Cynicism and Frustration-We need Carragher as our manager

[Joe Le Taxi]

Almost like we lost today.

[Ted]

Not just any centre back... our boyhood Evertonian centre back.

 

And that matters......why?

[RobbieOR]

Not just any centre back... our boyhood Evertonian centre back.

 

Cheap dig that.

[chauncey]

And that matters......why?

 

Well if his "charity work and community work" can be used in the argument for, I don't see why my equally spurious and irrelevant tidbit cannot be used in the argument against.

[Ted]

Right so, him being a decent fella who does quite a bit for charidee is cancelled out by the fact that he used to be an Everton fan, even though he despises them now? Riiiight.

[Antynwa]

Never crossed my mind. Because it doesn't matter.

[Monster Masch]

Well if his "charity work and community work" can be used in the argument for, I don't see why my equally spurious and irrelevant tidbit cannot be used in the argument against.

 

I have negged you for your first post in this thread and I'd need you for the two that followed it, if I could.

[coop]

Kenny didn't have experience before he took the job? Did he?

 

Kenny is probably the greatest ever player to play for Liverpool and had the added bonus of having one of the greatest managers of all time advising him in Bob Paisley.

 

Other then that the situations are identical. :wallbutt:

[Vivaldo]

If we were to give Carra the job it could be similar to when Ireland gave Staunton the job. Its not worth taking the punt. the likes of your Guardiolas come about every 20 years or so.

 

Is that because opportunities are only given to those every 20 years or so?

 

i.e. How many other top clubs (top 4 Eng, Esp, IT) have given opportunities to rookie managers?

 

Spain = Guardiola - Success

Milan = Leanardo - Success (currently top 3 - no more of a failure in the league then ancelloti's last season)

[chauncey]

Right so, him being a decent fella who does quite a bit for charidee is cancelled out by the fact that he used to be an Everton fan, even though he despises them now? Riiiight.

 

You've missed the point I'm trying to make: both of those facts neither qualify nor disqualify him from making a good Liverpool manager. They're both irrelevancies and the only reason I brought up the Everton 'thing' was to show how pointless it is to appoint (or in this case rule out) a manager on such bases.

 

In short: what the fuck does Carra's status as a top bloke and professional, who clearly loves the club, have to do with him becoming a coach good enough for LFC?

[Red Nick]

[YOUTUBE]WRNYqsMIbg0[/YOUTUBE]

 

I cant believe this subject is even being debated

[jackofdk]

I'd say the best case scenario in this matter would be that the next manager takes Carra under his wings and makes him either reserve team coach (as Guardiola was albeit at a much higher level) or assistant manager. After learning the trade for three to four years then maybe Carra would be ready. And then the club could have time to assess his development as a coach properly.

 

Now would be a ridiculous roll of the dice that could easily facilitate our demise to mid table obscurity instead of getting us back on top.

[Red Nick]

Kenny is probably the greatest ever player to play for Liverpool and had the added bonus of having one of the greatest managers of all time advising him in Bob Paisley.

 

Other then that the situations are identical. :wallbutt:

 

Also at that point we had the best run football club in the world run from top to bottom.

[Welsh]

Carra has already said that when he eventually comes into management he will start at a lower league club.

[RobbieOR]

Is that because opportunities are only given to those every 20 years or so?

 

i.e. How many other top clubs (top 4 Eng, Esp, IT) have given opportunities to rookie managers?

 

Spain = Guardiola - Success

Milan = Leanardo - Success (currently top 3 - no more of a failure in the league then ancelloti's last season)

 

I meant it only really works every 20 years or so.

 

It worked in 85 with Kenny and in 09 in Pep.

 

Newcastle tried it and it backfired spectaculary with Shearer.

 

Its not really a good gamble to take you very rarely see it work. It would give everybody a boost to see Carra holding that scarf up but if he were to fail to a certain extent I would hate to see him be called a 'Cunt' etc because the man is a true legend of Liverpool Football club.

[Iantn]

I'd like Mourinho, infact I'd carry him here,

 

All your talk of cynicism and distrust is well founded in the modern game but that bit I've quoted is pretty poor given all that.

 

You are basically, it seems by saying that, saying if we ain't gonna win things you'd rather have someone like Carragher in there instead of a modern day manager. But if we are to be successful you'd not be arsed by it.

 

Defeats your own argument I reckon.

[Coro]

Strange to accuse Benitez of looking after himself, and himself only whilst advocating someone like Mourinho.

[LFC Ultra]

I want Jamie Carragher as our manager. There I said it. I'd like Mourinho, infact I'd carry him here, but I really, really want Carragher as manager of Liverpool Football Club.

 

The past two years, despite the 3 month period of sensational football towards the arse end of last season, has been filled with cynicism, media leaks, agendas, genuine confusion and frustration on and off the pitch. I'm fed up of reading the papers on a Sunday, Saturday or Monday and thinking 'Whats Rafa leaked now?'. I'm fed up of hearing every fort night 'New investment imminent' , I'm fed up of managers, and staff alike looking out for their best interests and theirs alone.

 

As I said, without wanting to go into debates which have been rehashed over and over again in many threads. I feel what this club needs as well as new investment, is local, proud and talented individuals to look after this clubs ethos. The Liverpool Way has been bashed around for years, people having differing opinions of what it means and what it doesn't. It's about time we brought it back, and brought it back with a vengeance.

 

Jamie Carragher is the epitome of what this club stands for, quality, commitment, and honour. His charity work and community work has been second to none, and his commitment to the Liverpool cause puts many players past and present to shame.

 

Whether or not he would take it is irrelevant, it's what I want want. Not what may or may not happen, but i believe it's what this club needs.

 

Rafa Benitez IMO has firmly been ruthless in attacking doubters, be it owners, former players, pundits or journo's. He demanded a 5 year contract, and despite this over the past few months has claimed how he could have been else where. He's looking after him, and him only. Fuck where his priorities lie, as long as he is getting paid a tidy wedge, he should be acting in the best interests of LFC, and he hasn't. Not by a long shot, since September our football has been nothing short of disgrace, 'possibilities' have been more fiction than fact, and he's led the fans on a merry ride.

 

Back in '07 we marched for Rafa, for his job and his future. Since then we have seen him leak stories to the press, ruthlessly striking down any nay sayer. We've had former players under Benitez, or otherwise criticising Benitez. It's got to the point, that no matter what he does, or what he says I don't trust it, nor do I believe it...Right fuck it I don't want to get into that.

 

I want a manager i can trust, I want a set up where the best interests of this club are put before any individual. It's about time this club came first, not politics managers and ownership alike seem to enjoy playing.

 

Martin Broughton has a massive task on his hand, and if there was one thing I could say to him now it would be this. 'Unite our club' from SOS to Share LFC. Our fanbase and club is split in different sections. We need an end to agenda and games, we need an end to supporter shame in our leadership. We need a battle plan. Whether it takes Martin 6 weeks or 6 months. We need an owner with the best interests of this club at heart. we need management and ownership that can sit down and put forward a battle plan for the next ten years.

 

We need trust in our club, we need the Liverpool Way back. We need to sit down around a table before a ball is kicked and talk, about this club, and nothing more.

 

As I said, I don't want to get into the Rafa situation, rightly or wrongly my trust from management upwards has gone completely. I need a manager who has the club and the community at heart, and the one person who suits that is Jamie Carragher.

Whilst I admire your passion, your thinking with your heart not your head. Whilst Jamie is undoubtedly a Liverpool legend, he is nowhere near ready to take the hot seat at a club with similarities to the Titanic.

 

A legendary Liverpool born centre half with a burning passion to succeed does not:

 

Create much needed revenue to compete in the market with the big players.

 

Provide the much needed managerial experience required to lead one of the worlds most famous clubs.

 

Will not help to attract the big name players to Liverpool.

 

Does not make you into a master tactician with a sound tactical nouse that is essential if your team is to succeed at the highest level.

 

Whilst not without fault, Rafa is as good as it gets at the moment and whilst not without criticism, he doesn't even come close to being the root cause of the problems at Liverpool Football Club.

 

Due to dire financial circumstances beyond the manager's control, the margin for error at Liverpool is far less than the other top clubs. Every mistake in the transfer market is therefore magnifide beyond the realms of fairness.

 

Last seasons over-achievement raised everybody's expectations off the scale, including my own. However, in the cold light of day if you take the time out to sit down and analyse our failings, the league table doesn't lie. We are were we are and as much as it pains me to say it, where we belong at this present time.

 

When the best striker in the world is missing for 75% of your season, one of the world's best midfielders is missing for 50% of your season (And allegedly got mega personal issues and had poorest season ever), your £17 million right back is missing for 50% of the season and untold injuries to the rest of the squad, it is bound to affect the progression of the club. Add this to the bad luck (beach ball gate, refereeing decisions, suspensions) and the goings on behind the scene, I am afraid it wouldn't matter who was in charge, we were on the decline from the very first day of the season. You can knock Rafa as much as you want but you cannot hide behind the FACTS.

 

I agree, Dalglish didn't have any experience when he took over but that was an era of football that has been lost forever (Homegrown and British players in every team, no sky money, no mercenaries, no over paid Johnny Foreigners, no badge kissers, no prawn sandwich brigade and ticket prices affordable to everybody). We are now in an era of 'modern football' where money dictates success and money is a precious commodity LFC have very little of.

 

You could argue that Rafa's Liverpool plays negative football, last years stats say not (top scorers and record prem points total). Personally, I do think our football is too negative but is it any more negative than Mourinho's was at Chelsea or Capello's for England and in Italy? The truth is, it doesn't matter how negative your team plays as long as your team is successful, Gerrard Houllier's Liverpool pays testament to that. So to knock the waiter for negative football is a little unfair if you take time out to think about things logically.

 

Liverpool are in their rightful position at present and only a massive financial injection will help Liverpool navigate their way back in to the top 4. Given the financial power of Chelsea and Man City, money will not guarantee us the title it will only give us the opportunity to challnge for it which should be a minimum requirement for any Liverpool team.

 

If Jamie wants to go into management he will need to go through the due process like everybody else. He is young, a great pro, a fantastic role model and his time will come when the time is right but that time is not now, not in the current climate and not with the current team.

 

There is no better 'AVAILABLE' man to lead Liverpool at this moment in time. Those who want rid have short memories and should be careful what they wish for. Curbishley, Allardyce, Hughes, Hodgson just don't do it for me and the anti-Rafa taliban would be slaughtering the new guy within the first 'potless' season, even if we did play swashbuckling football. Top 7 is as good as it gets at the moment, a FACT we have to live with, with or without Rafa!

[Guest ShoePiss]

If he was given it he'd get my full support of course, I just don't feel it's the right time.

 

This has come up so many times and each time someone pipes up with "well it worked with Kenny", not only did he have Paisley as Coop mentioned but he had the best backroom staff in the business and inherited the best team in Europe, not just a team that managed to win the European cup a little fortunately but the best team domestically and in Europe.

 

Completely different situation here, Kenny was allowed to ease into the job given the above circumstances, Carra would have no such luxury. He'd be set up to fail.

[Pidge]

Newcastle tried it and it backfired spectaculary with Shearer.

 

Not really, they were already well on their way at that point.

 

But I don't think carra's ready, not as player-manager anyway. Think about how he shouted at Alvaro last year and Glen this... think if that abuse was from the manager. Wouldn't be good for the team.

[el matador]

i dont think it would be fair to carra to chuck him into the deep end. There's absolutely no reason why he has to go and manage somewhere else ie in the lower leagues to get some experience.

 

He can handle the reserves or learn his trade under our first team manager and step up in 2 / 3 seasons. Pep Guardiola did it and im sure carra could have the same impact. He's been under souness, evans, houllier, benitez and a host of england managers.

 

Tactically he will exceptionally strong and everyone says that he's a proper student of the game. 1 seasons with reserves, a couple seasons as jose's understudy should give him the confidence he needs to take this job on. There wont be a single complaint from any true liverpool fan because carra is lfc through and through.

[Monster Masch]

2 or 3 Seasons at the reserves first and then I'd be happy for him to be LFC manager. As he would do it the right way, the Liverpool way. Even those pictures from the train the last day, Jamie had a Sports Science Magazine. I'd say he wants to be a successful manager, so so much.

[Guest ShoePiss]

i dont think it would be fair to carra to chuck him into the deep end. There's absolutely no reason why he has to go and manage somewhere else ie in the lower leagues to get some experience.

 

He can handle the reserves or learn his trade under our first team manager and step up in 2 / 3 seasons. Pep Guardiola did it and im sure carra could have the same impact. He's been under souness, evans, houllier, benitez and a host of england managers.

 

Tactically he will exceptionally strong and everyone says that he's a proper student of the game. 1 seasons with reserves, a couple seasons as jose's understudy should give him the confidence he needs to take this job on. There wont be a single complaint from any true liverpool fan because carra is lfc through and through.

 

He hasn't worked under Souness unless you're saying just being at the club as a youth counts...he signed as a pro in '96. Agree with what you're saying though.

[Kevin D]

Sami Hyypia.

[JohnnyH]

Of course there is always the chance that Carra could do really well and take us on. However, the more likely outcome would be that Carra, a totally inexperienced lad who we know takes great interest in the game but has never managed, would fail. He would struggle to balance all the things you have to balance these days. He would struggle to buy quality at the cheaper end of the market because he doesn't have the contacts or know the international market from experience. He would have to deal with budgets and owners and chief executives. And most of all he would have to be able to out think the great minds of the game to get the better of them. All with out any previous experience.

 

Liverpool are on the edge of disaster. We are teetering on the brink of financial ruin and that will lead to regular lower-mid table and even down the leagues. To entrust the team to a young lad with no managerial experience makes no sense at all. If anything, it could kill his young career before it even starts.

 

Carra may turn out to be a great manager. He may also turn out to be another Paul Ince. Carra deserves a chance to make it, and to make it he needs to start lower down. It'd be great if Carra became a successfull manager of Liverpool Football Club, but I wouldn't like to see him in the job until he is about 45 and having been a success elsewhere, or as assistant manager to a successfull Liverpool manager.

 

This has been suggested before. But I can't help but think it is done solely from the heart. And that is the very last thing we need deciding on who is going to be the next Liverpool manager. A bad idea.