Liverpool vs Derby County

[Red Nick]

I think there is a lot of validity in point that several have made about Rafa bringing in too much quantity and not enough top quality, but we should also consider the following point:

 

When a top football man comes into a club he assesses the playing staff from top to bottom. If he feels wholesale changes need to happen then he should make those changes. We are privileged in that we can back our manager to make the changes and we usually give him a good few years to see it through.

 

Budget constraints mean that the players coming in will be around the £5-6M mark (with a couple of Bosman's/cheap players balancing out a couple of £10M acquisitions). Only Chelsea can buy a whole new team, money no object. And Ferguson has been at Man Utd long enough so that he only tops his first team up with quality now, since he has the baseline needed from which to operate.

 

Once the manager is reasonably pleased with his squad (and has the quantity of players that he brought in) he can then move to a new phase of recruitment - with an emphasis on quality. I feel we are seeing Rafa beginning to move into this phase of recruitment, and another window or two (provided he is here and receives the requisite backing) should see him bring in further top quality.

 

 

I dont really want to open up that whole can of worms again because what happened in the close season is past and whilst agreeing with the sentiments of your post I think this season was the time to move on to two to three class players like Fernando, that would have probably meant no Benayou or Babel and selling Crouch & Momo but the manager made his decision.

 

I suppose the best way to look at it is how many players bought in the last two seasons can nail down a first 11 place, Arbeloa (probably) Javier & Torres. Those who are in and out of the team are either not of sufficient abillity or are talented young players who may become great players in the future.

[coop]

I think there is a lot of validity in point that several have made about Rafa bringing in too much quantity and not enough top quality, but we should also consider the following point:

 

When a top football man comes into a club he assesses the playing staff from top to bottom. If he feels wholesale changes need to happen then he should make those changes. We are privileged in that we can back our manager to make the changes and we usually give him a good few years to see it through.

 

Budget constraints mean that the players coming in will be around the £5-6M mark (with a couple of Bosman's/cheap players balancing out a couple of £10M acquisitions). Only Chelsea can buy a whole new team, money no object. And Ferguson has been at Man Utd long enough so that he only tops his first team up with quality now, since he has the baseline needed from which to operate.

 

Once the manager is reasonably pleased with his squad (and has the quantity of players that he brought in) he can then move to a new phase of recruitment - with an emphasis on quality. I feel we are seeing Rafa beginning to move into this phase of recruitment, and another window or two (provided he is here and receives the requisite backing) should see him bring in further top quality.

 

Could not have put it better myself and saves me typing it al out.

 

Rafa is at a stage now where is squad is large but we have out grown players such as Crouch and now need players of the calibre of Torres in his position.

 

Many posters on here will all agree we need another winger, another striker and another centre half.

 

Rashids shout of Diego is a good one as he is a superb player playing just behind the main striker.

 

Three players which would make a huge difference to our team for me are Heinze, Mancini and Diego then that would be it no need to sign anyone else has we have suitable cover all over the pitch.

[Red Nick]

Could not have put it better myself and saves me typing it al out.

 

Rafa is at a stage now where is squad is large but we have out grown players such as Crouch and now need players of the calibre of Torres in his position.

 

Many posters on here will all agree we need another winger, another striker and another centre half.

 

Rashids shout of Diego is a good one as he is a superb player playing just behind the main striker.

 

Three players which would make a huge difference to our team for me are Heinze, Mancini and Diego then that would be it no need to sign anyone else has we have suitable cover all over the pitch.

 

About 40m which we obviously dont have

[Kopite]

About 40m which we obviously dont have

 

Obviously... :whistle:

[Kopite]

If that would've been scored by anyone else, Lineker, Shearer etc would've masturbated live on the BBC.

 

Neither of them would have scored a goal like like. Lineker spent his entire career inside the 6 yard box whilst Shearer didn't have the skill to go past a man. Great player though.

[Section_31]

Could not have put it better myself and saves me typing it al out.

 

Rafa is at a stage now where is squad is large but we have out grown players such as Crouch and now need players of the calibre of Torres in his position.

 

Many posters on here will all agree we need another winger, another striker and another centre half.

 

Rashids shout of Diego is a good one as he is a superb player playing just behind the main striker.

 

Three players which would make a huge difference to our team for me are Heinze, Mancini and Diego then that would be it no need to sign anyone else has we have suitable cover all over the pitch.

 

Spot on G Richards and Coop.

 

I said the other day that if we had Rooney and Ronaldo we'd be one of the top-three sides in world football.

We've had a squad packed with players who can 'do a job', and most would agree with Rafa that the team is the star rather than any one player.

But I also think Torres has opened our eyes to just how much of a difference one man can make when he's got the quality.

He's a matchwinner, so is Gerrard and Beni to a lesser extent. We need another two (at least) of that calibre.

 

Macca and Folwer used to rip sides to shreds on their own, so did Owen, we haven't had that again since Torres arrived. A couple more and we'll be golden.

[hamstrung]

Why couldn't we buy a player like that in the first place instead of wasting so much money on Crouch, Kuyt, Morientes, Bellamy, and the rest? Let that be a lesson to Rafa.

 

Because he couldn't get £20M in one go before. Its not like he bought all those players at the same time.

[Red Nick]

Spot on G Richards and Coop.

 

I said the other day that if we had Rooney and Ronaldo we'd be one of the top-three sides in world football.

We've had a squad packed with players who can 'do a job', and most would agree with Rafa that the team is the star rather than any one player.

But I also think Torres has opened our eyes to just how much of a difference one man can make when he's got the quality.

He's a matchwinner, so is Gerrard and Beni to a lesser extent. We need another two (at least) of that calibre.

 

Macca and Folwer used to rip sides to shreds on their own, so did Owen, we haven't had that again since Torres arrived. A couple more and we'll be golden.

 

Put Macca & Fowler (in thier pomp) in our team and we would be a real football team challenging on all fronts.

 

Its not rocket Science but I dont see where the funds are going to come from when there is 25m approx on debt repayment PA.

 

Jan transfer window should clear up whereabouts the club is financially

[Mr T]

I think there is a lot of validity in point that several have made about Rafa bringing in too much quantity and not enough top quality, but we should also consider the following point:

 

When a top football man comes into a club he assesses the playing staff from top to bottom. If he feels wholesale changes need to happen then he should make those changes. We are privileged in that we can back our manager to make the changes and we usually give him a good few years to see it through.

 

Budget constraints mean that the players coming in will be around the £5-6M mark (with a couple of Bosman's/cheap players balancing out a couple of £10M acquisitions). Only Chelsea can buy a whole new team, money no object. And Ferguson has been at Man Utd long enough so that he only tops his first team up with quality now, since he has the baseline needed from which to operate.

 

Once the manager is reasonably pleased with his squad (and has the quantity of players that he brought in) he can then move to a new phase of recruitment - with an emphasis on quality. I feel we are seeing Rafa beginning to move into this phase of recruitment, and another window or two (provided he is here and receives the requisite backing) should see him bring in further top quality.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this view point.

[coop]

About 40m which we obviously dont have

 

Sissoko, Crouch, Riise and Carson will go some way towards funding them.

[Rashid]

I think there is a lot of validity in point that several have made about Rafa bringing in too much quantity and not enough top quality, but we should also consider the following point:

 

When a top football man comes into a club he assesses the playing staff from top to bottom. If he feels wholesale changes need to happen then he should make those changes. We are privileged in that we can back our manager to make the changes and we usually give him a good few years to see it through.

 

Budget constraints mean that the players coming in will be around the £5-6M mark (with a couple of Bosman's/cheap players balancing out a couple of £10M acquisitions). Only Chelsea can buy a whole new team, money no object. And Ferguson has been at Man Utd long enough so that he only tops his first team up with quality now, since he has the baseline needed from which to operate.

 

Once the manager is reasonably pleased with his squad (and has the quantity of players that he brought in) he can then move to a new phase of recruitment - with an emphasis on quality. I feel we are seeing Rafa beginning to move into this phase of recruitment, and another window or two (provided he is here and receives the requisite backing) should see him bring in further top quality.

 

Whilst I agree that Rafa needed to address a whole squad when he came in you have to see that Finna, Carragher, Hyypia, Riise, Gerrard and Kewell are still part of the first team and in around it.. thats half the team. Then we have huge improvements on Reina, Agger, Mascherano and Alonso.

 

Torres has replaced Owen and is a better overall player than Owen IMO and Gerrard is Gerrard.

 

Where I don't think the team has improved 'significantly' on what Houllier had is in Pennant, Kuyt, Crouch, Voronin, Sissoko, Benayoun - who I think are "good players" but won't win you big games on their own.

 

What Rafa needed to do was to keep the players who were good rather take a loss on them and replace them with players of equal ability and then concentrate on buying top class players and/or young players who have rich promise. He has been players like Kuyt and Crouch for a combined £17M when Torres cost £18M and you see what I mean.

 

Talking about Fergie though, he hasn't just bought £20M players in the past 2 years he has got Vidic £7M, Evra £7m, Tevez £6m loan fee, VDS £2m - thats 4 FIRST TEAM players for £22M - some of them top class in their posotions. He also sold Beckham, Smith, Nistellroy, Richardson and quite few others for over £50M combined. I think Fergie is pretty good in the transfer market.

 

I honestly think Rafa could have bought a world winger and a world class deep lying striker with the money he has spent elsewhere so it is down to him really, thats I why still expect a title challenge.

 

That said we know now where we need to improve so either in Jan or May he needs to get in a left back who can play CB (Heinze maybe?), a winger and a partner for Torres even if it means getting rid of 8 players.

[drewy]

Whilst I agree that Rafa needed to address a whole squad when he came in you have to see that Finna, Carragher, Hyypia, Riise, Gerrard and Kewell are still part of the first team and in around it.. thats half the team. Then we have huge improvements on Reina, Agger, Mascherano and Alonso.

 

Torres has replaced Owen and is a better overall player than Owen IMO and Gerrard is Gerrard.

 

Where I don't think the team has improved 'significantly' on what Houllier had is in Pennant, Kuyt, Crouch, Voronin, Sissoko, Benayoun - who I think are "good players" but won't win you big games on their own.

 

What Rafa needed to do was to keep the players who were good rather take a loss on them and replace them with players of equal ability and then concentrate on buying top class players and/or young players who have rich promise. He has been players like Kuyt and Crouch for a combined £17M when Torres cost £18M and you see what I mean.

 

Talking about Fergie though, he hasn't just bought £20M players in the past 2 years he has got Vidic £7M, Evra £7m, Tevez £6m loan fee, VDS £2m - thats 4 FIRST TEAM players for £22M - some of them top class in their posotions. He also sold Beckham, Smith, Nistellroy, Richardson and quite few others for over £50M combined. I think Fergie is pretty good in the transfer market.

 

I honestly think Rafa could have bought a world winger and a world class deep lying striker with the money he has spent elsewhere so it is down to him really, thats I why still expect a title challenge.

 

That said we know now where we need to improve so either in Jan or May he needs to get in a left back who can play CB (Heinze maybe?), a winger and a partner for Torres even if it means getting rid of 8 players.

 

Why do you constantly compare Rafa with Slur? How long ago did Slur pay £27M for Ferdinand? When was the last time we paid £27M for a player? Was Rafa even a manager in England then?

 

We had to borrow £10M just to buy one player. You have this knack of grabbing facets of information to back up your point regardless of whether they have any relevance to your initial point.

[drewy]

Anybody else hear that Rafa could be in the shit with the FA?

 

Apparantly him and Jewell had to be seperated on the touchline after the tackle on Voronin. Cameras missed it but the fourth official mentioned it to the ref.

[Thomo123]

Anybody else hear that Rafa could be in the shit with the FA?

 

Apparantly him and Jewell had to be seperated on the touchline after the tackle on Voronin. Cameras missed it but the fourth official mentioned it to the ref.

 

So is Jewell in the shit too?

[coop]

Rafa Benitez and Paul Jewell could find themselves in hot water with the Football Association after clashing at Pride Park during Liverpool's last-gasp 2-1 win over the Premiership's bottom side.

 

The rival managers confronted each other during a stormy second half when Derby goal scorer Jay McEveley launched himself at Andriy Voronin with a crude challenge which left the Liverpool striker lying in a crumbled heap.

 

Benitez took exception to the tackle and raced out of his dug-out while Jewell thought Voronin had made the most of the tackle to get McEveley booked.

 

Both managers made their feelings clear before squaring up to each other as match officials struggled to calm the situation down.

 

The feuding duo were eventually pulled apart as the game continued but both Benitez and Jewell face an anxious wait to discover if they will be charged with bringing the game into disrepute.

 

FA officials will now wait to discover what is included in the match report of referee Alan Wiley before deciding whether or not to take the matter further.

 

Benitez said: "The longer the game went on the more physical and aggressive Derby were. For me, it was a bad tackle.

 

"He (Jewell) said his player didn't touch him but it was a different point of view. At least I didn't receive a tackle from him (Jewell) when he approached me."

 

A more pressing concern for Benitez is the fitness of influential defender Sami Hyypia.

 

The Finnish centre back limped out of the action after just 53 minutes with a damaged ankle and will undergo intensive tests and treatment in a bid to be fit for Sunday's crucial trip to Manchester City.

 

Benitez said: "Sammi has a problem with his knee and will have to go and see the club doctor. We will have to wait and see what happens with him but he will be a doubt."

 

Jewell has mounting injury problems of his own as he battles against the odds to save Derby from relegation.

 

Goalkeeper Stephen Bywater withdrew an hour before kick off with a shoulder problem while midfielder Stepehen Pearson was forced to go to hospital after suffering a dislocated shoulder in a challenge with his own team-mate, Darren Moore.

 

Jewell said: "Everything seemed to conspire against us after what happened with Stephen Bywater before kick off and then with Stephen Pearson during the game.

 

"We were really stretched at the end and the injury problems are mounting up."

 

Jewell played down his touchline spat with Benitez but did admit he had ordered his players to get stuck into Liverpool after half time and show more fighting spirit.

 

He said: "You have to compete and make a few tackles when you play against a side like Liverpool, otherwise they will kill you if you show them too much respect.

 

"He (McEveley) never touched him. It might have been a foul, I don't know, but that happens in games."

 

McEveley's first goal of the season, in the 67th minute, looked to have salvaged an unlikely draw for Jewell's side after Fernando Torres had opened the scoring in the 12th minute.

 

But a frantic finish saw Steven Gerrard bundle home the decisive goal from close range after Lewis Price had spilled Torres's initial shot and McEveley had fired his clearance straight to the England international.

[Thomo123]

Why do you constantly compare Rafa with Slur? How long ago did Slur pay £27M for Ferdinand? When was the last time we paid £27M for a player? Was Rafa even a manager in England then?

 

We had to borrow £10M just to buy one player. You have this knack of grabbing facets of information to back up your point regardless of whether they have any relevance to your initial point.

 

Cmon rash, play the game mate thats a very selective number of transfers you mention.

 

How about carrick or veron?

[m0e]

Cmon rash, play the game mate thats a very selective number of transfers you mention.

 

How about carrick or veron?

 

Or Hargreaves? Or Forlan?

 

Rash, if you were a United fan during Fergies first few years in charge, you'd have wanted him out.

 

In fact I'd go as far as to say if you were an Arsenal fan during the last 4 years you'd have wanted Wenger out too.

 

What makes you a bigger expert in building a squad than Rafa Benitez?

 

And what makes you think he didn't try and buy players of Torres' calibre in the past few years? Some players do turn us down, you know?

 

Simao and Alves would have been much better alternatives to Pennant and Gonzalez but we didn't have the money.

 

And how on earth you mention Morientes, when its clear almost everyone (including you) was delighted with that signing.

 

I cannot believe we're discussing the past when the club's future is up in the air.

 

Let's focus on supporting the team. We're more than capable of doing City and Wigan, and if we do I have a feeling we'll be a lot closer to the top.

 

Btw - how come Arsenal couldn't beat Portsmouth, and we put 4 past them? Perhaps Wenger ha spent too much money on youngsters and squad palyers too! Oh the Black and White world of football.

[Paco]

only saw the highlights on football first but what i garnered was that Aurelio can't defend. missed a header for th goal and was wrong side of barnes when he stole in near the end.

 

Riise done alright for a makeshift centre half. went for a few headers with his eyes closed but wasn't as bad as his detractors make him out to be.

 

Reina is the best keeper in the league.

 

Reina, carragher, Gerrard, Torres must play all the time.

 

babel is better off the bench at the minute.

 

Kuyt and voronin are the same person and are equally useless when you're trying to find a goal.

 

Benayoun is a very important player for us as he is one of the few that creates.

 

Xabi needs a few more games.

 

Gerrard and Torres are Gods.

[Brownie]

only saw the highlights on football first but what i garnered was that Aurelio can't defend. missed a header for th goal and was wrong side of barnes when he stole in near the end.

 

Riise done alright for a makeshift centre half. went for a few headers with his eyes closed but wasn't as bad as his detractors make him out to be.

 

Reina is the best keeper in the league.

 

Reina, carragher, Gerrard, Torres must play all the time.

 

babel is better off the bench at the minute.

 

Kuyt and voronin are the same person and are equally useless when you're trying to find a goal.

 

Benayoun is a very important player for us as he is one of the few that creates.

 

Xabi needs a few more games.

 

Gerrard and Torres are Gods.

 

Riise was awful at CB Paco, you would only have been able to summise that from the highlights.

 

His hospital pass to Carra was terrible.

[ted tucker]

only saw the highlights on football first but what i garnered was that Aurelio can't defend. missed a header for th goal and was wrong side of barnes when he stole in near the end.

 

Riise done alright for a makeshift centre half. went for a few headers with his eyes closed but wasn't as bad as his detractors make him out to be.

 

Reina is the best keeper in the league.

 

Reina, carragher, Gerrard, Torres must play all the time.

 

babel is better off the bench at the minute.

 

Kuyt and voronin are the same person and are equally useless when you're trying to find a goal.

 

Benayoun is a very important player for us as he is one of the few that creates.

 

Xabi needs a few more games.

 

Gerrard and Torres are Gods.

 

Add to that, Hyypia has been an absolute rock since his shaky start back in the team and was badly missed when he went off, thought Riise caused panic went he went to CB.

[drewy]

Now that the quality within squad is rising with the addition of real quality, it's inevitable that certain players will be found out and subsequently be left behind.

 

Risse falls into that category IMO.

[philyhamann]

When is Pennant back?

[Paco]

Riise was awful at CB Paco, you would only have been able to summise that from the highlights.

 

His hospital pass to Carra was terrible.

 

that aside he done alright. wouldn't want him there every week like

[drewy]

 

Riise falls into the category of a more recent number-6-wearing centre back. One who had his nuts squashed.

 

I've got tears in my eyes just thinking about that. Rightly or wrongly I laughed at the time, age has mellowed me.

[ted tucker]

Now that the quality within squad is rising with the addition of real quality, it's inevitable that certain players will be found out and subsequently be left behind.

 

Risse falls into that category IMO.

 

Agreed, started off really well but seems to have gone backwards over the last couple of years. He is still living off that free-kick against united (A bit like Roberto Carlos with the one against France).

 

That is something else that pisses me off, we have much better free-kick takers in the team, Gerrard/Alonso, but he still persists in either putting it into row Z or the wall.

 

When all fit, Arbeloa is the best LB at the club and that is a sad statement considering he is right footed.