Rafael Benitez: Football’s forgotten man

[TheDrowningMan]

 

Agree with all of that except for the Henderson comment - Henderson is a very very good player who is just playing shite for us at the moment.

 

Where's the evidence of that? Is it in the minor hype surrounding him a couple of years ago? Is it in his mediocre to competent performances for Sunderland or his godawful to mediocre displays for us? Is it in the Sunderland fans delighted that he commanded a fee wildly out of sync with his ability and potential?

 

He'll run down his contract making sporadic appearances and be sold for a million or two to a struggling club within a few seasons.

[Kennys_spell]

Where's the evidence of that? Is it in the minor hype surrounding him a couple of years ago? Is it in his mediocre to competent performances for Sunderland or his godawful to mediocre displays for us? Is it in the Sunderland fans delighted that he commanded a fee wildly out of sync with his ability and potential?

 

He'll run down his contract making sporadic appearances and be sold for a million or two to a struggling club within a few seasons.

 

His performances as England u21 Captain have been first class, his age, some of his performances for us have been very good when played in his prefered position. All of these things to me suggest that he has what it takes, You may not agree - that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion as I am mine.

 

I just think that given time and the confidence that can come from playing in a settled role at a settle club he will be very very good indeed.

 

Don't forget what was said about Lucas in his first season with us.

[TheDrowningMan]

He's shown tidy touches at times, but that doesn't mean much. He's Premiership reared and still looks uncomfortable. The Lucas comparison doesn't work because he was coming at a younger age from a drastically different league and culture & still looked much better than Henderson.

[stringvest]

He's shown tidy touches at times, but that doesn't mean much. He's Premiership reared and still looks uncomfortable. The Lucas comparison doesn't work because he was coming at a younger age from a drastically different league and culture & still looked much better than Henderson.

 

he really didn't. Lucas was poor in his first season. Henderson hasn't been great in his first season here, but he put in a very strong performance last night. Lucas has improved massively since his first season, I'm optimistic that we'll see the same improvement from Henderson.

[Kennys_spell]

He's shown tidy touches at times, but that doesn't mean much. He's Premiership reared and still looks uncomfortable. The Lucas comparison doesn't work because he was coming at a younger age from a drastically different league and culture & still looked much better than Henderson.

 

Isn't that more to do with the fact that it's an English technique rather than a foreign technique? I'm not even sure I'd agree that he looks uncomfortable - I'd say he looks as if he's still finding his way in a new system.

 

I just feel that at 21, to have played at all levels for England, to be the England u21 captain (against opposition from players like Rodwell, Martin Kelly, Oxlade-Chamberlin etc) to have been listed on the UEFA sight as "one to watch" in 2012 he must have something. I really do think that he will come good for us.

[lebron]

he really didn't. Lucas was poor in his first season. Henderson hasn't been great in his first season here, but he put in a very strong performance last night. Lucas has improved massively since his first season, I'm optimistic that we'll see the same improvement from Henderson.

 

Nah, Lucas was a bit overawed with the physical side at first, holding on to the ball too long and losing out in 50/50s. He always had the football brain and passing to play in the middle of the park. Imagine Henderson trying to fill Alonso's shoes the way Lucas had to (shudder).

 

Henderson doesn't (even if he can both spot a pass and execute it under certain circumstances) have what it takes to play for a top club in the middle of the park. He's not comfortable enough with the ball at his feet to play far up the pitch, and he's not good enough in the pressing/harassing/positioning to play deeper. He can work in a 3-man midfield for a lower club where that don't team have less of the ball, and his running around is basically to get the ball in advanced positions and having strikers on the run ahead of him (like he did at Sunderland). For us to become a top 4 club, we need players that can operate in between the lines (like Shelvey) and press/tackle (like Mascherano) or read control the game (like Alonso). They all need to be comfortable on the ball even under pressure, which is why Henderson will never be a success with us (unless we keep lowering the bar the way we've been doing since Rafa left) or another top club.

 

Kennys spell: Check Henderson's performance for the u-21s this summer, especially the game against Spain. Contrast his lack of awareness, pressing, and maturity with that of the Spain players (especially Martinez). The difference in quality is staggering.

 

He can run quite a bit though, I'll give him that. His best chance of making it with us is converting to right back (given that our two first choices there are made of glass), as his limitations will be less visible there than in the middle of the park.

[goatboy59]

Mmmm, and Spanish players don't often make their English counterparts look daft.

[lebron]

Mmmm, and Spanish players don't often make their English counterparts look daft.

 

Which is why it's so refreshing to see Shelvey - an Englishman with the right tools to not be ridiculed - i.e running around like a headless chicken like Henderson. Smalling, Wellbeck and Cleverley looked all right against the Spanish - what's your point? Mine is that Henderson isn't good enough if you didn't get it the first time - it didn't really come down to any national issues - just commenting on what Kennys spell said earlier about his performances for the u-21s (where he's been underwhelming every time I've seen him, except maybe against Norway).

[stringvest]

Nah, Lucas was a bit overawed with the physical side at first, holding on to the ball too long and losing out in 50/50s. He always had the football brain and passing to play in the middle of the park. Imagine Henderson trying to fill Alonso's shoes the way Lucas had to (shudder).

 

It wasn't the physical side that was his main issue. It was the fact he didn't know how to play the role. He would never show for the ball - he was usually 'hiding' behind an opposition player when one of our lot were in possession, and he could not judge the pace of the game - his passing was often suspect, his positioning worse, and he would give a lot of fouls away tackling people who had already got away from him. Games passed him by. Not now, but most definitely then.

 

For all Henderson's ineffectiveness, he's a better player for Liverpool in his first season than Lucas was in his first season. Of course, you could argue that he damn well should be, considering his age, how much we had to pay for him, and the fact that he's played in the PL for a while.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Is the very rare example of Lucas - who always had ability and his 'shitness' and 'greatness both massively exaggerated - going to be used every single time we buy a player who starts poorly?

 

Lucas coming from Brazil at 19/20, where he won Bola de Ouro, changing position and taking a while to adjust to the league and his new role isn't particularly comparable to Henderson. Or Carroll. Or any of the other players who will get the 'Lucas defence'.

 

BTW, I was one of the few people who stuck up for Lucas when he was getting hammered. I also think he's become overrated by some now that he has improved. Lucas always had quality - you don't win Bola de Ouro by being shit - but the adjustment he had to make was quite significant, and at an early point in his career.