Utd Backroom staff leave

[fowler9]

is the core of the side not already pretty old?

 

Ferdinand

Vidic

Evra

Carrick

Giggs

 

all wrong side of 30 with Van Persie not far off either, they can all still do a job for a couple of years (aside from Giggs, think people will realise how past it he is without Ferguson managing him very carefully) but you don't really want to be relying on them all

 

Cleverley

Welbeck

Anderson

Jones

Evans

 

all players that not very many managers would be able to use regularly in a title winning team, as much as a cunt Ferguson is getting the best out of players like this is something he does better than anyone

 

so leaving players at a good age for a long term future and good enough to play for a top team without excellent management getting more out of them than you can realistically expect is

 

De Gea

Hernandez

Rooney

Nani

Kagawa

Smalling

Rafael

Valencia

Buttner(not seen him that much to be too confident in this call but he seems good from what I've seen)

 

mind you I say this is the year Arsenal collapse every season so what do I know

[Flying Pig]

I can't wait to see how the 'Ferguson effect' of roaring into the 4th official's ear and barging into the ref's dressing room at half time will effect decisions on the pitch. As we all know they have used this weapon for years and now the old bastard is gone it'll be great to see them flounder.

[tomyam scouse]

I must admit, the Guardian's headline / sub-head foxed me for a bit:

 

"Phelan and Steele leave Man Utd

 

David Moyes made his mark by letting go assistant Mike Phelan and keeping coach Eric Steele"

[MajesticSuarez]

Moyes has made his already made his first mistake. I just hope he hasn't realised. Then again he's so predictable and stupid, it's likely he hasn't.

 

There is two rules and these are quite simple. In order to build an empire....you change everything. In order to sustain it, you change nothing. There is only one place Manchester United are going and that's....down. There is no need for us to knock them off their perch. David Moyes being such a clown will do it for us.

[Lucky Pierre]

Phelan has gone? Who's going to give the post match interviews?

[MajesticSuarez]

As much as we hate them, you can't deny that they are England's biggest and, in championship terms, most successful club. This is an attractive asset to have due to their global fan base. I'm certainly no expert on business and it probably shows in this post but it makes sense for the PL, Sky and to some degree the FA to have this juggernaut winning. Your Man City's and Chelsea's don't have that glamour and headline making appeal that United do. When United win the league or the European Cup, it's worldwide news because those in the media know anything to do with United will equal more revenue and the same goes for Sky and the PL as everybody wants to see the Champions or the European Champions.

 

 

 

I think United might've played this perfectly. There's no way Moyes will be going in there without some form of mentoring from Ferguson. He will be in the background somewhere passing on relevant advice and experience. The whole of English football apart from the United fans will be watching and waiting to see them fall apart and I reckon they'll carry on as they for a couple of years at least. Maybe when the core of the side starts to get old like we did in 90/91, is when we'll see some turbulence at United.

 

They're still a bunch of cunts...

 

It's not the '''Hodgson effect'' mate. It's called the ''Souness effect''. When you build an empire, you need to go in like a hurricane. When you are sustaining it, you need a soft breeze. It seems Moyes due to his cluelessness has got it backwards.

 

The good news for the rest of us is quite simple. With the exception of Manchester United, there is only one other club that is capable of building an empire...that's us.

 

Money clubs have some success, but it never lasts. Arsenal in their entire history have never sustained it, the same applies to Spurs. The last time Spurs won the league, Ray Wilkins had hair.

 

Therefore, what we need is for the owners to back Brendan and us fans to support him. Maybe just maybe, we've got another Bill Shankly in charge. I would love to think so.

[TalkSilly]

Surprised at this. I didn’t think Moyes would want to alter much, if anything, in his first season. You’d have thought having Phelan around for a while to show him the ropes at the club would have been a good idea. Ferguson liked to chop and change his back room staff around every few years but Phelan had been first team coach there since 2001, moving up to assistant manager in 2008. He was a permanent fixture.

 

I thought Moyes was going there to be Ferguson’s puppet, that looks less credible now.

[MajesticSuarez]

Surprised at this. I didn’t think Moyes would want to alter much, if anything, in his first season. You’d have thought having Phelan around for a while to show him the ropes at the club would have been a good idea. Ferguson liked to chop and change his back room staff around every few years but Phelan had been first team coach there since 2001, moving up to assistant manager in 2008. He was a permanent fixture.

 

I thought Moyes was going there to be Ferguson’s puppet, that looks less credible now.

 

Moyes is actually so predictable. I expected him to do just that. It's going to end in failure long before it's started. There is actually very low odds that come January 2014 with Manchester United lying in 14th, Moyes will be sacked. Their interim manager will be Alex Ferguson.

[MLB]

This is just him trying to make out that he's "his own man". Should turn out well.

[xerxes]

It is wholly understandable that Moyes wants a few men who he can trust with him. Phelan was Fergies enforcer, Moyes will want his own.

 

Goalkeeping coaches come and go, but Steele did a very good job with cresta cazeba.

Edited May 25, 2013 by xerxes

[G Richards]

It is common for a new leader to make a mark by bringing in his own people around him. As has already been pointed out, that Dutch fella seems to be the top coach there. Moyes will bring in his own no.2 and his own goalkeeping coach. I'm not sure any of this will make all that much difference.

 

The big difference is Ferguson to Moyes. I'm not a fan of the man, but Ferguson ruled that place and got every last ounce of effort out of his players. I don't think Moyes will do that.

 

The second big difference is that some of their key players are coming to the end of their careers. They will be a declining force. Will they be replaced well? Ferguson made mistakes in the transfer market, as all managers do, but he also built several title winning sides.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens, but I do foresee a decline in coming years for them. How far they fall remains to be seen, but it would be good if we can build something up and have a dynastic manager for years to come. I'd love it if over the next year or two we become a fixture in the champions league and scrapping it out for the title, while they become a team that occupies the sort of level we've been at for a few years. I'd like them to fall further, but with all their money I simply can't see that. But staying at the top will be hard for them.

 

Come on!

[DooooodekNo5]

It is common for a new leader to make a mark by bringing in his own people around him. As has already been pointed out, that Dutch fella seems to be the top coach there. Moyes will bring in his own no.2 and his own goalkeeping coach. I'm not sure any of this will make all that much difference.

 

The big difference is Ferguson to Moyes. I'm not a fan of the man, but Ferguson ruled that place and got every last ounce of effort out of his players. I don't think Moyes will do that.

 

The second big difference is that some of their key players are coming to the end of their careers. They will be a declining force. Will they be replaced well? Ferguson made mistakes in the transfer market, as all managers do, but he also built several title winning sides.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens, but I do foresee a decline in coming years for them. How far they fall remains to be seen, but it would be good if we can build something up and have a dynastic manager for years to come. I'd love it if over the next year or two we become a fixture in the champions league and scrapping it out for the title, while they become a team that occupies the sort of level we've been at for a few years. I'd like them to fall further, but with all their money I simply can't see that. But staying at the top will be hard for them.

 

Come on!

 

 

As long as they don't get Bale or Ronaldo, either one of those players can cover up a lot of Moyes and the teams deficiencies by winning matches on their own out of nothing.

[MajesticSuarez]

I made this point on another thread and it's something that people fail to grasp. We you're building an empire, the job is to change everything. It's out with the old...in with the new.

 

However if you want to sustain it..you change nothing. How many members of the coaching staff did Bob Paisley change when he became boss? He changed nothing. He's the only manager ever to sustain success after the empire builder retired.

 

That's how Bob Paisley made a very good team, an even better team. Someone once said Bob Paisley made bad players-good players, good players-great players, and great players..............Kenny Dalglish.

 

Back to Moyes. I just believe he's made his first mistake. Manchester United made the mistake of appointing him in the first place. Moyes is a loser with a capital L. Even rubbish like Steve Mclown, 'Arry Taxdodge and Mark Hughes have won more than him. 11 years ay Everton and 1 top 4 finish is all he's achieved. When he was Preston manager, he managed to finish 4th in a two horse race.

 

He also managed to get Everton in and out of Europe faster than a Ryanair flight. The fact of he matter is, United only appointed Moyes because they couldn't attract a good manager.

[xerxes]

However if you want to sustain it..you change nothing.

 

I think you are wrong.

 

Success, creating or sustaining, is about managing change. You either make it happen, let it happen , or wonder what has happened.

 

Now there will be occasions when modest change only is required. Changing the assistant manager and goalkeeping coach is hardly big stuff, Fergie did that quite regularly anyway.

 

I suspect that Moyes will do ok for the next couple of years, but as the pace of change outside his control accelerates, that is when we will see what he is made of.

 

City undr Pellegrini, maureen at Chelsea and an Arsenal who may actually have spent a few bob will all be reinvigorated challenges to Man u- whoever the manager at OT was.

[MajesticSuarez]

I think you are wrong.

 

Success, creating or sustaining, is about managing change. You either make it happen, let it happen , or wonder what has happened.

 

Now there will be occasions when modest change only is required. Changing the assistant manager and goalkeeping coach is hardly big stuff, Fergie did that quite regularly anyway.

 

I suspect that Moyes will do ok for the next couple of years, but as the pace of change outside his control accelerates, that is when we will see what he is made of.

 

City undr Pellegrini, maureen at Chelsea and an Arsenal who may actually have spent a few bob will all be reinvigorated challenges to Man u- whoever the manager at OT was.

 

You're forgetting something. If you keep the assistant, you're keep the ideals set in stone from the previous manager.

 

Who is there to prevent the obvious comment that is going to be made? The comment is ''This is not how Fergie did it''. This is demoralising for a new manager, when his players question is methods. All managers methods are different. But a lot of the ideals must be in place.

 

Bob Paisley may have changed a few players notably Phil Thompson for Larry Lloyd, Phil Neal for Chris Lawler and Joey Jones for Alec Lindsey. However he kept Shanks ideals in place. He kept the same staff, but just moved them around.

 

When Shanks left, Bob became boss, Joe Fagan was promoted to assistant manager, Ronnie Moran moved to first team coach, and Roy Evans who at 25 retired from playing became manager of the reserves.

 

That's why I feel Moyes has already made an enormous mistake.

[xerxes]

I think it is different, and more complicated than you suggest.Majestic Suarez

 

An assistant manager is an enforcer, as a new manager, you may reasonably want your own man. The man u ethos hardly hinges on Phelan/ Steele. It is more likely that it would be Phelan who said “that’s not the way Fergie used to do it” than the players, most of whom will do as they are told, so long as the team is winning. My own view is that you hugely overstate the significance of Phelan . The "enormous mistake" might have been to retain him.

 

For me the big challenges ahead are the ones that Fergie faced, replacing Gary Neville, Scholes, Giggs and Ferdinand, and getting the best out of Rooney, the assistant manager and goalkeeping coach appointments are small beer by comparison.

 

History shows us that great clubs era’s wax and wane, and man u are due a dip, it also shows that replacing iconic managers is fiendishly difficult. Irrespective of anyone’s views on Moyes personally, the record books show he has a job on his hands.

[magicrat]

I think it is different, and more complicated than you suggest.Majestic Suarez

 

An assistant manager is an enforcer, as a new manager, you may reasonably want your own man. The man u ethos hardly hinges on Phelan/ Steele. It is more likely that it would be Phelan who said “that’s not the way Fergie used to do it” than the players, most of whom will do as they are told, so long as the team is winning. My own view is that you hugely overstate the significance of Phelan . The "enormous mistake" might have been to retain him.

 

For me the big challenges ahead are the ones that Fergie faced, replacing Gary Neville, Scholes, Giggs and Ferdinand, and getting the best out of Rooney, the assistant manager and goalkeeping coach appointments are small beer by comparison.

 

History shows us that great clubs era’s wax and wane, and man u are due a dip, it also shows that replacing iconic managers is fiendishly difficult. Irrespective of anyone’s views on Moyes personally, the record books show he has a job on his hands.

 

I agree Phelan is probably of peripheral importance . Your other points are reasonable but if they sign Bale losing some of the old guard won't matter that much. As I said earlier its reasonable to hope they wont win the title but to expect them to crater is wishful thinking. Oh and by the way cut out the Fergie shit.

[MajesticSuarez]

I think it is different, and more complicated than you suggest.Majestic Suarez

 

An assistant manager is an enforcer, as a new manager, you may reasonably want your own man. The man u ethos hardly hinges on Phelan/ Steele. It is more likely that it would be Phelan who said “that’s not the way Fergie used to do it” than the players, most of whom will do as they are told, so long as the team is winning. My own view is that you hugely overstate the significance of Phelan . The "enormous mistake" might have been to retain him.

 

For me the big challenges ahead are the ones that Fergie faced, replacing Gary Neville, Scholes, Giggs and Ferdinand, and getting the best out of Rooney, the assistant manager and goalkeeping coach appointments are small beer by comparison.

 

History shows us that great clubs era’s wax and wane, and man u are due a dip, it also shows that replacing iconic managers is fiendishly difficult. Irrespective of anyone’s views on Moyes personally, the record books show he has a job on his hands.

 

 

I disagree.

 

If this were the case Bob Paisley would have dismissed Joe Fagan. Instead he promoted him. Bob dismissed nobody and made one addition from within. That was the recently retired 25 year old Roy Evans who on Shanks say so.

 

Roy Evans in 1974 was appointed manager of the reserves and they won 7 reserve titles in 9 seasons finishing second twice. This reserve side in the late 70s and early 80s contained two future Everton legends called Kevin Sheedy and Dave Watson.

 

At the same time, then West Brom manager Ron Atkinson offered West Brom midfielder Bryan Robson to Liverpool. Bob said no thanks, he said I've already got the best reserve team in England.

[Ranxerox]

not surprising really, I'm not expecting them to fall apart, but I do feel they've lost their ability to simply dominate. They'll have to work much harder now to stay where they are and mistakes will be much harder to overcome.

[Barzini]

It is wholly understandable that Moyes wants a few men who he can trust with him. Phelan was Fergies enforcer, Moyes will want his own.

 

Goalkeeping coaches come and go, but Steele did a very good job with cresta cazeba.

 

With what?

[Moorsey]

I'm not going to make any predictions about what will happen, but it will be very interesting to see if referees are as intimidated by the Ginger Skeletor screaming at them.

[MajesticSuarez]

I'm not going to make any predictions about what will happen, but it will be very interesting to see if referees are as intimidated by the Ginger Skeletor screaming at them.

 

The same applies to the players. I don't think Moyes has the same aura about him that Slur Drinkalot had. There is also Carpethead throwing his toys out of the cot.

 

It takes something small to create a good atmosphere, and something even smaller to wreck it. They could be in trouble if Carpethead upsets the applecart.

 

I'm going to finish with a joke.

Do you know the reason why Rooney called his son Clay? He originally wanted to call the child playdough but couldn't spell it.

[MLB]

Another thing to bear in mind is that Moyes won't have a coterie of lapdogs and bootlickers like Pulis at his beck and call the way Demento did. In fact, I doubt that any other managers will be intimidated by him or subservient to him.

[MajesticSuarez]

Another thing to bear in mind is that Moyes won't have a coterie of lapdogs and bootlickers like Pulis at his beck and call the way Demento did. In fact, I doubt that any other managers will be intimidated by him or subservient to him.

 

Well spotted.

 

Most managers take what Moyes says with a pinch of salt. They ignore him as much as they do Chris Hughton.

 

Dementos pet hippo Fat Sam will also have no-one to protect him. He and Demento was lovers for years, they had group sex involving Howard Webb.

[zigackly]

I'm not writing them off, but I think Moyes would be making a mistake to change too much at once. He does strike me as the kind of person to believe his own hype, so fingers crossed.