The Bulger Programme

[bri]

robbief. no offence bud but you might want to take those kind of comments off a public forum, just from a legal point of view.

[ReddOrDedd]

all this shit about 'they done it however many years ago, you can't keep on at them' is bollocks. if you can't keep on at them then you need to forgive them. i for one am behind anyone who doesn't want to forgive them. i am equally behind anyone who is willing to forgive them because that shows that they stick by what they believe in no matter how much i or anyone else disagrees.

 

my brother got beat up by 7 lads on the local footy field by mine when he was 7 and they where 11 and 12. at the time i was 5. i know he never got anything as bad as james bulger and he's still here with us but i couldn't forgive it. the fact is every time i think of how our kid felt when he had 7 lads around him beating him up and laughing makes me physically sick. at the moment theres only one more i need to get. the other six have all had their come uppance on a one on one basis. i'v seen them all out and in various places and just chose my moment to make it count. i see the last one all the time but he's always with his girlfriend, the moment i see him on his own he'll be done with and i won't feel sick anymore, i will know they've got what they deserved even if it is 13 years late. and the fact that they might have changed is bollocks, all of the lads i'v got 'revenge' on have been scum still and i don't regret anything. i would fully agree with anyone who got back at these two cunts.

 

think about people who have been abused as children and done something with their lives............ that is the worst excuse i'v ever heard for a killer. actually, it may be an acceptable excuse as a reason why they done it, but it's not an excuse for a light sentance or to make it in any way understandable / acceptable.

 

Are you seriously still chasing after kids who beat up your brother 13 years ago when you were all young lads? Is he?

[Strontium]

Oh except Strontium Dog who has just basically said his Mother deserved that as she wasn't looking after him, as another foumite said, one of the worst things ive ever read on this forum.

 

 

I didn't actually say that, but from the progress of the thread so far, I can see facts and reasoned argument are at a premium here, so whatever.

[Anubis]

Lads I'm not sensitive to this issue. I know that people will hold strong opinions on both sides of the divide, and I appreciate that, as with any incident of this nature, there will be all the usual stuff such as jokes, etc that go with it. My beef with SD lies solely with him seeming to blame Denise for James's death, while not hearing a word against Thompson and Venables.

 

As for whether these lads were born evil or were victims of their circumstances then I don't believe anyone is born evil, but are shaped by their circumstances and the choices they make that go hand in hand. If you happen to beborn with your brain wired the wrong way and you have a personality disorder then you do have a head start. The reason personality disorders are not classed as mental illness is because they are untreatable. However sorry we feel for such people we have to recognise that their disorder does make them dangerous, and they are still capable of exercising a choice. I don't know if that applies to either of these boys but I hope for their sakes it doesn't. I've dealt with a number of client's who have personality disorders, and they are the most dangerous people I've come across.

 

As for the alleged sexual assault, for the sake of nipping this on the bud I can tell you it's false. Thanks for stepping in Nick, but I haven't been distressed at what I've read. The forum's about debate, and as I said there are strong feelings on both sides, and whilst there's no need to stop debating on my account there's no need for you to start insulting each other.

[Top of the Kop]

For anyone interested there is actually a 6 part documentary on youtube that deals with all the debates etc that have gone on in this thread...interesting viewing i must say:

 

the first part of 6 is here: YouTube - Unforgiven - The boys who murdered James Bulger (PART ONE)

[drewy]

I didn't actually say that, but from the progress of the thread so far, I can see facts and reasoned argument are at a premium here, so whatever.

 

No but you implied it, like you say you 'intellectual belligerent get', whatever.

[Paul]

I'm just surprised that so many people watched the programme. Even the idea of it was stomach churning to me; I don't want to know the details of this kind of shit - it's too horrible.

 

On the personality disorder thing, despite them apparently not being classed as mentally ill, I would still very much regard them as damaged. The fact that these people are apparently untreatable is surely even more reason to study and understand these sorts of crimes so that we can find ways to treat such people in future.

[kopboy11]

A friend used to work in a young offenders prison near Birmingham which had both Thompson&Venables through at different stages.According to him one of them (not 100% sure which one) is an evil bastard with no concience or regard for anyone only himself.The other was a dumb kid heavily influenced by his smarter mate,which seems to fit in with what Scouse Missionary said about one of them seemingly rehabilitated and him having doubts about the other walking free.

[cochcaer]

Re: the sexual assault and their post-trial rehab, I would suggest reading this:

Without a trace - Times Online

 

There are more lengthy articles about who removed James' clothing and genital abuse. This seems to have been Thompson, who was abused himself and would not discuss if for a long time for fear of being branded 'a pervert'. I'm not sure to this day whether either have been totally open and honest about the events of that day.

 

A good read here but it's harrowing in places:

Death of James Bulger - Crime Library on truTV.com

[cochcaer]

An excerpt from the second link:

 

"I'm not a pervert"

 

Detectives saved the most difficult questions for last. James had some trauma to his genitals, and police believed that one (or both) of the boys had inserted AA batteries into his rectum. These questions upset Robert more than any other accusations. When they asked who removed James's pants and underwear, he began to cry. "I'm not a pervert, you know," he said, suddenly agitated. "Well, how would you like me calling you a pervert?" Normally collected, Robert lost it. "He said I'm a pervert, they said I've played with his willy," he told his mom, and refused to answer any more questions. But the detectives persisted. "What would Jon say you did to James?" they asked. Robert was greatly upset by now. He said Jon would say he took off James's pants and played with his "privates."

 

Toward the end of the interviews, Robert said that Jon tried to cover up James's head with stones, but he admitted to putting one brick on, to stop all of the bleeding.

[Strontium]

My beef with SD lies solely with him seeming to blame Denise for James's death, while not hearing a word against Thompson and Venables.

 

 

No, that's not true, the only people who should bear any blame for this terrible crime are the people who did it. I feel I ought to apologise for being a bit snarky earlier and perhaps giving the false impression that the victim's parents should shoulder any fault. Sorry about that, I was tired and in a bolshy mood.

[Anubis]

No, that's not true, the only people who should bear any blame for this terrible crime are the people who did it. I feel I ought to apologise for being a bit snarky earlier and perhaps giving the false impression that the victim's parents should shoulder any fault. Sorry about that, I was tired and in a bolshy mood.

 

No worries, it's an emotive issue and we all post things from time to time that we later wish we hadn't.

[Antynwa]

I couldn't watch the TV programme.

 

I just can't get it into my head what would drive two ten year olds to do such a thing, then you look at the up bringing. It's nuture over nature.

 

The whole thing is just heart breaking

[Top of the Kop]

An excerpt from the second link:

 

in the documentary i posted up they dismissed any claims of sexual assault

[Top of the Kop]

A friend used to work in a young offenders prison near Birmingham which had both Thompson&Venables through at different stages.According to him one of them (not 100% sure which one) is an evil bastard with no concience or regard for anyone only himself.The other was a dumb kid heavily influenced by his smarter mate,which seems to fit in with what Scouse Missionary said about one of them seemingly rehabilitated and him having doubts about the other walking free.

 

i thought they stayed in the same prison for their entire sentence (near essex or something)...you might want to make sure that your mate isn't talking rubbish...

[drewy]

i thought they stayed in the same prison for their entire sentence (near essex or something)...you might want to make sure that your mate isn't talking rubbish...

 

One was in St Helens the other Salford for almost their entire sentence.

[Ginny]

I got told a few years ago that were going to footy matches when they were meant to be locked up. I dont know how much truth there is in it like?

[Top of the Kop]

I got told a few years ago that were going to footy matches when they were meant to be locked up. I dont know how much truth there is in it like?

 

Every week they would be allowed out with guards and taken for days out e.g. a trip to OT. If you watch the documentary i posted it answers all the questions that have been asked on this thread

[Harry Squatter]

Anyone saying that they'd forgive them or move on only needs to ask themselves one question, 'Would I be able to forgive them if these two did that to my two year old son or daughter?'

 

I'm not a father yet but if someone did something like this to either of my kids there is no way on earth I'd forgive or forget and I'd make sure they got punished more than living in isolation for ten years and getting a better education than they would have done if they had stayed in their own school.

 

Imagine what it was like for Denise and Ralph Bulger to hear that their two year old boy had gone missing and died?, bad enough but they had to sit through gruesome details of their son being tortured without knowing what was going or why it was happening to him. After he died he got placed on a railway track and got cut into two by a train, they would have probably had to have identified what was left of him and then face the press who were just after a big story and not that bothered about their feelings. You always get the people pointing the finger at them saying that they should have been looking after him properly which would hurt you forever. Not many people would be able to come out of that without being completely fucked up. They eventually split up and he was angry for years, I saw a documentary where he has to go fishing every day and batters a punchbag constantly because he is still so angry about his son being taken from him.

 

I think if anyone suffered something like this they'd be more than entitled to be bitter and hate the cunts who did it forever. Even more so considering they seem to have got off lightly.

[Total Longo]

Anyone saying that they'd forgive them or move on only needs to ask themselves one question, 'Would I be able to forgive them if these two did that to my two year old son or daughter?'

 

I'm not a father yet but if someone did something like this to either of my kids there is no way on earth I'd forgive or forget and I'd make sure they got punished more than living in isolation for ten years and getting a better education than they would have done if they had stayed in their own school.

 

Imagine what it was like for Denise and Ralph Bulger to hear that their two year old boy had gone missing and died?, bad enough but they had to sit through gruesome details of their son being tortured without knowing what was going or why it was happening to him. After he died he got placed on a railway track and got cut into two by a train, they would have probably had to have identified what was left of him and then face the press who were just after a big story and not that bothered about their feelings. You always get the people pointing the finger at them saying that they should have been looking after him properly which would hurt you forever. Not many people would be able to come out of that without being completely fucked up. They eventually split up and he was angry for years, I saw a documentary where he has to go fishing every day and batters a punchbag constantly because he is still so angry about his son being taken from him.

 

I think if anyone suffered something like this they'd be more than entitled to be bitter and hate the cunts who did it forever. Even more so considering they seem to have got off lightly.

 

 

Spot on

[Flying Pig]

Two young 10-year-old boys from horrible homes - one of whose mother was an alkie, and whose dad was also an alkie who beat and sexually abused his wife and kids - commit a horrific crime against another child.

 

I just think the whole thing is heartbreaking for everyone involved, including Venables and Thompson, and I imagine the crime fucked their lives up beyond belief too. Don't you think they have 'suffered', Longo?

 

Carrying on a witch-hunt against two blokes who were little kids when they did this appalling thing doesn't help anyone, least of all James Bulger's family.

 

Complete bollocks. You could used that excuse for most crimes. When does it stop? Many kids have bad lives and actually want to improve the community. If it was my kid the last thing I'd be thinking about is V & T's past life.

 

Also, I went jogging under the bridge the day he was lying cut to bits covered in paint and blinded just a few yards away from where I was. The bottom line is, this was not a spare of the moment crime, this was planned and executed.

[Stu Monty]

Anyone saying that they'd forgive them or move on only needs to ask themselves one question, 'Would I be able to forgive them if these two did that to my two year old son or daughter?'

 

I'm not a father yet but if someone did something like this to either of my kids there is no way on earth I'd forgive or forget and I'd make sure they got punished more than living in isolation for ten years and getting a better education than they would have done if they had stayed in their own school.

 

Imagine what it was like for Denise and Ralph Bulger to hear that their two year old boy had gone missing and died?, bad enough but they had to sit through gruesome details of their son being tortured without knowing what was going or why it was happening to him. After he died he got placed on a railway track and got cut into two by a train, they would have probably had to have identified what was left of him and then face the press who were just after a big story and not that bothered about their feelings. You always get the people pointing the finger at them saying that they should have been looking after him properly which would hurt you forever. Not many people would be able to come out of that without being completely fucked up. They eventually split up and he was angry for years, I saw a documentary where he has to go fishing every day and batters a punchbag constantly because he is still so angry about his son being taken from him.

 

I think if anyone suffered something like this they'd be more than entitled to be bitter and hate the cunts who did it forever. Even more so considering they seem to have got off lightly.

 

But that hasn't anything to do with justice though, has it Rob? I've said before that if anyone touched my missus I think I'd not stop till I'd had them badly fucked up, but you have to step outside of that emotive thirst for vengance when deciding on justice, and a law to live by. I can understand that lust for vengance, and think I'd probably feel it too, but can step outside that and look at it objectively enough to see that if I take the law into my own hands I too then need to be dealt with by the law.

[ReddOrDedd]

Complete bollocks. You could used that excuse for most crimes. When does it stop? Many kids have bad lives and actually want to improve the community. If it was my kid the last thing I'd be thinking about is V & T's past life.

 

Also, I went jogging under the bridge the day he was lying cut to bits covered in paint and blinded just a few yards away from where I was. The bottom line is, this was not a spare of the moment crime, this was planned and executed.

 

Eh?

 

You could use that excuse for most crimes, you say? What excuse is that? The 'excuse' that the perpetrators are young children themselves?

 

I'm not sure I follow you, son.

[Total Longo]

Eh?

 

You could use that excuse for most crimes, you say? What excuse is that? The 'excuse' that the perpetrators are young children themselves?

 

I'm not sure I follow you, son.

 

oh for fuck's sake, change the record.

[robbief]

Are you seriously still chasing after kids who beat up your brother 13 years ago when you were all young lads? Is he?

 

its a very sensitive issue for me as i see great links between the two events. venables and thompson saw james as an inocent victim with no defense, much in the way that the gang of twats saw my brother as he was younger and is and has always been of slight build. when i was told about what happened to james bulger it linked up straight away with what happened to our kid and made me feel sick. they saw him and knew he couldn't defend himself and brutally attacked him for no reason. the police where involved and they all got warnings which is not enough sentance for beating up someone in my family. i would like to think if it had happened to me then my brother would do the same.......

 

i would love to get these two twats and i am of no relation to the bulger family, hopefully you can understand why i still feel the need to get my own back on behalf of our kid. if not, fuck you, i don't need to answer to you. all i am doing / have done is what should have been done nearer the time and i couldn't care less that it is ten years late.

 

as for all these sites about the trials and what not, i'v just read both posted above and started to feel reason behind why they done it....... fair enough they had bad childhoods and shit but i'm affraid i would still kick lumps out of the cunts.

 

i am honestly terrified for my kids. when i have kids i don't want to be over protective but if anything hapened i couldn't live with the guilt. recently we've had the bulger programme and the one on channel 4 about the peados in schools. scary shit.....