Keir Starmer

[AngryOfTuebrook]

He is so shit at politics.  Imagine putting a three-line whip against an issue that even the likes of Jess Phillips and Stella Creasy vote for.

 

Starmer's Labour are the Everton of politics: if they avoid defeat, it's only because the other lot are so unspeakably shit.

 

[Gnasher]

6 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

He is so shit at politics.  Imagine putting a three-line whip against an issue that even the likes of Jess Phillips and Stella Creasy vote for.

 

Starmer's Labour are the Everton of politics: if they avoid defeat, it's only because the other lot are so unspeakably shit.

 

 

I'm no fan of Starmer but I wouldn't class that as 'bad politics' in an emotive subject he seems to have come out of that quite well. 

 

Doesn't seem to bad for him that. Of course im not into the nitty gritty of politics so I might be wrong. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

4 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Jess Phillips is a cunt. 

She is. But a bit less of a cunt tonight. 

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, Nelly-Szoboszlai said:

She is. But a bit less of a cunt tonight. 

 

Yeah. True.

[Jairzinho]

Pretty impressive to come out of the situation looking like more of a cunt than Jess Phillips. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

40 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

I'm no fan of Starmer but I wouldn't class that as 'bad politics' in an emotive subject he seems to have come out of that quite well. 

 

Doesn't seem to bad for him that. Of course im not into the nitty gritty of politics so I might be wrong. 

He could have allowed a free vote and then, as an intra-party issue, this goes away.  Either he knew how many people would go against the whip or he didn't: either way is piss-poor leadership.  He's come out of it with some of his loyalists having to vote against him and the Tories laughing at the weakness of his leadership.  

[Section_31]

Jess Philips doesn't have an election to win. 

 

It's bonkers some of this stuff. It's like when people used to go on about Marcus Rashford doing more to end kids' hunger than the Labour Party.

 

Surely people can genuinely understand a leader has broader strategic concerns than simply making empty gestures (a la Philips) which will have virtually no impact and no personal repercussions?

[Gnasher]

These people are more concerned about Israel than Britain. It seems their only concern.

 

[Section_31]

The vote was an SNP bear trap. 

 

If labour had voted for it, nothing would have happened. Nothing. Zero.

[Jairzinho]

58 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Jess Philips doesn't have an election to win. 

 

It's bonkers some of this stuff. It's like when people used to go on about Marcus Rashford doing more to end kids' hunger than the Labour Party.

 

Surely people can genuinely understand a leader has broader strategic concerns than simply making empty gestures (a la Philips) which will have virtually no impact and no personal repercussions?

 

Even if you ignore the turning a blind eye to genocide thing, which I think probably qualifies as a line in the sand for some people, how would you say his stance is going for him politically? Is his position actually what Mondeo nonce is crying out for? 

 

Is having half the front bench resign, dozens of his own councillors essentially calling him a cunt, and the media now dominated by the fallout out of what began by him stumbling through that LBC interview where he had to row back on seemingly backing starving people to death really all good for the next election? 

 

It doesn't feel like he's striking a particularly good position politically or morally. And occasionally they are allowed to overlap. 

 

The Tories are eating each other alive and he's created, through his own mismanagement, a spotlight taking internal party battle of his own. 

[Section_31]

5 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Even if you ignore the turning a blind eye to genocide thing, which I think probably qualifies as a line in the sand for some people, how would you say his stance is going for him politically? Is his position actually what Mondeo nonce is crying out for? 

 

Is having half the front bench resign, dozens of his own councillors essentially calling him a cunt, and the media now dominated by the fallout out of what began by him stumbling through that LBC interview where he had to row back on seemingly backing starving people to death really all good for the next election? 

 

It doesn't feel like he's striking a particularly good position politically or morally. And occasionally they are allowed to overlap. 

 

The Tories are eating each other alive and he's created, through his own mismanagement, a spotlight taking internal party battle of his own. 

 

He's 20 points clear, I think that's probably all he's arsed about. He's an inverted version of Corbyn's labour which was calling for stuff left right and centre, but was never going to be in a position to do anything about it.

 

It's not like it's open civil war either is it? Most of the people who've resigned are in heavily Muslim constituencies where they face losing their jobs. (Not that I'm suggesting that's the main reason they did it.)

 

 But it's purely an empty gesture. It's like me saying in the work canteen that if I was MD I'd give everyone Fridays off and everyone giving me a round of applause and saying I'm great and the current MD is a cunt.

[Jairzinho]

Just now, Section_31 said:

 

He's 20 points clear, I think that's probably all he's arsed about. He's an inverted version of Corbyn's labour which was calling for stuff left right and centre, but was never going to be in a position to do anything about it.

 

It's not like it's open civil war either is it? Most of the people who've resigned are in heavily Muslim constituents where their choice is basically between keeping a shadow ministerial job and keeping their job as MP. (Not that I'm suggesting that's the main reason they did it.)

 

But it's purely an empty gesture. It's like me saying in the work canteen that if I was MD I'd give everyone Fridays off and everyone giving me a round of applause and saying I'm great and the current MD is a cunt.

 

I mean, some of them morally won't actually be able to stand for this. Many it'll be a gesture, but many also just probably feel ethnic cleansing is something the Labour Party should probably be against. As I said before, everyone has their line in the sand. Regardless of whether their position on it will make a tangible difference or not. 

 

However, it's politically I'm interested in. I don't have any expectations of Starmer morally or ideologically. He's an empty suit in that regard. I simply think he's just fucked this up a bit. Taking a less cunty stance while parroting the same "Israel defending itself" bullshit could have avoided this. 

[an tha]

He is in a tricky spot...call for a casefire and he gets branded a terrorist sympathiser ala way Corbyn was by the tories and their media and that then sticks with the voters he needs to win over from shitholes like Stoke, Wolverhampton, Leigh, Workington et al.....

 

He's trying on this issue to please all - like he is on a lot of issues and it creates problems....problem is the game is a rigged one, if he comes out as i suspect he would really want to he gets fucked over way Corbyn was by all the cunts in the government, the media and the cunts who support them.

 

[sir roger]

At least he won't be in the spare room tonight.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

10 hours ago, Section_31 said:

Jess Philips doesn't have an election to win. 

 

It's bonkers some of this stuff. It's like when people used to go on about Marcus Rashford doing more to end kids' hunger than the Labour Party.

 

Surely people can genuinely understand a leader has broader strategic concerns than simply making empty gestures (a la Philips) which will have virtually no impact and no personal repercussions?

Jess Phillips literally does have an election to win: either she wins in Yardley, or she's unemployed.  The same applies to every MP who chose to align themselves with the 3/4 of the population who want a ceasefire.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-76-percent-britons-want-immediate-ceasefire

 

"We want our allies to keep killing babies" is really not an election-winning message. 

 

As for personal repercussions, 11 members of the Shadow Cabinet have given up their posts (which, I think, come with additional pay as well as career kudos) over this.

[razor]

It's a barometer of morality.  It may not have political clout, but it has moral currency.

 

I didn't think I could hate another Labour leader, and I've been absolutely sick of the Momentum activists spending more energy on undermining the leader of their party than the morally bankrupt Tory Party.

 

But I'm decided.  Right now, I hate Keir Starmer.

 

Like Blair (whose hand I shook at a Labour meeting back in 96, and whose cause I campaigned for), he's a compromised figurehead.

 

Coward.

[ZonkoVille77]

I wish Numero would come back onto the forum to stand up for his favourite Labour guy.

 

Thems were the fun days.

[Jack the Sipper]

58 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Jess Phillips literally does have an election to win: either she wins in Yardley, or she's unemployed.  The same applies to every MP who chose to align themselves with the 3/4 of the population who want a ceasefire.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-76-percent-britons-want-immediate-ceasefire

 

"We want our allies to keep killing babies" is really not an election-winning message. 

 

As for personal repercussions, 11 members of the Shadow Cabinet have given up their posts (which, I think, come with additional pay as well as career kudos) over this.

 

Right, but I'm not so sure that ethical concerns and 'doing the right thing' regardless were uppermost in all these MPs minds.

 

Also interesting to note that we're supposed to believe Jess Philip's (to take one example) view on a ceasefire is to the left of Bernie Sanders, or that she's more ethically sound on this issue.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

 

[sir roger]

30 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

Right, but I'm not so sure that ethical concerns and 'doing the right thing' regardless were uppermost in all these MPs minds.

 

Also interesting to note that we're supposed to believe Jess Philip's (to take one example) view on a ceasefire is to the left of Bernie Sanders, or that she's more ethically sound on this issue.

 

I wasn't aware that killing babies was a left / right issue.

[magicrat]

10 hours ago, Section_31 said:

 

He's 20 points clear, I think that's probably all he's arsed about. He's an inverted version of Corbyn's labour which was calling for stuff left right and centre, but was never going to be in a position to do anything about it.

 

It's not like it's open civil war either is it? Most of the people who've resigned are in heavily Muslim constituencies where they face losing their jobs. (Not that I'm suggesting that's the main reason they did it.)

 

 But it's purely an empty gesture. It's like me saying in the work canteen that if I was MD I'd give everyone Fridays off and everyone giving me a round of applause and saying I'm great and the current MD is a cunt.

Exactly. This will pass fairly swiftly and I wouldn’t mind betting the Americans will be pushing for a cease fire before too long . I’m also guessing Labour’s official stance will reflect that .

[Jack the Sipper]

56 minutes ago, sir roger said:

 

I wasn't aware that killing babies was a left / right issue.

 

So you haven't noticed any correlation between being on the left or right and stances on a ceasefire, at least in the west? Interesting that you also equate being against a ceasefire with being in favour killing babies. Incredibly crass and offensive view IMO. 

 

And was Jon Lansman a baby killing zionist when he was one of Corbyn's closest allies?

[an tha]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67438901

[Bjornebye]

1 hour ago, an tha said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67438901

 

Because he's a human being: 

 

 Ian Byrne voted in favour of the motion(Liverpool, West Derby, Labour)

[an tha]

53 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

 

Because he's a human being: 

 

 Ian Byrne voted in favour of the motion(Liverpool, West Derby, Labour)

West Derby - For

Walton - For

Riverside - Did not vote

Wavertree - For

Garston/Halewood - Did not vote

Knowsley - Did not vote

Sefton - Did not vote

Bootle - For

 

Think that is all the 'Liverpool' and closest ones covered without going across the water....