The New Star Wars Films

[Jose Jones]

That actually reads like a Donald Trump interview. Snoke wasn't just some random villain, he was the architect of everything that happened in the intervening years, from the rise of the first order to the turning of Ren, to make out he just dispensed with him to accelerate a plot point is lazy and a bit shit.

 

Nowt wrong with what happened, but I suspect not explaining his back story - nor why Ren was so dissatisfied with the current arrangement beyond the couple of bollockings he'd received - strikes me more as that they couldn't be arsed thinking of anything.

 

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Surely that is the fault of TFA though? Basically it was the scrolling text at the start of the screen that told you 30 years had passed and about the First Order and the Resistance. Finn’s story could have shown more back story of how the new stormtroopers were created, adding a bit of heft to the new bad guys. Wouldn’t have needed too much.

[magicrat]

I'm no SW aficionado but got to see the latest film the other day when the kids dragged me along, As a piece of cinema I thought it was the weakest so far.  Rebels running from the New Order, getting discovered , scarpering again whilst in the background Luke spends most of the film dithering about getting involved. Too long , weak plot and just a series of things shooting at other things.  

[rubble-rouser]

Did you miss one of the major characters dying/sacrificing themselves at the end to advance the cause and respark the rebellion?

 

I thought that was pretty evident personally?

 

I'm not sure I'd classify it in that way. He'd just had enough - not exactly a sacrifice. 

[Juniper]

I'm not sure I'd classify it in that way. He'd just had enough - not exactly a sacrifice.

That’s exactly what he did so that they could get away?

 

Even Poe pointed that out in the film.

[rubble-rouser]

That’s exactly what he did so that they could get away?

 

Even Poe pointed that out in the film.

 

That ending was kind of triumphant rather than sad though, wasn't it? I don't think anyone comes away feeling devastated.

 

My point is that they pulled punches with Leia, Finn and Rose. The end was that character meeting his destiny.  Losing any of the others would have been a bigger blow. 

[Juniper]

That ending was kind of triumphant rather than sad though, wasn't it? I don't think anyone comes away feeling devastated.

 

My point is that they pulled punches with Leia, Finn and Rose. The end was that character meeting his destiny. Losing any of the others would have been a bigger blow.

With Leia, Luke came back to help her on a couple of occasions first waking her up from her coma and then coming to their need at the end. I guess that was a big part in Lukes story returning to the Force and redeeming himself by saving the others.

 

If she would have died earlier then that changes and his reason for getting involved again would have been diminished. I can see why she didn’t die with that in mind, despite Carrie Fisher dying and I guess they’ll be a time shift in the next one and she has already passed away and the resistance has grown in numbers again.

 

The Finn bit I was surprised by. Thought that maybe they should have gone through with that one though.

[G Richards]

Watched it with the family yesterday.

 

7/10 for me.

 

I like Star Wars, but this wasn’t one of the best ones. But it was OK. It’s all set up for more to come. $5Billion not spent for nothing, I suppose.

[skend04]

You have to be concerned about the 9th movie after TLJ. I'm just not sure how they can rescue this trilogy now. It's a broken, steaming mess with a final battle between Rey and Ren seemingly the only option left for a story. No need for a 150 minute film, make it 80 minutes and you'll have more than enough to close this chapter.

[Pureblood]

Come on, it'll be great.  Han's apparition will swoop down in the Falcon, just in time to distract Kylo's hot pursuit of Rey in the Death Trench.  

[Special K]

You have to be concerned about the 9th movie after TLJ. I'm just not sure how they can rescue this trilogy now. It's a broken, steaming mess with a final battle between Rey and Ren seemingly the only option left for a story. No need for a 150 minute film, make it 80 minutes and you'll have more than enough to close this chapter.

The problem is that Rey has already beaten him twice. The story has absolutely nowhere to go

[Funkasy]

7.6 imdb

[Numero Veinticinco]

7.6 imdb

Strangely twisted by thousands of 1/10 votes.

[Paul]

I went last night myself. The first third or so is poor. The acting feels really ham. Overall by the end I enjoyed it as an experience. It’s Star Wars at the end of the day and that’s what got it over the line for me enjoyment wise. I’d avoided everything so wasn’t aware of these laughable reviews of it being the best one ever etc. I really just don’t like the direction the story has gone in. They had so much good material, characters and ideas from the expanded universe and they’ve basically just ignored them. I was expecting them to retcon the expanded universe because it would have been ridiculous to try to fit around it. What they’ve done though is come up with a completely new storyline and characters which they give so little depth to and if you aren’t going to use the ready made ideas to base the films on then at least you should be coming up with something equally as interesting and they haven’t even come close.

 

The first film was clearly based on Harrison Ford saying I’ll do this film but only if you kill the character off so I never get asked a question about it ever again and oh, I’m refusing to work with Mark Hamill. This just feels like a bit of a hangover because they have no idea where they are going with the story.

Spot on.

[Paul]

They’ve made an absolute hash of the story which is my main problem with it.

 

The rebels/republic should be on the front foot. They’ve taken down the emperor and Vader yet you can now fit the size of the rebellion in the Falcon. It’s just makes the whole original trilogy pointless. They should have had various newly trained jedis some of who Luke was failing to control. The empire should be in pieces with various admirals running their own fleets trying to get its shit back together. Instead they’re just doing the same shit as before with another Emperor type figure who’s just filled the Emperors role with no storyline or intelligent back up into where the fuck he has come from. It feels like they’ve put some Zak Snyder style dickhead who hasn’t got a clue in charge of it.

 

I know they were probably hamstrung with demands from Ford about the first film but they could have done a lot better than they have. That’s not going into the various sub plot dead ends and nonsense they’ve added in the two films.

Yep. I think they fundamentally fucked up the plot. Where do they go now for the third film in this trilogy? Especially with Carrie Fisher no longer included.

 

The whole Skywalker saga is now over, but one film too soon. It’s set up well for opening the Star Wars universe up to new stories and characters, but there’s nothing left of the Anakin/Luke/Leia tale - unless there’s a ham-fisted twist and Rey really is Ben’s twin sister.

[Paul]

Just watched it in IMAX 3d. It's well shot. But...

Disney have made a fucking mess of the story and this has totally ruined it.

 

- still no idea who the fuck Snoke is/came from

- where's the Knights of Ren that were mentioned in TFA

- still no idea how Maz got Luke's lightsaber, and then it being so unimportant to Luke that Luke chucks it behind him.

- Phasma? What's the point?

- Del Toro character was shite. Actually the whole idea of leaving the scene of entrapment to go to some space Monte Carlo on the off chance they could get a hacker to help, who didn't in the end, was fucking nonsense.

- Yoda scene was cack. Basically still telling Luke off for looking to the future. But I thought Luke was now a Jedi Master? Clearly not judging by this scene.

 

Rey, Kylo and Poe are the films saving grace. Luke too except the Yoda scene.

 

Overall it's just bollocks. Better than TFA, but still bollocks.

Agreed.

[Paul]

Not since I realised there are far more important things to worry about and get pissed off over.

You’re so cool and chilled and mature about this stuff that you keep coming back to tell everyone their opinion is over the top. From what I can see, you’ve now posted your point (it’s kids stuff: calm down) about ten times. That’s not at all provocative when people clearly feel dramatically different about the whole thing to you, is it?

[Paul]

I fundamentally disagree with you that things have gotten better. Directors now substitute excessive camerawork for action and tension, plotlines move so fast that characters are paper thin cutouts, the humor is forced, rather than situational, the excessive use of CGI has ruined the feeling that you're watching something of human ingenuity, the music has gotten significantly worse. Everything feels artificial and nothing is patient enough to draw you in and tell a morality tale like the old films used to.

Completely agree. It’s a rare film that combines the old and the new brilliantly. That’s why I really love Winter Soldier. It gets narrative, characterisation, dialogue, mood and pacing absolutely spot on while simultaneously smashing it with its use of action and film-making techniques. Civil War is almost as good at those things too.

 

The rest of the Marvel movies range between OK and entertaining for me, but those two - and especially TWS - are cracking films.

[Paul]

TLJ was full of unique moments. It gets better on more views. Rian Johnson fills the movie with subtle bits you miss on the first viewing.

 

The look Hux gives Kylo after the line "I want every gun we have to fire on that man"

 

Luke not giving off any footprints when confronting Kylo, when Kylo has made lots/skidded red stuff all over the place before the big reveal

 

Luke and Yoda turning to watch the fire together in silence as the scene ends after Yoda's line "Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters"

 

For me, the film will grow to be considered a lot better when the next one comes out.

But you can only appreciate the icing on the cake if the cake itself is palatable.

[Paul]

That's my point though mate, even if it is a kids film (which I think is debatable) stories still have to make sense.

 

Chewbacca exists within the confines of an established world. If he got trapped and suddenly escaped by walking through the wall and Han said 'Oh yeah I forgot to say wookies can do that' people would rightly say that was shit.

 

 

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Debatable? I’d say there’s little debate. It’s not a kids’ film. That’s just a lazy categorisation of the entire SF genre. These films are designed to be universal, rather than for kids. No genuine kids’ film has Han kill Greedo in such a sly way. The fact that Lucas retrospectively tried to sanitise it says more about his colossal loss of judgement than the intended audience.

[Paul]

I'm not really bothered about all the criticism of it being a departure from what I expected or even the plot, I just thought it was a bad film in terms of the basics. Dialogue, 'humour', pointless scenes and characters.

 

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Same here.

[Red74]

Debatable? I’d say there’s little debate. It’s not a kids’ film. That’s just a lazy categorisation of the entire SF genre. These films are designed to be universal, rather than for kids. No genuine kids’ film has Ham kill Greedo in such a sly way. The fact that Lucas retrospectively tried to sanitise it says more about his colossal loss of judgement than the intended audience.

Yep, they only became kids only films when Lucas labelled them as such after he got slaughtered for The Phantom Menace mess and needed a cop out to divert the criticism.

[Paul]

Just thinking about Disney and what they have and haven’t learned from the MCU. Clearly they’re (understandably) focused on the money-making side of things with films that are connected and focused on a huge and loyal fan base. However, they appear to have lost sight of the need to make everything fit a unifying and credible vision.

 

I know they’re picking up someone else’s already flawed baton, but it seems to me that Kathleen Kennedy should have been far more hands on in ensuring consistency of narrative, characterisation and tone than she has been.

 

In short, the Star Wars Universe (is that a thing?) needs a Kevin Feige. Big time. Otherwise it’ll just slip from pillar to post under different directors as appears to be happening now.

[Mook]

I don't think there's any debate about them being kids films either, they are 100% kids films.

 

It's loads of people in space ships shooting lasers at each other, blowing up death stars & using an invisible power to move stuff about.

 

Were many 40 year old men getting upset about The Empire Strikes Back in 1980 or Return of the Jedi in 1983? I seriously doubt that they were, it was only when that generation who were kids in the late 70s & early 80s grew up that the shit hit the fan with the prequels. The truth is that the new films would never hold a candle to the old ones whatever they did with them because we're all older & have become established online film critics.

[Pureblood]

I don't think anyone gets to decide who the audience is.  I'm an adult (just) and I like Star Wars.

 

Am I allowed to enjoy Wall-E or is it under 8s only?

[Mook]

I don't think anyone is deciding who the audience is or who gets to watch the films, I went to see both recent Star Wars films & enjoyed them in places. I just think they're aimed at kids & am not going to get particularly upset about them or claim that they've 'ruined my childhood'.

 

You can enjoy whatever films you want.