders so we don't need to buy another.

[Brownie]

Maybe we should come back to this when he's scored his 20 goals this season...

 

 

 

Like everything, it's a question of priorities. There's a clear pressure from certain parties in the club to a) deflect negative attention away from themselves and b) get the gangplank out for the manager.

 

Essentially, the way I see it is this: Are we a top four team on the pitch? Yes. Are we a top four club off it? Not in a million years.

 

So, given the adversarial nature of the internal politics at the club, which side of the divide should we as fans be erring towards? As stringvest says, nobody's perfect, the manager included - but let's face it, some are far, far less perfect than others.

 

What are you getting at there though? Are you saying that we should just agree with Rafa's choices because the owners and Parry are cunts? I don't understand what you're getting at.

 

You seem to be saying that as fans we should back Rafa with his decisions, even if we disagree with them.

[SpeedyG]

What are you getting at there though? Are you saying that we should just agree with Rafa's choices because the owners and Parry are cunts? I don't understand what you're getting at.

 

You seem to be saying that as fans we should back Rafa with his decisions, even if we disagree with them.

 

No I think he's saying sometimes its better to keep your mouth shut than to add fuel to the fire.

[hamstrung]

Well there's plenty of people saying that the Evans example with Sheringham is relevant.

 

I wouldn't be one of them, but its a completely different situation anyway.

 

With Malouda, Rafa's complaints revolve around the inefficiency with which Parry goes about his work. The fact its Malouda doesn't matter. It could just as easily have been Torres, Mascherano, Agger etc etc.

[Liam]

There has been no bigger fan of Rafa since he arrived and I fully appreciate what he wants to do and has so far done for our squad...

 

I am now sick of hearing him in the media, he reminds me of the miserable bitch I work with who always has a grumble. He either feels inferior to Parry and co. so cannot articulate himself in their company or he doesnt value his job as much as he says and is prepared to risk being sacked so he can get his pay off.

[Guest Lynchyred]

From BBC:

 

 

Benitez & Parry hold peace talks

 

Benitez (left) and Parry will work together to strengthen the squad

Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez and chief executive Rick Parry have held clear-the-air talks.

 

Last weekend Benitez revealed his frustration over his perceived lack of boardroom support in trying to sign Gareth Barry from Aston Villa.

 

"Talks have taken place. It was a positive discussion and we will now move forward together," said Benitez.

 

Parry told the club's website: "I can confirm we had a friendly and positive meeting and we're moving forward."

[knivesout]

With Malouda, Rafa's complaints revolve around the inefficiency with which Parry goes about his work. The fact its Malouda doesn't matter. It could just as easily have been Torres, Mascherano, Agger etc etc.

 

No, your anti-Parry agenda blinds you to any financial pragmatism. Malouda himself didn't seem overly fussed about coming to Anfield and appeared to fly a kite inviting other suitors. A subsequent bidding war with Chelsea would be sheer madness.

 

As others have said, I'm sure every manager could regale you with tales of the one that got away. Ask a bluenose...

[SpeedyG]

No, your anti-Parry agenda blinds you to any financial pragmatism. Malouda himself didn't seem overly fussed about coming to Anfield and appeared to fly a kite inviting other suitors. A subsequent bidding war with Chelsea would be sheer madness.

 

As others have said, I'm sure every manager could regale you with tales of the one that got away. Ask a bluenose...

 

Financials were a non-issue in the Malouda deal. Don't be committing the same sin you accuse others of.

 

I remember Malouda saying that he decided on Chelsea because even though Rafa clearly wanted him, it didn't seem like others at LFC did. The assumption is of course that, that was Parry.

[knivesout]

Financials were a non-issue in the Malouda deal. Don't be committing the same sin you accuse others of.

 

That makes Rafa a liar as he commented:

"He was one of our names. He decided to go there and he knows why." "Those players are not here but I'm really pleased with my squad," he said. "Every year we try to sign the players that we think are good enough for us. Also, now in modern football, players prefer more money and that's something you can't control. I think that you must pay the money that you can pay and only pay the right money for each player. We can compete if we want but we want to pay the right money for the right players."

 

That smacks of Malouda chasing the dosh to me.

[isr]

When Evans was manager we had a good young side and Evans thought signing Teddy Sheringham would be a good idea as well as going in for Desailly to give us some needed experience at the back and up front. The board wouldn't sanction those deals because they thought Sheringham was too old at the price and Desailly wages were too much so this isn't a new phenomemon. You didn't hear Evans crying like a spoilt kid because he didn't get his own way or even Houllier who I can't stand when he couldn't get the dough to sign Fowler back in 03-04. You just have to get on with it. I am betting EVERY SINGLE MANAGER in the history of the game has been denied by the board at some point in their pursuit of wanting to sign a player. I am getting a little sick and bored of Rafa throwing his toys out of the pram every time he doesn't get his own way manipulating the media for his own agenda and generally acting like a spolit kid.

 

You've hit the nail on the head, and the fact that you don't get it, and come to the opposite conclusion, is quite ironic.

 

Evans pinpointed 2 key signings which WOULD have brought trophies to Liverpool. That Spice Boys squad needed some hard-headedness in its spine. Desailly - a World Cup, European Cup and Serie A winner. And Sheringham, who went on to help ManUre win the treble. Fits the bill.

 

The board overruled the manager, and Evans didn't cause a fuss. Result?

 

We won fuck all for a decade

 

You're right. There is a big difference between Rafa and Evans. Evans was too fucking nice. And when he was put in his place by accountants, Evans did what he was told.

 

Rafa on the other hand is a football man. He knows how to WIN trophies. He was WON trophies with Liverpool (the kind of trophies that Evans could only dream of). If he digs his heels in on something, its because he feels its important.

 

There's a huge - unsaid - hypocrisy running behind some of the arguments on this thread. Namely, that Rafa should let his spending of his transfer budget, and how he builds his squad, be determined and vetoed by the board. Fine, yet those same posters will be calling for Rafa's dismissal, if his squad doesn't deliver.

 

If you want to hold the manager accountable for the results his squad delivers (as he SHOULD be), then let him build the squad he wants, within the budget he has ALREADY been given.

 

The board are accountable for the size of the transfer budget. The manager is accountable for the way he uses it. So, the manager doesn't set the budget, and the board doesn't decide how its spent. That's just ass-backwards.

 

And I'm going to repeat some stuff I've already said, to avoid being mischaracterised here.

 

1) I'm not talking about the size of the budget itself. Yes, its too low to compete with ManUre and Chelski, but thats not the issue here. A specific number must have been given to Rafa at the end of last season. That, plus any cash he raises through sales, is what he has to work with. I'm not arguing that he should now, at the end of the window, start complaining that his budget should be higher.

 

2) I'm not saying that EVERY target the manager wants, MUST be acquired. As I've said before, there are a myriad of genuine reasons why someone can't be bought. Amongst them is if the selling club are genuinely trying to stiff us. If we had put an upper ceiling on Barry's value (say 15m), and pulled the plug when Villa went above that price, I would have absolutely no problem with that. None.

 

3) We're not talking here about a lack of funds (we've been told publically that we have the funds, and Alonso's sale is not a prerequisite, money wise). We're not talking about Rafa overspending on his budget. We're not talking about buying a player whose selling price has exceeded our upper limit (we AGREED to pay 18m, rightly or wrongly).

 

We're talking about our board, making a footballing decision (we have too many CM's, we're not buying another one), and overruling the manager in the one area (FOOTBALL) where his judgement must be paramount.

 

That is the issue.

 

You tell me what Shanks or Fergie would do in a similar situation? Behave like Evans, or behave like Rafa?

 

Then tell me who's right!

[Kurt]

Come of it Kurt, are you seriously suggesting that we need another central midfielder? Mascherano was the replacement for Sissoko in the grand scheme of things.

 

You're thinking too deeply about it - if there was a deal in place to sell Alonso then i'm sure that the Barry deal would be given the green light.

 

I dont think we need more than 4CM ( Plessis and Spearing are more than enough of added cover) . I was just pointing out that compared to last season we are one CM down, so given the logic of Crouch out/Keane in you could easily say Sissoko out/Barry in. I was just beeing a pedantic twat ;)

 

 

Dont think im thinking too deeply about it. Let`s say we had sold Alonso for £15m. Would it have surprised you then if the Barry deal still broke down for one reason or another? It most certainly would`nt have surprised me.

[G Richards]

I think isr's latest post just about nails it for me. Well said.

[RedKnight]

I only read the bits in bold.

[SpeedyG]

That makes Rafa a liar as he commented:

"He was one of our names. He decided to go there and he knows why." "Those players are not here but I'm really pleased with my squad," he said. "Every year we try to sign the players that we think are good enough for us. Also, now in modern football, players prefer more money and that's something you can't control. I think that you must pay the money that you can pay and only pay the right money for each player. We can compete if we want but we want to pay the right money for the right players."

 

That smacks of Malouda chasing the dosh to me.

 

TBF Rafa doesn't say Malouda went for money, in fact he appeared to make a point of not saying it.

[Dicko]

isr great post.

[Juan Galonso]

You've hit the nail on the head, and the fact that you don't get it, and come to the opposite conclusion, is quite ironic.

 

Evans pinpointed 2 key signings which WOULD have brought trophies to Liverpool. That Spice Boys squad needed some hard-headedness in its spine. Desailly - a World Cup, European Cup and Serie A winner. And Sheringham, who went on to help ManUre win the treble. Fits the bill.

 

The board overruled the manager, and Evans didn't cause a fuss. Result?

 

We won fuck all for a decade

 

You're right. There is a big difference between Rafa and Evans. Evans was too fucking nice. And when he was put in his place by accountants, Evans did what he was told.

 

Rafa on the other hand is a football man. He knows how to WIN trophies. He was WON trophies with Liverpool (the kind of trophies that Evans could only dream of). If he digs his heels in on something, its because he feels its important.

 

There's a huge - unsaid - hypocrisy running behind some of the arguments on this thread. Namely, that Rafa should let his spending of his transfer budget, and how he builds his squad, be determined and vetoed by the board. Fine, yet those same posters will be calling for Rafa's dismissal, if his squad doesn't deliver.

 

If you want to hold the manager accountable for the results his squad delivers (as he SHOULD be), then let him build the squad he wants, within the budget he has ALREADY been given.

 

The board are accountable for the size of the transfer budget. The manager is accountable for the way he uses it. So, the manager doesn't set the budget, and the board doesn't decide how its spent. That's just ass-backwards.

 

And I'm going to repeat some stuff I've already said, to avoid being mischaracterised here.

 

1) I'm not talking about the size of the budget itself. Yes, its too low to compete with ManUre and Chelski, but thats not the issue here. A specific number must have been given to Rafa at the end of last season. That, plus any cash he raises through sales, is what he has to work with. I'm not arguing that he should now, at the end of the window, start complaining that his budget should be higher.

 

2) I'm not saying that EVERY target the manager wants, MUST be acquired. As I've said before, there are a myriad of genuine reasons why someone can't be bought. Amongst them is if the selling club are genuinely trying to stiff us. If we had put an upper ceiling on Barry's value (say 15m), and pulled the plug when Villa went above that price, I would have absolutely no problem with that. None.

 

3) We're not talking here about a lack of funds (we've been told publically that we have the funds, and Alonso's sale is not a prerequisite, money wise). We're not talking about Rafa overspending on his budget. We're not talking about buying a player whose selling price has exceeded our upper limit (we AGREED to pay 18m, rightly or wrongly).

 

We're talking about our board, making a footballing decision (we have too many CM's, we're not buying another one), and overruling the manager in the one area (FOOTBALL) where his judgement must be paramount.

 

That is the issue.

 

You tell me what Shanks or Fergie would do in a similar situation? Behave like Evans, or behave like Rafa?

 

Then tell me who's right!

 

When the manager loses sight of a players worth in his relentless pursuit of a player and is prepared to let one of our best players leave knowing that this player has a 20% sell on clause to Sociedad despite saying the figures for the two players would be the opposite way round at the end of the season to the owners ie Barry 12m Alonso 20m plus which means we would have broken even on that deal and made a few extra million from it. If that deal went ahead it would be FINANCIAL MADNESS. If we sell Alonso for say 12m and lose 20% of that deal and sign Barry for 18m who is a year or so older with only two years left on his current deal when we could have him for half that fee next summer and Xabi still has FOUR years left on his deal and is being sold for peanuts despite the manager saying 20m plus not three months ago. Aren't the owners withing their right to question that decision? Rafa needs to realise that he can't get his way all the time and stop crying it in. I bet even Shankly AND Ferguson have and were told on the odd occasion by the board that they couldn't have the funds for a particular player. You don't hear them whining about it all summer though. Get over it Rafa.