Rafael Benitez: Football’s forgotten man

[Code]

Fixed that for you.

 

The only thing you can ever fix for me is if I ask you to make me a cup of tea.

[Hand Shandy]

 

There is a major difference though.

 

Let me guess...

 

You're right and everyone else is wrong.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

The only thing you can ever fix for me is if I ask you to make me a cup of tea.

 

Well, you sure told me...

[acks]

It's common sense that two of the most senior players at the club would at least be asked their opinion regardless of whether FSG took any notice of them.

 

No point in appointing a manager who is instantly going to upset two of the most influential players in the dressing room.

 

I find it interesting you said "two of the most influential players in the dressing room", and not the two most influential players on the pitch because as far as I'm concerned one is finished as a first teamer and the other has been below par for a while bar a few games here and there. I think as their abilities on the pitch start to wane so will their influence off it, well that is at least what I hope will happen.

 

All players in the squad should be treated equally and anything that can lead to cliques forming should be avoided as it could be bad for team morale.

[Jairzinho]

Let me guess...

 

You're mentally ill and everyone else isn't.

 

Agreed.

[Juan Galonso]

Or you could just ignore it and leave people to have their own opinions.

 

You know, like the opinions you have that no-one can ever sway you from...

 

What's that then mate? A non-constructive critic love-in? Seems to be.

[Hand Shandy]

 

What's that then mate? A non-constructive critic love-in? Seems to be.

 

Nope. It's a forlorn hope that if Code (and others) stop banging on about how shit Benitez was, then the people who didn't think he was shit will stop banging on about how great he was...

 

You as much as anyone should recognise that people's stances aren't going to change now, and to be honest we've been reading the same shite for the last three years.

 

It's beyond boring.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

Since Dalglish would have to be sacked first thus provoking a bitter backlash by many fans, why on earth would they replace him with another former club icon who divides the fans?

 

I have a better chance of managing LFC than Benitez.

 

I remember when everybody was saying Kenny would "unite the fanbase".

 

The only thing that will unite the fanbase is success, or at the least, progress.

 

I see your point and you may very well be right. Though, he must be one of the front runners if Kenny was ever replaced. He has past success at our club (and hence, PL experience) and speaks exactly the same game as FSG. That is, a long term plan recruiting undervalued and yet to mature players. He also has a highly statistical approach to his management.

 

In many ways him and FSG are a perfect team.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

I find it interesting you said "two of the most influential players in the dressing room", and not the two most influential players on the pitch because as far as I'm concerned one is finished as a first teamer and the other has been below par for a while bar a few games here and there. I think as their abilities on the pitch start to wane so will their influence off it, well that is at least what I hope will happen.

 

All players in the squad should be treated equally and anything that can lead to cliques forming should be avoided as it could be bad for team morale.

 

Very good post.

 

I can no longer rep, but im giving you a thumbs up right now.

[KopOut]

I would suggest that if Benitez had not left / been sacked, Torres would still be our number one striker, so Rafa could kiss goodbye to 50 mil right there. We'd probably still have Meireles as well, if Torres was still here. Damnit we'd be good.

[dirk grout]

There are things in life that are of no interest to me. It is for this reason that I do not enter into discussions about these things on the internet. Thanks.

[Juan Galonso]

Very good post.

 

I can no longer rep, but im giving you a thumbs up right now.

 

Buy a Season Tkt and join the MF then you'll be most welcome and you can rep then.

[coop]

I would suggest that if Benitez had not left / been sacked, Torres would still be our number one striker, so Rafa could kiss goodbye to 50 mil right there. We'd probably still have Meireles as well, if Torres was still here. Damnit we'd be good.

 

Hodgson signed Meireles.

[silverlining]

I would suggest that if Benitez had not left / been sacked, Torres would still be our number one striker, so Rafa could kiss goodbye to 50 mil right there. We'd probably still have Meireles as well, if Torres was still here. Damnit we'd be good.

 

Do you know anything?

[Lario]

Hodgson signed Meireles.

 

Do you really believe that?

 

Granted he signed while he was manager, but do you believe it was his signing?

 

Don't forget Hodgson continually played him out of position and was quoted as saying he didn't know where his best position was!

[Kennys_spell]

It's common sense that two of the most senior players at the club would at least be asked their opinion regardless of whether FSG took any notice of them.

 

No point in appointing a manager who is instantly going to upset two of the most influential players in the dressing room.

 

Couple of things there - it's not in the dressing room that we need them to show their influence, it's on the park.

 

Seniority doesn't infer knowledge or know how. How many senior players go into management only to fail badly?

[Gym Beglin]

There are two reasons that I hold a candle for Benitez, if you are interested.

 

1) He conducted himself very well while here. He 'got' the club very quickly, and he learnt to hate Ferguson very quickly.

 

2) There isn't exactly a dearth of managers out there who have proved they have the potential or credentials to mount a serious challenge for the league, or the Champions League.

 

I see some of the names mentioned in dispatches and I despair. Rafa is comfortably a better manager than almost all of them, if not all of them. Klopp is a keen fellow, and I like him, but what has he really done? Winning the title with Dortmund last season, yes, perhaps may even win it again this year, nice, but isnt that the minimum requirement for our calibre of manager anyway? They finished bottom of a weak CL group this season, and so it's no surprise to see them doing well in the Bundesliga, free from any European burden. Bayern are, however, only 3 points behind them and have remained in the CL.

 

Villas Boas, same story for me. Too little proven for him to climb aboard a big club. I think there is obviously a weakenss is his persona, he failed to rally a group of Chelsea players who are all too willing to rally behind Di Matteo. Yes, he was a club legend, but let's not kid ourselves, he wasn't Dennis Wise. The type of players and dynamics of a group that exist in that Chelsea team will exist in almost all the big teams in Europe, I'd be interested to see if he can ever repeat his success at Porto elsewhere.

 

Personally, I love Bielsa, he's a footballing god, he's a modern day Arrigo Sacchi. But I'd be shocked if Madrid didn't look to him to replace Mourinho, or even Barca.

 

I look at Rafa and I see pedigree. Big wins. Tactical acumen. Great signings. Media control. Ideas for youth set-ups.

It's a blessing that he's still available, but I'm not even sure HE'D take us on again. I think people presume he would, and I'm sure there are quotes which allude to it, but when it comes down to the crunch, I'm not sure he'd jump into it without a ton of proviso's to ensure he can run it like he wants.

 

I dont get people saying the 'control' aspect is a bad thing. I applaud a manager like Benitez who wants full control. There's too much blame avoidance in modern clubs these days, some managers are more than happy for someone else to carry the can for youth development, or transfers, or even coaching, or sorting out new contracts. That's bullshit, it's the American General Manager vs Coach model and it's bullshit.

It takes some balls to say you want full control, ergo, full culpability, for the whole playing staff set-up. That's the only way I'd take a job as well.

 

As the old saying goes, "a donkey is a horse designed by a committee".

 

For me, it's no argument that he was sacked once and should therefore never go back. Plenty of clubs re-hire old managers. In Italy they do it all the time even now, managers dont get severed they just go on gardening leave for the remainder of their contract, then reinstated when the next one fucks up.

Much different circumstances I know, but Dalglish himself is a manager coming back to an old club, people had no issue with that.

 

Any player who has a problem with Benitez managing them, has a problem with success and being part of a team. I cant be any blunter than that. Rafa isnt running for popularity awards, he has no political ambition, he curries no favour in the media, the only decisions he makes are 100% centred around winning games. Of course, he gets some shouts wrong, every manager does. For every Di Maria and Ozil Mourinho signing there is a Altintop and a Varane around the corner.

 

People criticise Benitez mainly on two main things.

 

1) His last season

2) The two or three home draws in the season previous

 

That's a pretty short list considering he was here for 6 years. Had we had the funds for another £20m striker as back-up for Torres, we'd have won at lest one title in my opinion.

[Razoray]

There are two reasons that I hold a candle for Benitez, if you are interested.

 

1) He conducted himself very well while here. He 'got' the club very quickly, and he learnt to hate Ferguson very quickly.

 

2) There isn't exactly a dearth of managers out there who have proved they have the potential or credentials to mount a serious challenge for the league, or the Champions League.

 

I see some of the names mentioned in dispatches and I despair. Rafa is comfortably a better manager than almost all of them, if not all of them. Klopp is a keen fellow, and I like him, but what has he really done? Winning the title with Dortmund last season, yes, perhaps may even win it again this year, nice, but isnt that the minimum requirement for our calibre of manager anyway? They finished bottom of a weak CL group this season, and so it's no surprise to see them doing well in the Bundesliga, free from any European burden. Bayern are, however, only 3 points behind them and have remained in the CL.

 

Villas Boas, same story for me. Too little proven for him to climb aboard a big club. I think there is obviously a weakenss is his persona, he failed to rally a group of Chelsea players who are all too willing to rally behind Di Matteo. Yes, he was a club legend, but let's not kid ourselves, he wasn't Dennis Wise. The type of players and dynamics of a group that exist in that Chelsea team will exist in almost all the big teams in Europe, I'd be interested to see if he can ever repeat his success at Porto elsewhere.

 

Personally, I love Bielsa, he's a footballing god, he's a modern day Arrigo Sacchi. But I'd be shocked if Madrid didn't look to him to replace Mourinho, or even Barca.

 

I look at Rafa and I see pedigree. Big wins. Tactical acumen. Great signings. Media control. Ideas for youth set-ups.

It's a blessing that he's still available, but I'm not even sure HE'D take us on again. I think people presume he would, and I'm sure there are quotes which allude to it, but when it comes down to the crunch, I'm not sure he'd jump into it without a ton of proviso's to ensure he can run it like he wants.

 

I dont get people saying the 'control' aspect is a bad thing. I applaud a manager like Benitez who wants full control. There's too much blame avoidance in modern clubs these days, some managers are more than happy for someone else to carry the can for youth development, or transfers, or even coaching, or sorting out new contracts. That's bullshit, it's the American General Manager vs Coach model and it's bullshit.

It takes some balls to say you want full control, ergo, full culpability, for the whole playing staff set-up. That's the only way I'd take a job as well.

 

As the old saying goes, "a donkey is a horse designed by a committee".

 

For me, it's no argument that he was sacked once and should therefore never go back. Plenty of clubs re-hire old managers. In Italy they do it all the time even now, managers dont get severed they just go on gardening leave for the remainder of their contract, then reinstated when the next one fucks up.

Much different circumstances I know, but Dalglish himself is a manager coming back to an old club, people had no issue with that.

 

Any player who has a problem with Benitez managing them, has a problem with success and being part of a team. I cant be any blunter than that. Rafa isnt running for popularity awards, he has no political ambition, he curries no favour in the media, the only decisions he makes are 100% centred around winning games. Of course, he gets some shouts wrong, every manager does. For every Di Maria and Ozil Mourinho signing there is a Altintop and a Varane around the corner.

 

People criticise Benitez mainly on two main things.

 

1) His last season

2) The two or three home draws in the season previous

 

That's a pretty short list considering he was here for 6 years. Had we had the funds for another £20m striker as back-up for Torres, we'd have won at lest one title in my opinion.

 

I like Rafa and appreciate everything he did here but do you remember Mr. Robert Keane?

[coop]

So people think the owners or DOF wouldn't talk to the club captain and vice captain regards their feelings towards an old manager or potential new one.

 

It happened before Rafa was appointed and it will continue to happen now Rafa has left.

 

This doesn't mean that they will only listen to these two players but it means they will value their input.

[JohnnyH]

So people think the owners or DOF wouldn't talk to the club captain and vice captain regards their feelings towards an old manager or potential new one.

 

It happened before Rafa was appointed and it will continue to happen now Rafa has left.

 

This doesn't mean that they will only listen to these two players but it means they will value their input.

 

Not sure it would. Do you think they'd consult Carra? He's no longer first team and will play even less next season. Yes, they may chat to Gerrard, but will his opinion hold much weight after the Hodgson debacle and his support of replacing Benitez with Roy?

[coop]

Not sure it would. Do you think they'd consult Carra? He's no longer first team and will play even less next season. Yes, they may chat to Gerrard, but will his opinion hold much weight after the Hodgson debacle and his support of replacing Benitez with Roy?

 

Looking at the length of time both players have been at the club and the amount of games between them then of course i think whoever makes the decision should at least ask their opinion.

 

The fact they are also captain and vice captain means they have a standing within the club.

 

Once again i am not saying they should be the ones appointing a manager but only that their opinion would be asked.

[WaltonRed]

I would suggest that if Benitez had not left / been sacked, Torres would still be our number one striker, so Rafa could kiss goodbye to 50 mil right there. We'd probably still have Meireles as well, if Torres was still here. Damnit we'd be good.

 

Purslow signed Meireles didnt he?

 

Plus, he was a shit bag with shit hair so good riddance to the rent boy

[Gym Beglin]

I like Rafa and appreciate everything he did here but do you remember Mr. Robert Keane?

 

I do, and I definitely remember we bought him for £20m, and then sold him for £16m, and then we were never given that money back to invest in another striker. So, in effect, we DID have another £20m striker on our books for a short time, and he scored five goals in 19 league games, so it WAS paying off, but then...pow...sold. We then had to make do with £1.5m David Ngog, and £0m Voronin.

 

I maintain this, but people who look at the entire period of Rafa's reign and deem him a failure, or a bad manager, or unskilled in the transfer market, are obviously not looking at the facts and making a judgement. They go into any such debate with a clear decision already made in their heads, and then re-arranging the facts to suit their pre-desired end conculusion.

 

If I truly believed Rafa was a bad manager, then I would not want him back. Not unless I was a sadomasachist, which I am not. I truly believe that he is the key to dragging this club back into the big leagues once more, kicking and screaming though, as we always do when faced with change.

 

I think that you, as fans, have to ask yourself one thing.

 

'Do you want Liverpool to be successful and competetive once more'?

 

If you do, then you have to put sentiment and any personal opinion aside, there is no room for romanticising the painful process of change. It has to be ruthless, it has to be fact-based.

I've put a lot of stock in hero-worshipping players for the last 20 years and it's, quite frankly, gotten us nowhere. Players are expendable, and they have to be reminded of that.

 

 

It's the one thing that I always would wish to ask Rafa, just what actually happened there with Keane.

[Gym Beglin]

So people think the owners or DOF wouldn't talk to the club captain and vice captain regards their feelings towards an old manager or potential new one.

 

 

Why SHOULD they be consulted?

What, they'd stop playing for another manager? Nice and professional that, their feet wouldnt touch the fucking ground if I was CEO, fuck off out of here if that's your attitude lads. Good luck, and fuck off.

 

You cannot, CANNOT, mix playing staff and coaching staff on a level where the coaching staff feel that they owe something to cerain members of the playing staff.

Raul Gonzalez tried to be all arsey, him and his clique at Madrid, and the club did the right thing, just ripped them out of the team. Not been a bad move by all accounts I think you'll agree.

 

Teams win trophies, not individuals. Teams are built by managers, not players.

[Paco]

There are two reasons that I hold a candle for Benitez, if you are interested.

 

1) He conducted himself very well while here. He 'got' the club very quickly, and he learnt to hate Ferguson very quickly.

 

2) There isn't exactly a dearth of managers out there who have proved they have the potential or credentials to mount a serious challenge for the league, or the Champions League.

 

I see some of the names mentioned in dispatches and I despair. Rafa is comfortably a better manager than almost all of them, if not all of them. Klopp is a keen fellow, and I like him, but what has he really done? Winning the title with Dortmund last season, yes, perhaps may even win it again this year, nice, but isnt that the minimum requirement for our calibre of manager anyway? They finished bottom of a weak CL group this season, and so it's no surprise to see them doing well in the Bundesliga, free from any European burden. Bayern are, however, only 3 points behind them and have remained in the CL.

 

Villas Boas, same story for me. Too little proven for him to climb aboard a big club. I think there is obviously a weakenss is his persona, he failed to rally a group of Chelsea players who are all too willing to rally behind Di Matteo. Yes, he was a club legend, but let's not kid ourselves, he wasn't Dennis Wise. The type of players and dynamics of a group that exist in that Chelsea team will exist in almost all the big teams in Europe, I'd be interested to see if he can ever repeat his success at Porto elsewhere.

 

Personally, I love Bielsa, he's a footballing god, he's a modern day Arrigo Sacchi. But I'd be shocked if Madrid didn't look to him to replace Mourinho, or even Barca.

 

I look at Rafa and I see pedigree. Big wins. Tactical acumen. Great signings. Media control. Ideas for youth set-ups.

It's a blessing that he's still available, but I'm not even sure HE'D take us on again. I think people presume he would, and I'm sure there are quotes which allude to it, but when it comes down to the crunch, I'm not sure he'd jump into it without a ton of proviso's to ensure he can run it like he wants.

 

I dont get people saying the 'control' aspect is a bad thing. I applaud a manager like Benitez who wants full control. There's too much blame avoidance in modern clubs these days, some managers are more than happy for someone else to carry the can for youth development, or transfers, or even coaching, or sorting out new contracts. That's bullshit, it's the American General Manager vs Coach model and it's bullshit.

It takes some balls to say you want full control, ergo, full culpability, for the whole playing staff set-up. That's the only way I'd take a job as well.

 

As the old saying goes, "a donkey is a horse designed by a committee".

 

For me, it's no argument that he was sacked once and should therefore never go back. Plenty of clubs re-hire old managers. In Italy they do it all the time even now, managers dont get severed they just go on gardening leave for the remainder of their contract, then reinstated when the next one fucks up.

Much different circumstances I know, but Dalglish himself is a manager coming back to an old club, people had no issue with that.

 

Any player who has a problem with Benitez managing them, has a problem with success and being part of a team. I cant be any blunter than that. Rafa isnt running for popularity awards, he has no political ambition, he curries no favour in the media, the only decisions he makes are 100% centred around winning games. Of course, he gets some shouts wrong, every manager does. For every Di Maria and Ozil Mourinho signing there is a Altintop and a Varane around the corner.

 

People criticise Benitez mainly on two main things.

 

1) His last season

2) The two or three home draws in the season previous

 

That's a pretty short list considering he was here for 6 years. Had we had the funds for another £20m striker as back-up for Torres, we'd have won at lest one title in my opinion.

 

there were polls on here in 2008 about who was still with rafa. we'd just lost the champions league semi final to chelsea. There was overwhelming support for him but there was a need for a poll to confirm this because the mumblings of discontent had begun.

 

your mate silverlining wanted rafa out circa nov 2005. 6 months after we'd won the CL.