Benitiez Positive over four year progress

[Carra_is_legend]

Scholes has a good shout of staying in the team, the rest have been bit part players, the general point that that side has been completely rebuilt for roughly the same money stands. And I'm pretty sure Ronaldo didn't play in the 2003 title winning team.

 

The United first choice XI has 8 or 9 new players since then. So does ours. But i guess its easier looking for excuses to show how Rafa is infallible

 

Giggs, Ferdinand, Brown, Flether, and O'Shea have all played their part.

 

Utd have since bought Van Der Saar (2m), Hargreaves (16m), Rooney (27m), Park (4m), Nani (14m), Anderson (18m), Vidic (7m), Evra(5.5m), Saha(12.8m), Carrick(18.6m), Tevez(20m?), Kuszczak(4m).

 

Add that to the previous years' transfer dealings of Nistelrooy (19m), Veron(28m), Ferdinand (30m).

 

Fergie has successfully rebuilt his team but has had money to do it. He also went 2 years with a trophy. Time and money is the essence for success.

[RedinSweden]

Which is why I mentioned that we had the likes of Finnan Hyppia and Riise all putting in good shifts for us over those years too, even though nowadays they'd probably not get a game in the first choice XI if everyones fit.

 

I don't have the time right now, but they have probably brought in a lot less players than us in that time, its just that they've nearly all been hits to varrying degrees. We've had a heck of a lot of misses and probably brought in far more players. To use the tried and trusted examples, why buy lucas, yossi and IMO babel for 20 million, when Ribery moved the same summer for that price.

 

Alan Smith, Kleberson, Eric Djemba-Djemba, Tim Howard, David Bellion just from 2003 alone. 20 million quids worth of "talent"

[KevieG]

Giggs, Ferdinand, Brown, Flether, and O'Shea have all played their part.

 

Utd have since bought Van Der Saar (2m), Hargreaves (16m), Rooney (27m), Park (4m), Nani (14m), Anderson (18m), Vidic (7m), Evra(5.5m), Saha(12.8m), Carrick(18.6m), Tevez(20m?), Kuszczak(4m).

 

Add that to the previous years' transfer dealings of Nistelrooy (19m), Veron(28m), Ferdinand (30m).

 

Fergie has successfully rebuilt his team but has had money to do it. He also went 2 years with a trophy. Time and money is the essence for success.

 

round and round we go.

 

we've spent about the same as them no matter how many times people list out their signings

[KevieG]

Alan Smith, Kleberson, Eric Djemba-Djemba, Tim Howard, David Bellion just from 2003 alone. 20 million quids worth of "talent"

 

Do you want to make out a list of our duds in the last 5 years?

[aws]

round and round we go.

 

we've spent about the same as them no matter how many times people list out their signings

 

no we haven't

 

nowhere near

[Woo]

round and round we go.

 

we've spent about the same as them no matter how many times people list out their signings

 

But the difference being they have been able to spend 15m+ on an individual player, something up until last season rafa couldnt. In todays game, bar the odd bargain, genuine world class costs you big money, something mascherano and torres have proved. Unfortunately Man Utd have clocked onto this and done it for a decade, hence why so many of their signings have been so expensive, and mostly why most of their players are better than ours.

 

Oh and Im pretty sure their wage bill is at last an extra half bigger than ours. Man Utd have the financial structure and ability to do this thanks to a 76000 seater stadium, a great merchandising team and a big fanbase. we could potentially do the same in 5 years.

[Carra_is_legend]

round and round we go.

 

we've spent about the same as them no matter how many times people list out their signings

 

We haven't mate.

 

However, it was Rafa who decided to buy squad players rather than 1st teamers. For example, instead of buying both Benayoun and Lucas, we could have spent that £11m on a right winger who could have made a huge difference to the 1st team.

 

As you have said, it is just going round and round.

[hamstrung]

no we haven't

 

nowhere near

 

Its also ridiculously simple thinking that says "They spent £27M on Rooney. We should have not bought those 8 squad players, and we could have had him".

 

Completely ignoring the fact that its only last summer we've been able to spend anywhere near that sum on a single player.

 

£20M a season isn't enough to build a title winning side quickly.

[Red Nick]

But the difference being they have been able to spend 15m+ on an individual player, something up until last season rafa couldnt. .

 

or more to the point wouldnt

 

Kuyt & Pennant or Alves?

 

Benayoun & Babel or Quaresma/Mancini

[Best Believe It]

or more to the point wouldnt

 

Kuyt & Pennant or Alves?

 

Benayoun & Babel or Quaresma/Mancini

 

But there is nothing to say that it would have worked out better if he'd have made those choices instead of the ones he did make.

[aws]

or more to the point wouldnt

 

Kuyt & Pennant or Alves?

 

Benayoun & Babel or Quaresma/Mancini

 

If those were the choices then I think Rafa called it right.

[RedinSweden]

Do you want to make out a list of our duds in the last 5 years?

 

I haven't said we haven't bought any duds. But I am also not having you say "its just that they've nearly all been hits to varying degrees" unchallenged. These were in no stretch of the imagination hits, although they were an anagram of it.

[KevieG]

Right let this be the definitive TLW opus on this subject. I go into this completely open minded, if I've fucked up then we can change the figures. This is the transfer history since United won the title. We've already established that both squads have been completely overhauled and the first elevens for both are different bar 2 players.

 

Obviously GHs last season is included here, but lets not forget that we were also building on a team that won a champions league. Anyhow

Errors and ommissions excepted here is what I have

 

Season 03-04

 

UNITED:

Spent:

1/7/03 David Bellion 2,000

3/7/03 Eric Djemba-Djemba 3,500

15/7/03 Tim Howard 2,300

12/8/03 Kleberson 5,930

12/8/03 Cristiano Ronaldo 12,240

12/1/04 Dong Fangzhou 500

23/1/04 Louis Saha 12,820

Total spent: 39,290

Received:

2/7/03 David Beckham 25,000

6/8/03 Juan Veron 15,000

Total Received: 40,000

 

United net RECEIVED: +700

 

LIVERPOOL:

Spent:

1/7/03 Stephen Finnan 3,500

9/7/03 Harry Kewell 5,000

Total spent: 8,500

Received:

none

Total Received: 0

 

Liverpool net spent: -8,500

 

Season 04-05

 

UNITED:

Spent:

27/5/04 Alan Smith 7,000

11/6/04 Gabriel Heinze 6,900

31/8/04 Wayne Rooney 27,000

Total spent: 40,900

Received:

26/5/04 Danny Pugh 1,000

29/7/04 Nicky Butt 2,500

20/8/04 Diego Forlan 2,000

31/1/05 Eric Djemba-Djemba 1,350

Total Received: 6,850

 

United net spent: -34,050

 

 

LIVERPOOL:

Spent:

1/7/04 Djibril Cisse 14,000

27/7/04 Josemi 2,000

1/8/04 Javier Luis Garcia 6,000

1/8/04 Xabi Alonso 10,500

13/1/05 Fernando Morientes 6,300

21/1/05 Scott Carson 750

Total spent: -39,550

Received:

20/5/04 Emile Heskey 6,250

10/8/04 Danny Murphy 2,500

13/8/04 Michael Owen 8,000

Total Received: 16,750

 

Season 05-06

 

UNITED:

Spent:

1/6/05 Edwin van der Sar 2,000

5/7/05 Ji-Sung Park 4,000

19/7/05 Ben Foster 1,000

4/1/06 Nemanja Vidic 7,000

10/1/06 Patrice Evra 5,500

Total spent: 19,500

Received:

4/8/05 Philip Neville 3,500

8/8/05 Kleberson 2,500

Total Received: 6,000

 

United net spent: -13,500

 

 

LIVERPOOL:

Spent:

4/7/05 Jose Reina 6,000

4/7/05 Mark Gonzalez 4,500

13/7/05 Mohamed Sissoko 5,600

20/7/05 Peter Crouch 7,000

12/1/06 Daniel Agger 5,800

Total spent: -28,900

Received:

16/6/05 El-Hadji Diouf 4,000

23/8/05 Milan Baros 6,500

Total Received: 10,500

 

 

 

Liverpool net spent: -18400

 

Season 06-07

 

UNITED:

Spent:

31/7/06 Michael Carrick 18,600

Total spent: 18,600

Received:

3/6/06 Jon Obi Mikel 12,000

15/6/06 Jonathan Spector 500

14/7/06 Sylvain Ebanks-Blake 200

28/7/06 Ruud van Nistelrooy 10,300

4/1/07 David Jones 1,000

14/2/07 Tim Howard 3,000

Total Received:27,000

 

United net RECEIVED: +8,400

 

 

LIVERPOOL:

Spent:

22/6/06 Craig Bellamy 6,000

1/7/06 Gabriel Paletta 2,000

26/7/06 Jermaine Pennant 6,700

18/8/06 Dirk Kuyt 9,000

31/1/07 Alvaro Arbeloa 2,600

31/1/07 Javier Mascherano 150(loan)

Total spent: -26,450

Received:

25/5/06 Fernando Morientes 3,000

12/7/06 Dietmar Hamann 400

4/8/06 Antonio Barragan 680

8/8/06 Djimi Traore 2,000

30/8/06 Neil Mellor 500

18/1/07 Darren Potter 250

22/1/07 Stephen Warnock 1,500

? Chris Kirkland 3,000

Total Received: 11,330

 

Liverpool net spent: -15,8120

 

Season 07-08

 

UNITED:

Spent:

1/7/07 Owen Hargreaves 17,000

2/7/07 Anderson 17,000

2/7/07 Nani 14,000

4/8/07 Carlos Tevez 10,000(2 year loan)

Total spent: 68,000

Received:

16/7/07 Kieran Richardson 5,500

31/7/07 Giuseppe Rossi 6,700

3/8/07 Alan Smith 6,000

23/8/07 Gabriel Heinze 8,000

Total Received: 26,200

 

United net spent: -41,800

 

 

 

LIVERPOOL:

Spent:

4/7/07 Fernando Torres 20,200

7/7/07 Lucas 6,000

12/7/07 Yossi Benayoun 5,000

13/7/07 Ryan Babel 11,500

Total spent: -42,700

Received:

4/5/07 Florent Sinama-Pongolle 2,700

20/6/07 Danny O Donnell 100

3/7/07 Javier Luis Garcia 4,000

8/7/07 Djibril Cisse 6,000

10/7/07 Craig Bellamy 7,500

19/7/07 Mark Gonzalez 4,200

?? Paletta 1,200

Total Received: 25,700

 

Liverpool net spent: -17,000

 

 

 

January Transfer Window -

 

United

In

Couple of brazilian twins 5.3 million

 

Net spend 5.3

 

 

In

Skrtle - 6.5 million

Mascherano - 17 million

 

Out

Sissoko 8.2 million

Liverpool Net spend- -15.3

[dirty_sanchez]

Do you want to make out a list of our duds in the last 5 years?

 

Give us a list of the duds that we didn't make a profit on.

[sh#t waffle]

I cant believe people are being critical of a man who bought Torres, Babel et al for a total of minus forty two thousand quid last summer.

[Guest TK-421]

We could do with some more lists. What did Darren Potter cost 250 of? I'm well confused.

[Woo]

That their proves Man Uniteds ability to spend 10m+ on one player, even veron and ferdinand wernt on that list.

 

Im not saying that rafa has not wasted money, because he has at times. But mascherano and torres prove that more often than not, that money buys you class. And look at some of the players rafa had to ship out, and then replace on a low budget.

 

On that list alone I count 9 man utd players who cost 10m or more, not to mention rio and veron, which would make 11.

 

Cisse was not a Rafa signing but we can use him as part of the point if you want. Cisse, Alonso, Babel, Torres, Mascherano. Thats 5.

 

Now Chelsea will have more than man utd as they spend a hell of a lot. I reckon its between 10-15 players in their squad.

 

Now whos above who in the table. Not see a pattern?

[sh#t waffle]

That their proves Man Uniteds ability to spend 10m+ on one player, even veron and ferdinand wernt on that list. Im not saying that rafa has not wasted money, because he has at times. But mascherano and torres prove that more often than not, that money buys you class. And look at some of the players rafa had to ship out, and then replace on a low budget. On that list alone I count 9 man utd players who cost 10m or more, not to mention rio and veron, which would make 11. Cisse was not a Rafa signing but we can use him as part of the point if you want. Cisse, Alonso, Babel, Torres, Mascherano. Thats 5. Now Chelsea will have more than man utd as they spend a hell of a lot. I reckon its between 10-15 players in their squad. Now whos above who in the table. Not see a pattern?

Could you please sum up this, and the rest of the thread, in a definitive pie chart?

[RedinSweden]

I cant believe people are being critical of a man who bought Torres, Babel et al for a total of minus forty two thousand quid last summer.

 

He's a genius.

[Woo]

Could you please sum up this, and the rest of the thread, in a definitive pie chart?

 

This makes the rest of the thread irrelevant.

 

[John101]

Its funny that Obi Mikel actually appears to have cost them nothing but was still sold for 12 million.

 

So we spent roughly the same as them, from a strarting position of them as champions and us well off the pace, and some people are complaining because we are still behind?

 

These figures can prove anything? Is it fair academy products such as beckham are sold for huge amounts, thus improving their net spend against ours?

 

Should we divide total spend by total amount of players to see who has shopped in harrods and who in the netto?

[aws]

This makes the rest of the squad irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

Mmmmm.... Pie...

[aws]

Its funny that Obi Mikel actually appears to have cost them nothing but was still sold for 12 million.

 

So we spent roughly the same as them, from a strarting position of them as champions and us well off the pace, and some people are complaining because we are still behind?

 

These figures can prove anything? Is it fair academy products such as beckham are sold for huge amounts, thus improving their net spend against ours?

 

Should we divide total spend by total amount of players to see who has shopped in harrods and who in the netto?

 

And while we're at it let's include the season before Rafa actually came here.

[KevieG]

Anyone want to move the goalposts now that its been shown that we spent about the same, probably a bit more, but just bought reams of squad filler crap.

[Cardie]

No goalposts to be moved you refuse to accept the differing starting positions of both teams which makes the discusson redundant.