Babel and Voronin

[Best Believe It]

How can you say Rafa is not to blame? 11m is alot to spend on a player if he hasn't done a background check on him. It is clear that Ryan has an attitude problem, why was it not picked up before we splashed the best part of our transfer budget on him? It's just like Diouf all over again.

 

We signed him the same summer we signed Torres. Torres cost £18 odd million.

[Dougie Do'ins]

Thought Voronin was our best player, to be honest.

Quite unbelievable.

 

Was a huge gamble.

 

Malouda was reportedly Rafa's number one target. He turned us down.

 

Then it was between and Babel and Mancini, but Echo reported that club were concerned with his mental stability etc, which is why he opted for Babel.

 

As much as I hate Wenger, he dodged a bullet with Babel, as Arsenal were heavily linked to him.

Not having a go at at you here 1892 but it seems that this excuse is used whenever we sign a player who who doesn't make the grade. He was never the number one target. There's a list of them now and I'm sure I don't have to name them.

 

As for last night. How anyone thought My Little Pony played well is beyond me. He quite clearly shit out of his first 50/50 tackle inside the first 15 mins and I would be interested to see his pass completion ratio.

 

The only person who would have taken anything positive from MLP's performance last night will have been Steven Gerrard as we now have proof we have another play who takes worse corners.

[Whelan]

I think he's trying to say that Sami was an Ajax gem?

 

No I am not.

 

Robben played for PSV did he not? I was pointing out the league is generally shite and buying 'stars' from that league will always be problematical, Babel and Huntellar is a case in point.

 

Is that okay?

[Carra_is_legend]

Well since that could (and I have compared) be aimed at me, I am not comparing purchases merely pointing out the fact that every manager from Ancelloti to Staunton will buy players who do not turn out.

 

Babel is shite and so is Huntellar (another ajax 'gem'), but Robben is brilliant and so was Hypia. I have no problem with Rafa taking the risk with Babel, I would have a problem if he continued to play him, I have more of a problem with the Keane signing than any other signing of his, I still cannot for the life of me figure that one out. But Babel was an investment and like a lot of investments it hasn't paid out.

 

I don't have a problem with Rafa signing anyone. When it works out, he gets praised. When it doesn't, he gets the blame. To me, it can't be any simpler than that.

 

No one said Rafa should get the boot for signing Babel. But I think the fans are more than entitled to ask questions like "Who the fuck decided to spunk £11m on him and £7m on Dossena?". If someone asked me that question, I wouldn't try and justify Rafa (or the scouting system) by pointing at how Torres only cost £20m or how players like Nani, Anderson, Jeffers, Berbatov and Shevchenko were expensive and are now shit. To me, Rafa did very well to sign Torres and he was wrong to sign Dossena or Babel.

 

And I don't care about how our rivals have signed crap players for big money. I only care about my club. As Juan pointed out, there are players who MADE it big at our rivals for a fraction of the price. Swings and roundabouts.

 

As a matter of fact, till this date, I haven't openly criticised Rafa for signing Babel. I have always criticised Babel himself for his attitude and lack of heart.

[Whelan]

I don't have a problem with Rafa signing anyone. When it works out, he gets praised. When it doesn't, he gets the blame. To me, it can't be any simpler than that.

 

No one said Rafa should get the boot for signing Babel. But I think the fans are more than entitled to ask questions like "Who the fuck decided to spunk £11m on him and £7m on Dossena?". If someone asked me that question, I wouldn't try and justify Rafa (or the scouting system) by pointing at how Torres only cost £20m or how players like Nani, Anderson, Jeffers, Berbatov and Shevchenko were expensive and are now shit. To me, Rafa did very well to sign Torres and he was wrong to sign Dossena or Babel.

 

And I don't care about how our rivals have signed crap players for big money. I only care about my club. As Juan pointed out, there are players who MADE it big at our rivals for a fraction of the price. Swings and roundabouts.

 

As a matter of fact, till this date, I haven't openly criticised Rafa for signing Babel. I have always criticised Babel himself for his attitude and lack of heart.

 

Don't think you are getting my point regarding signing players, don't recall ever stating it is okay to sign shite players because United signed Nani!

 

Can't be arsed arguing semantics over Ryan Babel, I'm really dissapointed in him, the lad just hasn't go it.

[Catch22]

Anelka 500k. Sold 23m. Ronaldo 12m. Sold 80m. Swings and roundabouts.

 

 

Yes, that is why you cant look at any deal in isolation but overall.

On that basis Rafa has a better record than managers at other big 4 clubs.

 

LadyBoy is a very interesting case:

We (GH not Rafa) also wanted him but the Mancs offered him a far higher salary (& could have outbid us with the club as well) so he went there.

There was no magic in spotting him (there was in developing him & i accept it is possible we would have done a worse job doing that) just as there was no magic in RM spotting LadyBoy & Xabi from last season's PL- the key is to be able to offer the player enough cash so he'll move.

(This has also worked many times in our favour: The BS would have got Momo if we hadn't offered him a lot more cash)

 

Babel is far from Rafa's worse buy: that honour must go to Keane but he crucially hasn't dealt with the worsening situation quickly enough (unlike Keane) so the problem has grown & grown.

The difficulty is that Babel has occasionally offered little cameos which persuade us to keep him before relapsing into utter shite.

[Guest LFD]

Babel is awful on the left and Benitez has to stop playing him in that position.

 

I think he's either got to be play upfront or on the right... otherwise not at all.

 

Hopefully he'll have a great world cup, his value will appreciate and we can cut our losses.

[Unrighteous]

Babel is awful on the left and Benitez has to stop playing him in that position.

 

I think he's either got to be play upfront or on the right... otherwise not at all.

Hopefully he'll have a great world cup, his value will appreciate and we can cut our losses.

 

I choose the emboldened part.

[aws]

Babel is a complete waster. Should have played Amoo as at least we'd have had some effort.

 

Voronin is not good enough but at least he tried a bit and showed some decent touches towards the end.

[Tyler Durden]

Quite unbelievable.

 

Not having a go at at you here 1892 but it seems that this excuse is used whenever we sign a player who who doesn't make the grade. He was never the number one target. There's a list of them now and I'm sure I don't have to name them.

 

As for last night. How anyone thought My Little Pony played well is beyond me. He quite clearly shit out of his first 50/50 tackle inside the first 15 mins and I would be interested to see his pass completion ratio.

 

The only person who would have taken anything positive from MLP's performance last night will have been Steven Gerrard as we now have proof we have another play who takes worse corners.

 

One thing sums it up for me last night about him, the ball gets cleared up to him with 1 minute to go and he has the chance to control and lay off to benayoun so he instead tries some daft jumping back heel and loses it. He is fucking terrible and it was a diabolical decision for him to be anywhere near the first team and have allowed him to return from his loan.

[Antynwa]

I don't see why Voronin had to start last night. We all know he's a moaning fucking shithouse. I didn't need another 90 minutes to see that.

[Whelan]

Babel is a complete waster. Should have played Amoo as at least we'd have had some effort.

 

Voronin is not good enough but at least he tried a bit and showed some decent touches towards the end.

 

Other than Neil Ruddock I have never hated another Liverpool player, but I hate him. However if reports are correct that Patches would have played had he not been on international duty, you would have to surmise that it would have been instead of the long haird duffer from Liverpool. I get the impression a player with little fight to start with, knows he is not wanted and is just biding time.

[zico]

They should both be moved on, no way will either of them make an impact for us!

[William_Ulsterman]

Do you think we can make a profit on voronin? i doubt it with the shit balls he played last night he just looked out of his depth.

 

Ngog looked much more confident a hungry for the ball, he had quite a turn of speed as well last night i was impressed. He just need to work on fitness as he did look out of juice late on.

 

Babel has talent but his attitude sucks so bad, and i dont think that will ever change so ship him out in asap.

[SpeedyG]

Who the fuck is gonna be stupid enough to take Babel from us and actually pay us money for the privilege?

 

A team who plays counter-attacking football.

[SpeedyG]

Yes, that is why you cant look at any deal in isolation but overall.

On that basis Rafa has a better record than managers at other big 4 clubs.

 

LadyBoy is a very interesting case:

We (GH not Rafa) also wanted him but the Mancs offered him a far higher salary (& could have outbid us with the club as well) so he went there.

There was no magic in spotting him (there was in developing him & i accept it is possible we would have done a worse job doing that) just as there was no magic in RM spotting LadyBoy & Xabi from last season's PL- the key is to be able to offer the player enough cash so he'll move.

(This has also worked many times in our favour: The BS would have got Momo if we hadn't offered him a lot more cash)

 

Babel is far from Rafa's worse buy: that honour must go to Keane but he crucially hasn't dealt with the worsening situation quickly enough (unlike Keane) so the problem has grown & grown.

The difficulty is that Babel has occasionally offered little cameos which persuade us to keep him before relapsing into utter shite.

 

I was reading somehwhere that Arsenal's academy has been responsible for 50m in transfer revenue. It'd be interesting to see that side of things factored in.

[SpeedyG]

4 wingers all moved at the same time all biggish money.

 

Nani 45(5)/17m, Malouda 60(10)14m, Babel 61(9)12m and Walcott 65(7)10m.

 

Malouda excepted, got to the fan sites of those teams and they are saying the exact same things that are being said about Babel.

[Unrighteous]

4 wingers all moved at the same time all biggish money.

 

Nani 45(5)/17m, Malouda 60(10)14m, Babel 61(9)12m and Walcott 65(7)10m.

 

Malouda excepted, got to the fan sites of those teams and they are saying the exact same things that are being said about Babel.

 

Hang on, just one minute. Walcott and Nani have the first touch of a rapist as well? Fuck me.

[Antynwa]

Just because other managers, have had more money to spend doesn't Benitez should be null and void of criticism because of any other signings he has made.

 

Don't make me get my shit 'Benitez, Baconface and Wenger went to Catering Class' story out

[rebel23]

I still think it's unfair to lump in Voronin and Babel, one is providing experienced cover the other is just a total waste who shouldnt be at Liverpool

[Dublin Red]

I still think it's unfair to lump in Voronin and Babel, one is providing experienced cover the other is just a total waste who shouldnt be at Liverpool

 

I'd go with that.

 

Voro isn't great but he tried last night and was unlucky a few times. Had a nice 1-2 movement with Degen that nearly came off. Tried a few nice through balls for others that didn't come off. But I'd keep him as "late" cover in matches.

 

Babel, on the other hand is fucking woeful. He has the worst first touch I have ever seen. You would think our scouts would have spotted that. And last night, despite the decent knock down for Insua's goal, he was a selfish prick who wouldn't pass to anyone else despite consistantly failing to get by his marker.

[Catch22]

I was reading somehwhere that Arsenal's academy has been responsible for 50m in transfer revenue. It'd be interesting to see that side of things factored in.

 

That's a good point.

 

However it is important to remember that their are huge costs to Arse's approach.

 

Firstly, they role the dice an awful lot.

Young players are risky investments which pay off spectacularly sometimes.

If you make a lot of them, some will do so, but you have a lot of start-up costs.

 

Secondly, they pay these guys huge wages.

Fabregas did not leave Barca for London's weather.

Ramsey chose them over the Mancs recently which means they had to offer him a lot more even than they pay their kids.

 

Arse's footballing budget is slightly higher than ours.

They don't pay their superstars as much, they don't spend as much on fees & they raise more on sales.

All that & more is accounted for by the extra wages they throw at their young players.

 

From that, it is easy to see that over the last 5 years, the difference in spending on their young players' wages over ours is a lot more than £50m.

 

Wenger is a very clever man & this is a deliberate policy on his part which may well be the right one.

But it expensive which is rarely talked about.

[RoboRiise]

Do you think we can make a profit on voronin? i doubt it with the shit balls he played last night he just looked out of his depth.

 

 

He was a free transfer so unless we end up having to pay someone to take him off our hands (and I can't rule it out completely) I'd hope so. Or were you taking his signing fee and wages into account?

[King Emlyn]

Voronin was actually very good in the last 30 minutes, Babel is just pointless.

[christhered]

Babel has turned out to be a shit horse, of course its easy to blame Rafa but at the time Babel was one of the most exciting players in Europe. He had a crack at signing him and unfortunately he obviously wasnt the player we all thought he was. I would go so far to say as I was looking forward to see what kind of impact he was going to make more than Torres.

Its now pretty clear he is just a piss poor greedy prick of a footballer with no first touch, time to offload him asap before he is his value drops even further.

 

The signing of Voronin is a different matter, he is just a fat ponytail cunt with a footballing brain 5 seconds slower than everybody elses, we should nickname him Homer.

The "between the lines" comment by Rafa would be funny, if Voro wasnt so bad.