Rafa will be sacked after world club champs

[18-5]

Some of the players Rafa signed were way beyond what they were worth.

 

Aquilani, Johnson, Keane, Babel, Riera and Dossena were all signed for way beyond what they were worth. We made massive losses on these players. Considering that we were signing these players on borrowed money it is fair to say that Rafa messed it up big time.

[RedinSweden]

AIDSes

[RedinSweden]

 

If only we could be feared all over England, he might still be here.

 

But I'm sure those European successes will influence Moratti when he ponders over RB's future there, rather than the more relevant-to-today surrenders to Spurs and Bremen.

 

Maybe he can get Roy in if he wants a manager feared in England. I'm shit scared of him when we play anywhere in England.

[Malarkey]

Rafa is being shit on purpose so he can get rich off being sacked.

 

Science.

[Cherry Ghost]

HFerguson won the Manager of the Year award despite Benitez's achievement being much more impressive

 

Well I might hate siralex the red nosed ruminator but I can't quite buy that one.

 

finishing 2nd v Winning the league/CL final/league cup winners/FA cup SF

 

Unless you are putting Liverpool in the Roy Hodgson/Fulham, didn't they do well for a little club category, which we are not.

[Hades]

Again succesful managers are allowed mistakes if there building succesful teams, Rafa failed to build a succesful team so deserves the shit for the mistakes

 

Bingo.

 

There's no point comparing Rafa's signings to Ginsoak and Shitcoat. Their stellar records allow for the odd blunder.

 

If he should be compared to anyone it's Wenger. Just compare their best signings (First 6 seasons only).

 

- Henry, Vieira, Pires, Petit, Campbell, Overmars, Ljungberg, Toure, Anelka

 

vs

 

- Torres, Reina, Alonso, Mascherano, Garcia, Benayoun, Crouch, Kuyt, Agger

 

After our top 4 there's a big dropoff in quality. You can't say the same for Arsenal's lot. I'm not even including Fabregas, Van Persie, Nasri, Vermaelen and Sagna who are all roaring successes.

[Guest TesticleOReilly]

Bingo.

 

There's no point comparing Rafa's signings to Ginsoak and Shitcoat. Their stellar records allow for the odd blunder.

 

If he should be compared to anyone it's Wenger. Just compare their best signings (First 6 seasons only).

 

- Henry, Vieira, Pires, Petit, Campbell, Overmars, Ljungberg, Toure, Anelka

 

vs

 

- Torres, Reina, Alonso, Mascherano, Garcia, Benayoun, Crouch, Kuyt, Agger

 

After our top 4 there's a big dropoff in quality. You can't say the same for Arsenal's lot. I'm not even including Fabregas, Van Persie, Nasri, Vermaelen and Sagna who are all roaring successes.

 

You can't compare anybody to Wenger, that bloke's a one-off.

[Spartacus]

Bingo.

 

There's no point comparing Rafa's signings to Ginsoak and Shitcoat. Their stellar records allow for the odd blunder.

 

If he should be compared to anyone it's Wenger. Just compare their best signings (First 6 seasons only).

 

- Henry, Vieira, Pires, Petit, Campbell, Overmars, Ljungberg, Toure, Anelka

 

vs

 

- Torres, Reina, Alonso, Mascherano, Garcia, Benayoun, Crouch, Kuyt, Agger

 

After our top 4 there's a big dropoff in quality. You can't say the same for Arsenal's lot. I'm not even including Fabregas, Van Persie, Nasri, Vermaelen and Sagna who are all roaring successes.

Benitez was more successful than Wenger during his tenure here.

[Spartacus]

Again succesful managers are allowed mistakes if there building succesful teams, Rafa failed to build a succesful team so deserves the shit for the mistakes

How long did it take Ferguson to become successful with the mancs? How many shite players did he sign during that time?

Heres an excerpt from wikipedia;

"For the 1989–90 season, Ferguson further boosted his squad by paying large sums of money for midfielders Neil Webb, Mike Phelan and Paul Ince, as well as defender Gary Pallister and winger Danny Wallace. The season began well with a 4–1 win over defending champions Arsenal on the opening day, but United's league form quickly turned sour. In September, United suffered a humiliating 5–1 away defeat against fierce rivals Manchester City. Following this and an early season run of six defeats and two draws in eight games, a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap. Ta ra Fergie." was displayed at Old Trafford, and many journalists and supporters called for Ferguson to be sacked.[33] Ferguson later described December 1989 as "the darkest period [he had] ever suffered in the game", as United ended the decade just outside the relegation zone.[34]"

It was to be another three years before he won his first league. (During which time he bought some good and some absolutely shite players.)

Well I might hate siralex the red nosed ruminator but I can't quite buy that one.

 

finishing 2nd v Winning the league/CL final/league cup winners/FA cup SF

 

Unless you are putting Liverpool in the Roy Hodgson/Fulham, didn't they do well for a little club category, which we are not.

David Moyes won the LMA manager Award (his 3rd!) that year.

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

How long did it take Ferguson to become successful with the mancs? How many shite players did he sign during that time?

Heres an excerpt from wikipedia;

"For the 1989–90 season, Ferguson further boosted his squad by paying large sums of money for midfielders Neil Webb, Mike Phelan and Paul Ince, as well as defender Gary Pallister and winger Danny Wallace. The season began well with a 4–1 win over defending champions Arsenal on the opening day, but United's league form quickly turned sour. In September, United suffered a humiliating 5–1 away defeat against fierce rivals Manchester City. Following this and an early season run of six defeats and two draws in eight games, a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap. Ta ra Fergie." was displayed at Old Trafford, and many journalists and supporters called for Ferguson to be sacked.[33] Ferguson later described December 1989 as "the darkest period [he had] ever suffered in the game", as United ended the decade just outside the relegation zone.[34]"

It was to be another three years before he won his first league. (During which time he bought some good and some absolutely shite players.)

 

David Moyes won the LMA manager Award (his 3rd!) that year.

 

so surely we should give Woy more time?

[INTORRESTING]

You can't compare anybody to Wenger, that bloke's a one-off.

 

who benitez fared better than in his time here.

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

Again succesful managers are allowed mistakes if there building succesful teams, Rafa failed to build a succesful team so deserves the shit for the mistakes

 

From the summer we signed torres onwards, he was always balancin the books, he never had the opportunity that mourinho and ferguson did, to buy absolute shite, and not have to use them due to the size & quality of the squad. In order to build a better team he had to continuously trade good parts of the current team.

 

LFC History Transfers

 

From January 08 on (bar having to pay out the fee to complete mascherano) we traded at a profit consistently, every window. That is not the kind of condition where you can so easily look to continue making better signings than torres, as sure as shit ain't shine-ola, it makes it real difficult to improve the squad, as you will always be gambling that if you are replacing a number of players with players who have cost less money you are by the whole fucking idea of value weakening your squad.

 

I was a huge Rafa fan, but for fucks sake some clowns think he should have been able to walk on water, whilst scrapping with the owners, battling for funds to improve the squad, and lead a charge in europe and the league.

 

With the funds that were available since January 08, we should have been happy to keep par with Arsenal, who in my opinion were closest to us in the transfer market. We had one bad season, and people went fucking nuts and called for his head, yes we were not consitently as fluent or easy on the eye as arsenal, but we had arguably a bit more success in Europe and trophy wise whilst Benitez was up against Wenger. Too many people took their eye off the ball last season, and let shitty fucking prejudices determine their support for the manager of Liverpool Football Club - right now we are reaping what they sowed, some of the people assocated with this great club have the manager they deserve, for the rest of us it will always be a case of what if.

 

What if Mark Robins hand't scored that goal.... where would the mancshite be now.... what if the ref had disallowed the fucking beachball, where would we be now.

 

Our big turning point was backing the manager for another season, or not, the team that played Madrid & the Mancshite off the park is worrying about getting the double done by Blackpool 18 or so months later, yes we were shite last season, but the club was at war in the boardroom, and between the boardroom and the fans.

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

Had Hicks and Gillett given Rafa the £12m back that he raised from Keane's sale in Jan, then we could have won the league that year. Instead, we had NGog as sole back-up to Nando. It wasn't Rafa's fault that that money just vanished when it hit our accounts.

 

Only Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger, Ancelotti, and Dalglish have won the Premier League for the 18 years during which it's been around. Rafa was 4 points off winning the league, we scored 9 more goals than United, and only conceded 3 more than them. It was our title and that £12m robbed us of it.

To rub salt into the wounds, Ferguson won the Manager of the Year award despite Benitez's achievement being much more impressive, Vidic won player of the Year despite only conceding 3 goals less than us and us thumping them 4-1 away, Van Der Sar won the Golden Glove mostly because they jammed an 11 match streak of not conceding a goal, and the PFA Player Player of the Year was won by Ryan Giggs. Benitez won manager of the month twice that season, and still lost the LMA Manager of the Year trophy to David Moyes.

 

Rafa was roundly ignored and dismissed by the authorities and his fellow managers when it came to awards and achievements. And this cemented the view that he was a failure in some people's eyes.

I love Rafa, he's the antidote to this horrible, disgusting world of professional footballer that we live in where everyone fears the establishment and is scared to try something new. How many teams were using 4231 before Rafa brought it to the Premiership?

If you don't 'get' what Benitez was trying to do, then I certainly am not the man to show patience enough to try to explain it to you. Natural selection, unlucky, you were just never meant to see the bigger picture.

 

You may think you're funny, I think you may be right

[mypost]

From the summer we signed torres onwards, he was always balancin the books, he never had the opportunity that mourinho and ferguson did, to buy absolute shite, and not have to use them due to the size & quality of the squad. In order to build a better team he had to continuously trade good parts of the current team.

 

Almost every coach and club had to do that. How many clubs faced administration-liquidation at some point? Those who coped best reaped the rewards, those who didn't, wondered why they couldn't.

[Redexile]

Can you enlighten me?

 

Who is this player that helped Benitez's C.V?

 

 

Carragher - his performance in Istanbul and many other games ( he was not alone here) was one of the reasons we ended up with the silverware and why Rafa can put European Champions league Winner & FA Cup winner behind his name. Not the sole reason mind you but enough , I would have thought, to earn him the right not to be labelled "a bitter" and a cunt.

[billypilgrimnz]

Our big turning point was backing the manager for another season, or not, the team that played Madrid & the Mancshite off the park......

 

I'm sick of those two games being disingenuously put forward as shorthand for how good Rafa was in his time at the club. I mean, in his time here, we played Man Utd 11 times, with a record of W4 D1 L6. Not impressive.

 

We had a good patch in the league with Rafa for one season, but he didn't have the ability to see it through, and we never got in spitting distance any of the other times. But beat Utd 4-1, and suddenly you had the team functioning like fucking Barcelona circa 2010.

[Best Believe It]

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

I'm sick of those two games being disingenuously put forward as shorthand for how good Rafa was in his time at the club. I mean, in his time here, we played Man Utd 11 times, with a record of W4 D1 L6. Not impressive.

 

We had a good patch in the league with Rafa for one season, but he didn't have the ability to see it through, and we never got in spitting distance any of the other times. But beat Utd 4-1, and suddenly you had the team functioning like fucking Barcelona circa 2010.

 

Billy don't be a hero:

 

10.03.2009 4 - 0 Real Madrid Anfield CL 1st knockout r. 2nd leg

14.03.2009 4 - 1 Man Utd Old Trafford Premier League

22.03.2009 5 - 0 Aston Villa Anfield Premier League

04.04.2009 1 - 0 Fulham Craven Cottage Premier League

08.04.2009 1 - 3 Chelsea Anfield CL Quarter-final 1st leg

11.04.2009 4 - 0 Blackburn Anfield Premier League

14.04.2009 4 - 4 Chelsea Stamford Bridge CL Quarter-final 2nd leg

21.04.2009 4 - 4 Arsenal Anfield Premier League

25.04.2009 3 - 1 Hull City KC Stadium Premier League

03.05.2009 3 - 0 Newcastle Anfield Premier League

09.05.2009 3 - 0 West Ham Upton Park Premier League

17.05.2009 2 - 0 WBA The Hawthorns Premier League

24.05.2009 3 - 1 Tottenham Anfield Premier League

 

That was as close to Benitez's valencia as he ever got, due to the requirement to fund any transfers through player sales, we will never really know what kind of a team he could have assembled, unfortunately unReal came knocking for 2 of our best players, and we never really got any momentum going last season. It wasn't 2 games, your argument is disingenuoiusiousous

[billypilgrimnz]

Put it this way: if I went around saying that it was good we got shot of Rafa because he was the guy who lead us to a 1-4 defeat at home to Chelsea and 3-6 defeat at home to Arsenal, I'd be rightfully labeled a crank.

[billypilgrimnz]

Billy don't be a hero:

 

10.03.2009 4 - 0 Real Madrid Anfield CL 1st knockout r. 2nd leg

14.03.2009 4 - 1 Man Utd Old Trafford Premier League

22.03.2009 5 - 0 Aston Villa Anfield Premier League

04.04.2009 1 - 0 Fulham Craven Cottage Premier League

08.04.2009 1 - 3 Chelsea Anfield CL Quarter-final 1st leg

11.04.2009 4 - 0 Blackburn Anfield Premier League

14.04.2009 4 - 4 Chelsea Stamford Bridge CL Quarter-final 2nd leg

21.04.2009 4 - 4 Arsenal Anfield Premier League

25.04.2009 3 - 1 Hull City KC Stadium Premier League

03.05.2009 3 - 0 Newcastle Anfield Premier League

09.05.2009 3 - 0 West Ham Upton Park Premier League

17.05.2009 2 - 0 WBA The Hawthorns Premier League

24.05.2009 3 - 1 Tottenham Anfield Premier League

 

That was as close to Benitez's valencia as he ever got, due to the requirement to fund any transfers through player sales, we will never really know what kind of a team he could have assembled, unfortunately unReal came knocking for 2 of our best players, and we never really got any momentum going last season. It wasn't 2 games, your argument is disingenuoiusiousous

 

I know it wasn't just two games, I already said it was a good run; as I said, I was objecting to the CONSTANT use of those two games in isolation as evidence of something. They mean nothing by themselves.

[Gym Beglin]

Carragher - his performance in Istanbul and many other games ( he was not alone here) was one of the reasons we ended up with the silverware and why Rafa can put European Champions league Winner & FA Cup winner behind his name. Not the sole reason mind you but enough , I would have thought, to earn him the right not to be labelled "a bitter" and a cunt.

 

I'd like to have tried the same experiment with another defender playing centre back to see if your logic stands up to scrutiny.

When people refer to Carragher's magical performances, they tend to forget he was one of the reasons we were 3-0 down at half time in a European Cup Final. People also tend to think that perhaps we would play with 10 men if Carragher was not around, no, we'd have another centre back.

 

I'm not knocking Carragher's contribution to the things we have won, but I'm not going to assume we would have lost games because he wasn't around either.

Jesus, some of you really have to get your head around the idea of this club surviving after Carragher and Gerrard hang their boots up or are moved on. Because it's going to happen, really soon, be it one, two or three years from now.

I can't wait for it, I want to see this team move out of the shadow of those two, I want to see success on the pitch and I believe that means creating a team, not building a team around those two and waiting to see if they can be arsed to give 100% depending on what position they're asked to play.

Systems win leagues, not players.

[Spartacus]

1st is first, 2nd is.......

No doubt if he wins today, he can list the World Club Cup Final again , (an absolute haphazard inconvenience of a "tournament") to his impressive array of "achievements".

 

Rafa is criticised for his professional dealings. No abuse or malice is meant on a personal level towards him.

........what got Roy Hodgson the Liverpool managers job. Runners up in the Europa League. May as well as given the job to Walter Smith, no?

[WilliamW]

Rafa is showing his class at Internazionale at the moment. Hopelessly outdated. He needs a sabbattical.

[Redexile]

I'd like to have tried the same experiment with another defender playing centre back to see if your logic stands up to scrutiny.When people refer to Carragher's magical performances, they tend to forget he was one of the reasons we were 3-0 down at half time in a European Cup Final. People also tend to think that perhaps we would play with 10 men if Carragher was not around, no, we'd have another centre back.

 

I'm not knocking Carragher's contribution to the things we have won, but I'm not going to assume we would have lost games because he wasn't around either.

Jesus, some of you really have to get your head around the idea of this club surviving after Carragher and Gerrard hang their boots up or are moved on. Because it's going to happen, really soon, be it one, two or three years from now.

I can't wait for it, I want to see this team move out of the shadow of those two, I want to see success on the pitch and I believe that means creating a team, not building a team around those two and waiting to see if they can be arsed to give 100% depending on what position they're asked to play.

Systems win leagues, not players.

 

 

WTF are you on about?? Maybe I should apply the same logic and say if we had a different manager in Istanbul with different first half tactics we might not have been 3 down but we didn't, so Rafa and Cara both deserve respect for their efforts in bringing home the silverware Something I asked of the poster I replied to.

[Redexile]

When people refer to Carragher's magical performances, they tend to forget he was one of the reasons we were 3-0 down at half time in a European Cup Final. People also tend to think that perhaps we would play with 10 men if Carragher was not around, no, we'd have another centre back.

 

I'm not knocking Carragher's contribution to the things we have won, but I'm not going to assume we would have lost games because he wasn't around either.

Jesus, some of you really have to get your head around the idea of this club surviving after Carragher and Gerrard hang their boots up or are moved on. Because it's going to happen, really soon, be it one, two or three years from now.

I can't wait for it, I want to see this team move out of the shadow of those two, I want to see success on the pitch and I believe that means creating a team, not building a team around those two and waiting to see if they can be arsed to give 100% depending on what position they're asked to play.

Systems win leagues, not players.

 

Here's a clue, go back and read my post before the one you commented on and then you'll maybe understand that my post had nothing to do with Carra being solely responsible ( although there was a clue in that post) for us winning in Istanbul. My posts were actually a request to Durango to treat Carra with the same respect he was asking other posters to treat Rafa with.