Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[VladimirIlyich]

7 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

Loads of people to be fair. Owen Jones, Stonewall, tons of prominent people and organisations say it’s as simple as you say you’re a woman then you are. Trans women are women and so on.

That’s still a pretty niche view thankfully but I’ve seen it espoused plenty of times on Twitter.

I wouldn't take Twitter as any kind of solid viewpoint on anything or social media in general. Why the fuck do regular news programmes keep fuckin referenfing those attention seeking twats.

[Sugar Ape]

1 minute ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I wouldn't take Twitter as any kind of solid viewpoint on anything or social media in general. Why the fuck do regular news programmes keep fuckin referenfing those attention seeking twats.

 

Like it or not Facebook and Twitter are massive influences on our society. You might not like that or agree with it but it doesn’t make it any less true. 

[moof]

2 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

It seems to have very little to do with the 0.1% of people. As moof rightly says, it's not like they're a powerful group. In fact, it's probably incredibly difficult for them to even live their everyday lives. Those aren't the ones that are really being fought against, rather a group of confused, vocal, aggressive types. There is some on the left - again, I've been a left-winger all my life - who see and treat this issue as if anybody with a countering opinion is a [insert bizarre SJW style insult here]. It's might be difficult for some to separate out criticism of those going through a transition and genuine concerns for the implications upon speech, women's rights and safety, etc. 

I think it’s quite funny that the ones most concerned about their free speech being curtailed are the ones who are platformed like there’s no tomorrow, and everybody suddenly becomes a feminist when it gives them the chance to dunk on an even more maligned group. Even enormous misogynistic right wing dinosaurs like Jordan “friend of wimmin” Peterson

[Babb'sBurstNad]

19 hours ago, Elite said:

So what's a trans fat?

 

 

That's when Marge is replaced by a knob of butter.

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I wouldn't take Twitter as any kind of solid viewpoint on anything or social media in general. Why the fuck do regular news programmes keep fuckin referenfing those attention seeking twats.

You say that but the TOR of Twitter have been changed this week and any deviation from ‘they are women’ can result in a permanent ban.  A couple of prominent feminists have already gone.  One tweeted ‘women are women’ and was banned. 

[moof]

1 minute ago, rico1304 said:

You say that but the TOR of Twitter have been changed this week and any deviation from ‘they are women’ can result in a permanent ban.  A couple of prominent feminists have already gone.  One tweeted ‘women are women’ and was banned. 

Has Linehan been banned yet? *crosses fingers*

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 minutes ago, moof said:

Fair enough. It’s clearly far more nuanced than that. Particularly the issues of participation in sports and the takeover of women only spaces being two major problems that need sorting. 

Yeah, there's definitely issues. There's the obvious issues surrounding those who are just guys being twats and 'calling themselves' something. That's a women's safety issue. Then there are transgender women, who almost nobody could tell were born men, and an issue with protecting them from having to go into men's changing rooms and stuff. That'd be equally a bad situation. I think the issue is with the point at which somebody is seen as a woman/man. It's clearly complex and nuanced, and the view that 'if you say you're a woman, you're a women' is very silly to me and is open to abuse. It should, in my opinion, be a scientific and medical decision. There are some transgender women who clearly fit into what it means to be a woman by most conventional standards, then there are some who are... not. One size doesn't seem to fit all.

 

Where I do agree with the likes of Peterson is that you shouldn't be forced to call people by their self-identified pronoun. Especially in the case where it's one of the strange, piss-taking, made up ones. That said, this is a different issue to the one of safety, fairness, medical, scientific, and moral arguments that are going on. We can't let any of that get in the way of making objective, sensible decisions that protect the rights of people, all people, on an equal footing. 

 

6 minutes ago, moof said:

I think it’s quite funny that the ones most concerned about their free speech being curtailed are the ones who are platformed like there’s no tomorrow, and everybody suddenly becomes a feminist when it gives them the chance to dunk on an even more maligned group. Even enormous misogynistic right wing dinosaurs like Jordan “friend of wimmin” Peterson

Although I probably wouldn't agree with the characterisation, I get your general point. That said, we shouldn't let that get in the way of actually protecting women. Just like we shouldn't let anything get in the way of protecting those transitioning.

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, Istvan Kosma said:

It is powerful or we wouldn't be discussing how as a society we are having trans people dictate and have changes made to how toilets are used!

You seem to be confusing the 0.1% with a vocal group on the left. They are absolutely not the same thing. The idea that trans people are powerful is... just wrong.

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, Istvan Kosma said:

 

A trans person wasn't allowed in a changing room, kicks off and suddenly is allowed in regardless of how others feel, that's pretty powerful.

 

It isn't. It's a description of a one-off event in one place at one time for one person. There needs to be guidance and legislation about this type of thing, but it doesn't mean that trans-people are powerful. They're existence is a particularly tough one. I mean, if they're so powerful, why not give it a go? 

[skend04]

Can't wait until the male Y chromosome disappears in 4 million years and we're all females. We can then get back to talking about stuff that matters. Like how shit our club captain is. (I'll take the neg willingly)

[TheHowieLama]

Seems like a very good example of the logarithmic power of Twitter there, and certainly an example of what will happen over and over, not a one off. It is not the .1 % or any vocal minority on the left a retailer is concerned with.

 

The power thing in this case (individual rights/public space usage) has very little to do with the .1% either -- everyone has a view on that.

[Aventus]

54 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

That's when Marge is replaced by a knob of butter.

The Simpsons has really gone to shit lately. 

[moof]

3 hours ago, Hades said:

The left needs to dissociate itsef from degenerates and perverts.

What the fuck does this even mean?

[moof]

2 hours ago, rico1304 said:

You say that but the TOR of Twitter have been changed this week and any deviation from ‘they are women’ can result in a permanent ban.  A couple of prominent feminists have already gone.  One tweeted ‘women are women’ and was banned. 

Hmm... you talking out of your arse again? Imagine that 

[Bjornebye]

[Red Shift]

16 hours ago, cloggypop said:

I reckon he's a blert sponsored by the Koch brothers. Each to their own though. 

Just who are the Koch Bros? Do they play for United or summut? They seem tainted.....

[Red Shift]

18 minutes ago, moof said:

What the fuck does this even mean?

I’ll have a stab at what Hades means.

 

we can be ‘progressive’ on some levels, but ‘conservative’ on others.

 

For instance, I tend toward very progressive economic ideas, like changing the mechanics of money and fractional reserve banking, but am conservative when it comes to social structure, because of my upbringing. Men are men and women are women - however, I wouldn’t ever agree to any form of legislation compelling the end of transgender free expression.

[Bjornebye]

23 minutes ago, Red Shift said:

I’ll have a stab at what Hades means.

 

we can be ‘progressive’ on some levels, but ‘conservative’ on others.

 

For instance, I tend toward very progressive economic ideas, like changing the mechanics of money and fractional reserve banking, but am conservative when it comes to social structure, because of my upbringing. Men are men and women are women - however, I wouldn’t ever agree to any form of legislation compelling the end of transgender free expression.

[Anubis]

Men (whether biological or after an op) use the mens’ toilet. Women (whether biological or after an op) use the womens’ toilet. Everybody else (if you want to identify as transgender, Mancunian, Cthuloid or wombat) use the disabled toilet.

 

And before you complain that you’re not disabled, neither am I but I use it as often as possible because it’s usually the cleanest and actually has toilet paper. And there’s space to stretch your legs.

 

There. Sorted. Jordan Peterson my arse.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Anubis said:

Men (whether natural or after an op) use the mens’ toilet. Women (whether natural or after an op) use the womens’ toilet. Everybody else (if you want to identify as transgender, Mancunian, Cthuloid or wombat) use the disabled toilet.

 

And before you complain that you’re not disabled, neither I but I use it as often as possible because it’s usually the cleanest and actually has toilet paper. And there’s space to stretch your legs.

 

There. Sorted. Jordan Peterson my arse.

I use the ladies. 

[Anubis]

Then you’ll be getting arrested. And not before time, I might add.

[Elite]

At male dominated events like Boxing, etc they make the Female bogs the men's bogs for the night and they get fucking destroyed. Say what you want about women, they don't piss in the sink and shit on the walls 

[Lee909]

11 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I use the ladies. 

Dressing up as the cleaner and peeping under the doors doesn't count. 

[Aventus]

13 minutes ago, Elite said:

At male dominated events like Boxing, etc they make the Female bogs the men's bogs for the night and they get fucking destroyed. Say what you want about women, they don't piss in the sink and shit on the walls 

I used the women's bogs in the krazy house once, and there was a shit in the sink. 

 

 

[Sugar Ape]

17 minutes ago, Anubis said:

Men (whether biological or after an op) use the mens’ toilet. Women (whether biological or after an op) use the womens’ toilet. Everybody else (if you want to identify as transgender, Mancunian, Cthuloid or wombat) use the disabled toilet.

 

And before you complain that you’re not disabled, neither am I but I use it as often as possible because it’s usually the cleanest and actually has toilet paper. And there’s space to stretch your legs.

 

There. Sorted. Jordan Peterson my arse.

 

In the Bier Kellar in town the toilets are up a flight of stairs but there is a disabled one downstairs. Was in there a few months ago with my mates and one of them said he couldn’t be arsed walking up the stairs so went the disabled one. 

 

I said to him joking that he might be blocking it for a genuine disabled person, and he replied “ when have you ever seen a disabled person using a toilet in the pub “ and off he went.

 

Literally as he locked the door a man in a wheelchair with no legs rolled over to the toilet and waited outside. My mates face when he came out and seen him was a delight.