Liverpool V Portsmouth Match Thread

[cochcaer]

Owen is too much of a liability and Rafa's intense training regime would break him. Kuyt will be offloaded next summer.

[zico]

Yep but they stormed the league last year without a 'poacher' as did Chelsea the two years previous to that.

 

Read my first sentence: "Perhaps it has something to do with having world class wingers"

 

Besides Chelsea have bought a poacher, Shevchenko, he just hasn´t found his feet in the PL yet... Fungusface have tried to replace RVN, and has always utilized Solskjaer when injury free, so I think they both would like a poacher in their teams......

[Moschops II]

Surely you can summarise this entire thread as:

 

a) Should we, as a general principal, score my goals?

 

Everyone says yes.

 

b) Is the solution to this an "old school" winger and a "fox in the box"?

 

Some people say yes, some people no.

 

But how many pages is it going to sprawl on for?

[zico]

And we weren't good enough with Michael Owen at his best.

 

Had we had him at his best at the club now with the current squad we would have been favourites for the title....:yes:

 

Why the objections for us to buy a world class poacher, I mean we can´t field 6 central midfielders and 4 "likes to drop deep" strikers now can we...

[Red Nick]

I thought preseason we had nailed the argument about Torres playing second striker he is an out and out striker just like Michael Owen but much better than him.

 

Torres needs a player like Tevez or Bergkamp to play with him. Owen and Torres would not be a good combination to similar running into the same space.

 

Thats why I see Voronin being his ideal partner of the 3, ie has skill and would run the channels for Torres, couldnt see Owen doing that.

 

Its all rather meaningless anyway as Owen wont be comming anywhere near this club

 

Just wanted to point out again that Torres is an out and out striker a rich mans kuyt if you like

[Red Nick]

Read my first sentence: "Perhaps it has something to do with having world class wingers"

 

Besides Chelsea have bought a poacher, Shevchenko, he just hasn´t found his feet in the PL yet... Fungusface have tried to replace RVN, and has always utilized Solskjaer when injury free, so I think they both would like a poacher in their teams......

 

If chelsea hadnt signed schevchenko and Ballack last summer they would still be champions IMO

 

its about the team not about a 30 goal a season man, in Torres we have a goal scorer and team player, Drogba scores goals and is a team player.

[Cardie]

Just wanted to point out again that Torres is an out and out striker a rich mans kuyt if you like

 

Rafa se's it differently and his role seems to depend on who he's partnering upfront.

[zico]

I thought preseason we had nailed the argument about Torres playing second striker he is an out and out striker just like Michael Owen but much better than him.

 

Torres needs a player like Tevez or Bergkamp to play with him. Owen and Torres would not be a good combination to similar running into the same space.

 

Thats why I see Voronin being his ideal partner of the 3, ie has skill and would run the channels for Torres, couldnt see Owen doing that.

 

Its all rather meaningless anyway as Owen wont be comming anywhere near this club

 

Just wanted to point out again that Torres is an out and out striker a rich mans kuyt if you like

 

Owen is past it, I agree it´s time to move on!!!

 

I see your argument about Torres being an out and out striker, but I just can´t help to vision him besides David Villa or Diego Milito, that would have been a nightmare for any defender and a match made in heaven for us...

 

One is strong, quick with loads of skill that would tear defences to shreds, whilst the other lurkes around the in the box, finds his openings and puts the ball in the net for fun:yes:

 

I would take that over our current option of 3 "drop deep" strikers....

[Rashid]

I thought preseason we had nailed the argument about Torres playing second striker he is an out and out striker just like Michael Owen but much better than him.

 

Torres needs a player like Tevez or Bergkamp to play with him. Owen and Torres would not be a good combination to similar running into the same space.

 

Thats why I see Voronin being his ideal partner of the 3, ie has skill and would run the channels for Torres, couldnt see Owen doing that.

 

Its all rather meaningless anyway as Owen wont be comming anywhere near this club

 

Just wanted to point out again that Torres is an out and out striker a rich mans kuyt if you like

 

How do you know Voronin is good enough to be a first team regular here? I think Crouch has a better shout than him.

 

I'd love to see Owen here and failing that what's wrong with a different type of striker like an Aimar? I still think a Garcia/Torres partnership would have been a dream.

[Red Nick]

Owen is past it, I agree it´s time to move on!!!

 

I see your argument about Torres being an out and out striker, but I just can´t help to vision him besides David Villa or Diego Milito, that would have been a nightmare for any defender and a match made in heaven for us...

 

One is strong, quick with loads of skill that would tear defences to shreds, whilst the other lurkes around the in the box, finds his openings and puts the ball in the net for fun:yes:

 

I would take that over our current option of 3 "drop deep" strikers....

 

 

But its like Henry & Bergkamp, if you go for a two stirker scenario you have to change the whole way you play, thats why Arsenal were never at there best when they played 2 out and out strikers

[zico]

If chelsea hadnt signed schevchenko and Ballack last summer they would still be champions IMO

 

its about the team not about a 30 goal a season man, in Torres we have a goal scorer and team player, Drogba scores goals and is a team player.

 

Might be true, but it was more down to Mourinho´s tinkering with the system, playing 4-5-1 (4-4-2 sometimes) instead of 4-3-3 last season, in order to accomodate Ballack and Lampard in the center together with a defensive midfielder...

 

This season he will revert back to 4-3-3, using Essien to run his engine room in the middle, that´s why I think they will win the league this year

[Red Nick]

How do you know Voronin is good enough to be a first team regular here? I think Crouch has a better shout than him.

 

I'd love to see Owen here and failing that what's wrong with a different type of striker like an Aimar? I still think a Garcia/Torres partnership would have been a dream.

 

Agreed Aimar(at his best) and Torres would have been brilliant just as Tevez would be now.

 

As for Voronin from what little ive seen I think he would be a better foil for Torres.

 

One thing is for sure is that Rafa is going to have to start to make some decisions and start playing the team he wants to play against Villa pretty soon

[zico]

But its like Henry & Bergkamp, if you go for a two stirker scenario you have to change the whole way you play, thats why Arsenal were never at there best when they played 2 out and out strikers

 

Under Rafa I think Torres will play the "hold the ball up" role with a licence to roam, that´s why I think the system could accomodate a poacher...

 

Torres will do what was done by Kuyt and Crouch last year.....

[Moschops II]

Might be true, but it was more down to Mourinho´s tinkering with the system, playing 4-5-1 (4-4-2 sometimes) instead of 4-3-3 last season, in order to accomodate Ballack and Lampard in the center together with a defensive midfielder...

 

This season he will revert back to 4-3-3, using Essien to run his engine room in the middle, that´s why I think they will win the league this year

 

Engine room, world class poacher, puts the ball in the net for fun.

 

Did you learn English as a second language from Andy Gray?

[Red Nick]

Might be true, but it was more down to Mourinho´s tinkering with the system, playing 4-5-1 (4-4-2 sometimes) instead of 4-3-3 last season, in order to accomodate Ballack and Lampard in the center together with a defensive midfielder...

 

This season he will revert back to 4-3-3, using Essien to run his engine room in the middle, that´s why I think they will win the league this year

 

but the reason he tinkered with the system was to try and fit Sheva into his team, if they hadnt had bought him I doubt he would have changed the system that much

[Red Nick]

Under Rafa I think Torres will play the "hold the ball up" role with a licence to roam, that´s why I think the system could accomodate a poacher...

 

Torres will do what was done by Kuyt and Crouch last year.....

 

Dont agree and thats not what ive been watching pre-season.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one

[zico]

Agreed Aimar(at his best) and Torres would have been brilliant just as Tevez would be now.

 

As for Voronin from what little ive seen I think he would be a better foil for Torres.

 

One thing is for sure is that Rafa is going to have to start to make some decisions and start playing the team he wants to play against Villa pretty soon

 

If he chooses to utilize Torres as an out and out striker as you suggest I agree that it would be great to partner him with an "Aimar type" player...

 

Personally I like the 2 strikers with a playmaker in the hole approach, but I do not think that will happen under Rafa:

 

Dream scenario - Diego Ribas playing in the hole behind Torres and Villa/Milito:thumbup:

[zico]

Dont agree and thats not what ive been watching pre-season.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one

 

Agreed:biggrin:

[Rashid]

Chelsea lost the league due to injuries to Cech, Terry and Joe Cole for several months and nothing to do with Ballack and Shevchenko.

[Rashid]

If he chooses to utilize Torres as an out and out striker as you suggest I agree that it would be great to partner him with an "Aimar type" player...

 

Personally I like the 2 strikers with a playmaker in the hole approach, but I do not think that will happen under Rafa:

 

Dream scenario - Diego Ribas playing in the hole behind Torres and Villa/Milito:thumbup:

 

I like the one striker with a roaming play maker ie Torres up front with Aimar in behind and two wingers to stretch the play all ahead of solid midfielders e.g. Mascherano and Gerrard.

[zico]

Engine room, world class poacher, puts the ball in the net for fun.

 

Did you learn English as a second language from Andy Gray?

 

Yes he is my uncle, we have loads of fun at family gatherings....

[zico]

but the reason he tinkered with the system was to try and fit Sheva into his team, if they hadnt had bought him I doubt he would have changed the system that much

 

Might be true, but it was more down to Mourinho´s tinkering with the system, playing 4-5-1 (4-4-2 sometimes) instead of 4-3-3 last season, in order to accomodate Ballack and Lampard in the center together with a defensive midfielder...

This season he will revert back to 4-3-3, using Essien to run his engine room in the middle, that´s why I think they will win the league this year

__________________

[Red Nick]

I like the one striker with a roaming play maker ie Torres up front with Aimar in behind and two wingers to stretch the play all ahead of solid midfielders e.g. Mascherano and Gerrard.

 

This one formation quite well

 

Houghton-----Whelan-----McMahon----Barnes

-------------------Dalglish--------------------

--------------------Aldridge------------------

[zico]

I like the one striker with a roaming play maker ie Torres up front with Aimar in behind and two wingers to stretch the play all ahead of solid midfielders e.g. Mascherano and Gerrard.

 

I also like this approach, however I do not think we currently have the wingers for this approach to win us the league...

 

In a dream scenario, we would have a world class poacher, a world class playmaker and 2 world class wingers at the club, and if we´re greedy we could add a world class wing back for the right hand side, now that "would give us options for sure" to quote Rafa..... How to keep them all happy I do not know....

[cotter]

They had a winger and a striker who scored nearly 50 goals between them! Our front 4 couldn't manage that. The point many of us are making is that one of our strikers needs to score as many as Drogba and Rooney did and we need wingers or widemen as good as Ronaldo, Robben, Cole, Giggs etc. Why is it people can point to them "not having a poacher" but overlook the goals their strikers score and quality they have out wide?

 

The defences of the top 3 are all strong - Man United had the best defence last year I think.

 

The league will be won or lost by the front FOUR of each club this season. So it will be up to Torres, Crouch, Kewell and Pennant to out perform the likes of Ronaldo, Giggs, Rooney and Tevez.

 

drogba and rooney started almost every game for their clubs. i doubt crouch was anywhere near doing that. think his goals per minutes on the pitch compares favourably with most of the top strikers.

 

think gerrard and kewell (if fit) are as good as any of the wingers/widemen you mention. babel might be, but like ronaldo it could take him two or three seasons to really dominate in the premiership.

 

man united won the league in one way, chelsea in another, and arsenal before them in another. there is no blueprint, no right and wrong way to do it. if we win it anytime soon it won't be by just copying whoever did it last, although benitez has shown he is willing to adapt his thinking he will also have some strongly held convictions. the manager has been pretty successful in his own right, and while we're some way behind in the league we're beginning to build on solid foundations.

 

we do need to score more goals, don't see how that automatically adds up to we should buy this player or that player though. we've already added three or four quality attacking options, we may also see subtle changes in approach, there is also the issue of confidence and momentum (particularly away from home).

 

chelsea only scored 7 more goals than us last season by the way, and we outscored them at home. arsenal scored more than us.