IF Kenny is binned

[s(k)aturation]

I want him to stay, and it is cos he's Kenny.

 

Agree.

 

And also agree with "that FrenchEyeGlass lad" and Mr T about excuses.

I'm not making excuses about how shit we have been at times this year etc.

 

I want to keep him cos he's Kenny and believe that he can turn things around.

 

I believe rather than know. I could be very wrong in that belief, but it's a belief nonetheless.

[Nathanzx]

to the lads saying give him another year, i say this:

 

That is a waste of a year and a stupid near-sighted apparoach. Why?

 

Say we finish 6th next year with 60 points but are still a fair bit off CL after spending another big chunk of cash...Kenny would be saying "we are improving bla bla bla" but we'd still be miles off where we want to be - would people get rid then? Because if you get rid when the guy improves you look foolish for not sacking him this season.

 

We need to start afresh, get a new young manager with radical new ideas, give him 5 years to completely turn things around and stick with him - Kenny is not that man, his moment has passed, accept that, giving him another year so we can fight for 6th and then sacking him is completely stupid but it's probably what will happen

[bastard oot]

to the lads saying give him another year, i say this:

 

That is a waste of a year and a stupid near-sighted apparoach. Why?

 

Say we finish 6th next year with 60 points but are still a fair bit off CL after spending another big chunk of cash...Kenny would be saying "we are improving bla bla bla" but we'd still be miles off where we want to be - would people get rid then? Because if you get rid when the guy improves you look foolish for not sacking him this season.

 

We need to start afresh, get a new young manager with radical new ideas, give him 5 years to completely turn things around and stick with him - Kenny is not that man, his moment has passed, accept that, giving him another year so we can fight for 6th and then sacking him is completely stupid but it's probably what will happen

so you can see a young manager being given 5 years by a club who would have sacked 2 of their legends in the last couple of years after one bad season each ?

[Moo]

to the lads saying give him another year, i say this:

 

That is a waste of a year and a stupid near-sighted apparoach. Why?

 

Say we finish 6th next year with 60 points but are still a fair bit off CL after spending another big chunk of cash...Kenny would be saying "we are improving bla bla bla" but we'd still be miles off where we want to be - would people get rid then? Because if you get rid when the guy improves you look foolish for not sacking him this season.

 

We need to start afresh, get a new young manager with radical new ideas, give him 5 years to completely turn things around and stick with him - Kenny is not that man, his moment has passed, accept that, giving him another year so we can fight for 6th and then sacking him is completely stupid but it's probably what will happen

 

You're frigging kidding yourself.

If we could sack our legendary manager after one full season in which we won a trophy then what the hell makes you think we'd give anyone else 5 years? Get real.

[s(k)aturation]

Say we finish 6th next year with 60 points but are still a fair bit off CL after spending another big chunk of cash...Kenny would be saying "we are improving bla bla bla" but we'd still be miles off where we want to be - would people get rid then?

 

I'm not sure.

Might it not depend on certain things you couldn't judge until then, or at least, closer to then?

 

And, if your "younger, radical" manager was given "5 years" to rebuild, then he would be moving in the right direction with 60 points and 6th place next year, wouldn't he?

[Red_Scorpio]

Three years after "bacon fucking face" took charge of the scum, they were still very much a mediocre team, with a 11th place finish in one of that 3 years. Just about everyone, ie, the media and fans, was calling for his head.

 

My point I'm making is that, it took him 6 years to win his first PL title, and as much as I hate to say it, he's done really fucking well over there at Old Toilet. " Can't wait for the fucker to be carried from the dug out" cause that's the only way he'd quit.

 

Any rate, I can't and refuse to wait soooo long for our next title, but FFS, do we really want Kenny to be sacked or moved upstairs after just his full season in charge.

 

I say No, I want him to be around for next season, taking this rebuilding project to the next level, that of course all depends on who'll be coming in this summer.

[Glen C]

I love kenny and grateful for what he has done. But i don't want him as manager anymore. Poor signings, finishing level points with fulham, and doesn't seem tactically great. Not very good at changing a game at all. I don't see what he has done to earn another year.

[Code]

Winning a trophy and reached another final.

 

Simple really.

 

Anyone who want a manager sacked after a season where thats the achievement are obviously not Liverpool supporters or at least they should not be.

[Redder Lurtz]

Three years after "bacon fucking face" took charge of the scum, they were still very much a mediocre team, with a 11th place finish in one of that 3 years. Just about everyone, ie, the media and fans, was calling for his head.

 

My point I'm making is that, it took him 6 years to win his first PL title, and as much as I hate to say it, he's done really fucking well over there at Old Toilet. " Can't wait for the fucker to be carried from the dug out" cause that's the only way he'd quit.

 

Any rate, I can't and refuse to wait soooo long for our next title, but FFS, do we really want Kenny to be sacked or moved upstairs after just his full season in charge.

 

I say No, I want him to be around for next season, taking this rebuilding project to the next level, that of course all depends on who'll be coming in this summer.

 

That was decades ago. Ferguson was a young, passionate, ambitious manager. Kenny blames our shortcomings on bad luck. If Kenny was in his 40's you might have a point but he doesn't have what it takes. Take your head out of the sand ffs.

[The Dude Abides]

I love kenny and grateful for what he has done. But i don't want him as manager anymore. Poor signings, finishing level points with fulham, and doesn't seem tactically great. Not very good at changing a game at all. I don't see what he has done to earn another year.

 

Blasphemer.

[Nathanzx]

Kenny says the lads deserve credit for the swansea performance, kenny says we've done well this season

 

this is what the facts say:

 

First ever wins for wigan in the PL and fulham at Anfield against liverpool

 

Lowest league points total (52) since 1953/54 season (37)

 

Lowest total league goals scored (47) since 1970/71 season (42)

 

Lowest number of league wins (14) since 1953/54 season (9)

 

Lowest number of league home wins (6) since 1948/49 season (5)

 

Lowest number of league home goals scored (24) in our entire history

 

Lowest number of league home points total (27) since 1948/49 season (25)

 

Lowest league goal difference (7) since 1993/94 (4)

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I have some sympathy for those who admit they want him to be the manager 'just because it's Kenny'. At least they admit it. They're putting the man above the club, in my opinion, but at least they're honest with themselves.

[Chippo]

Winning a trophy and reached another final.

 

Simple really.

 

Anyone who want a manager sacked after a season where thats the achievement are obviously not Liverpool supporters or at least they should not be.

 

What about breaking almost every negative league record?

[MLB]

The excuse making is getting to a proper cringey level - the level where you know the excuse maker doesn't even believe what he is saying.

 

Personally I think it's ok to say: 'I'm making a faith based judgement in Kenny because of what he did in the past'. That's cool and I understand it. What grates a little is the excuse making, trying to pretend we've been unlucky, we need a few tweaks etc. That is proper boring and embarrassing to read.

 

G Richards makes the best case for Kenny to stay - it's not been good enough but he has faith, back him next year. I respect that.

 

Just piss off with the luck stuff, citing shots on goal, we have the makings of a great team etc etc.

 

 

 

I believe the complete opposite of this. I think it is stupid to want to keep someone on sentiment alone, or because you have blind faith in him. I think the season has been poor but there have been signs that we have a good team and can progress next season. Sue me.

 

We create plenty of chances but don't convert them, so we have to decide what we do with the strikers. Do we persist with Suarez and Carroll and try to make them more prolific? Do we bring someone else in? We obviously need more goals from midfield now that Kuyt and Maxi are going, and that is likely why we are looking at Elm. Do we persist with Henderson? Can we find a right winger who can score and create?

 

We also have to consider what effect changing the manager would have in terms of starting from scratch and the funds that would be required. If a new manager comes in he will probably have to work with what he's got. Is there anyone out there who is going to do a better job than Kenny with these players? Maybe, but it would be difficult to attract someone of genuine pedigree without offering them money to rebuild.

 

So yeah, there is a rational basis to want Kenny to still be in charge next season. Why you would "respect" sentimentality rather than rationality I have no idea.

[cyador]

If we were playing shit football, week in and week out and not making the chances (that we do not take) and not showing signs of improvement overall. Then it would be pretty daft to want a manager to stay on a faith basis alone.

 

I know I am sentimental about Kenny but if we were really that bad I'd not be saying he should stay, I'd probably just avoid this thread.

 

But reading your post, well it makes no sense. I'd take real evidence over faith any day. I'd pity the fool that does that.

 

Signs of improvement? We've been getting worse and worse throughout the season.

[Randy Marsh]

There is one question and one question only that should define any managerial decision we may or may not make.

 

Is Kenny the best chance we have of success next season?

 

If he is, and they believe in him and can see a future in this team, then they have to trust and back him.

 

If they believe there is another man out there who is attainable and offers a better chance of success then they have to make the decision that no one wanted them to ever have to make and remove Kenny. Forget sentiment, it's as simple as that. This club exists to succeed, and we have to take whatever decisions necessary to ensure that happens.

 

My personal opinion though? I really don't know at the moment. I'm up and down, nights like Tuesday gives me hope again, but then today reminds me that for every Tuesday there are 2 or 3 Swanseas or West Broms.

 

No proper red takes any pleasure in having this conversation. It's horrible, a position no one ever wanted us to be in. But this is where we are and we have to face it head on and deal with the situation.

 

I really don't know what we should do now. I just want us to be boss again. 3 years ago that was us fighting out the Championship in the last week of the season. Today we are 8th. This cannot go on any longer.

[Moo]

 

So yeah, there is a rational basis to want Kenny to still be in charge next season. Why you would "respect" sentimentality rather than rationality I have no idea.

 

It's just some posters way of trying to make this point of view seem a bit mad, to belittle it in order to further their own argument.

[Tyler Durden]

Winning a trophy and reached another final.

 

Simple really.

 

Anyone who want a manager sacked after a season where thats the achievement are obviously not Liverpool supporters or at least they should not be.

 

I don't want him sacked but I want his fucking arse kicked over the complete collapse and shit league campaign he has overseen. He has wasted a fucking fortune and I want his next signings seriously scrutinised before we end up losing all our best players due to being nowhere near the Champions league.

[Mr T]

I believe the complete opposite of this. I think it is stupid to want to keep someone on sentiment alone, or because you have blind faith in him. I think the season has been poor but there have been signs that we have a good team and can progress next season. Sue me.

 

We create plenty of chances but don't convert them, so we have to decide what we do with the strikers. Do we persist with Suarez and Carroll and try to make them more prolific? Do we bring someone else in? We obviously need more goals from midfield now that Kuyt and Maxi are going, and that is likely why we are looking at Elm. Do we persist with Henderson? Can we find a right winger who can score and create?

 

We also have to consider what effect changing the manager would have in terms of starting from scratch and the funds that would be required. If a new manager comes in he will probably have to work with what he's got. Is there anyone out there who is going to do a better job than Kenny with these players? Maybe, but it would be difficult to attract someone of genuine pedigree without offering them money to rebuild.

 

So yeah, there is a rational basis to want Kenny to still be in charge next season. Why you would "respect" sentimentality rather than rationality I have no idea.

 

Why I respect people for having faith?

 

For great things to be achieved, faith is required. It's part of the human condition to have and hold faith, thank God.

 

If you are arguing from evidence and logic then your position is virtually untenable. There is no justification for it.

 

But under faith.. there is.

[Moo]

There is one question and one question only that should define any managerial decision we may or may not make.

 

Is Kenny the best chance we have of success next season?

 

If he is, and they believe in him and can see a future in this team, then they have to trust and back him.

 

If they believe there is another man out there who is attainable and offers a better chance of success then they have to make the decision that no one wanted them to ever have to make and remove Kenny. Forget sentiment, it's as simple as that. This club exists to succeed, and we have to take whatever decisions necessary to ensure that happens.

 

My personal opinion though? I really don't know at the moment. I'm up and down, nights like Tuesday gives me hope again, but then today reminds me that for every Tuesday there are 2 or 3 Swanseas or West Broms.

 

No proper red takes any pleasure in having this conversation. It's horrible, a position no one ever wanted us to be in. But this is where we are and we have to face it head on and deal with the situation.

 

I really don't know what we should do now. I just want us to be boss again. 3 years ago that was us fighting out the Championship in the last week of the season. Today we are 8th. This cannot go on any longer.

 

Sorry but I think you're asking the wrong question, seriously.

If we base our managerial decisions on your question then we run the risk of having to ask the same question every single year until someone comes along and gets it right in the first year.

 

The correct questions are, how long do we as a club give a manager time to get it right? And each year what constitutes progress?

[Code]

What about breaking almost every negative league record?

 

Everyone start on 0 points next season, what happened this season means fuck all, just ask Rafa.

 

58p ----> 82p

 

86p -----> 63p

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

How do you know this?

 

Question is are in a position to say no to a manager that has a Cl title and two La Ligas to his name with teams that were far from the richest or with the best players.

 

Very doubtful we could attract another at the same level, and to pick an up and coming manager is far harder.

 

Plus Rafa wouldn't have to suss the club out, he would know it from top to bottom.

 

He should know it from top to bottom as he tried to take over every aspect of the club.

 

The club also know him well and know what comes with him.

 

He is stubborn as fuck and holds grudges with players,once he falls out with you then its bye bye you.

 

His tendency to sulk when he dosent get what he wants or going through the papers.

 

His constant wanting money is another factor,and before people start saying it was because of the owners we had he was like that,then your wrong.

 

He done it at Valencia and also at Inter.

 

Remember also not one player came out and said anything in support of him when he was sacked.

 

The fact that theres a hell of a lot of fans who hated his negative football and his tendency to make everyone a defensive midfield player.

 

Also imo one of his strong points was his knowledge of the La Liga players.but apart from the original Spanish signings and Nando most of his other signings were debatable.

 

His strongest point was playing in Europe there is no doubting that.and to me theres the problem.

 

When he first came here he was already in Europe and had a team which would qualify fairly easily every season for it.

 

If he cameback now he wouldnt have that squad in the Champions league and in all honesty I dont think he would be able to get us to qualify for it either with his style of play.

 

Far to many draws and that would not get us fourth place now as it did when he was manager here.

 

The final point is it was Broughton who got rid of him if you remember or he had a say in it.

 

If he thought getting rid of Rafa was not in the clubs interest then he had the power to stop it.

[redfromtubebar]

I can't see how Kenny can stay after this season. The cup's are great but it's the league that is the barometer about where you are heading and 8th place (and relegation form since January) is way below the standard we should be expecting.

 

I love Kenny, adore the man, but it's Liverpool we support, not Kenny Dalglish, can he'd be the first to agree with that. We need what is best for the club, not one of our legends.

 

We need a manager who has a knowledge of the European leagues and can get us challenging again on a relatively shoestring budget.

 

Whether Rafa is that man, I don't know, but I know who the better manager is between Rafa and the 2012 Kenny Dalglish.

[Jairzinho]

You're not obsessed though, Code.

[Guest davelfc]

Signs of improvement? We've been getting worse and worse throughout the season.

 

I knew someone would pick me up on that even as I typed it. I mean since hodgson, I mean we can sometimes play brilliant football. It's our decision making in front of goal, a pass back rather than a pass forward, that's killing us. More clinical finishing and we would be flying.

 

Of course we've had some shit games too but I think there's enough there to justify Kenny staying.

 

But he really has to show that he has learned from his mistakes, we need to be more clinical and we need a good summer in the transfer window. The glimmer of hope and two cup finals has bought him the chance of another season, I have 'faith' he will deliver. But not blind faith.