Can We Just Stop and Think About This for a Moment?

[Jurgen Knows]

1 minute ago, M_B said:

 

You have a point. There was certainly talk about LGBT rights when Russia was hosting the Cup, but you are right in that it wasn't as high profile across the media.

 

Because there was no cultural bigotry involved.

 

1 minute ago, M_B said:

 

Does that mean they should not speak out about LGBT rights now? If not, when should they? Are you saying that because it is sport, nothing should ever be mentioned about the hosting country?

 

It remains to be seen what happens with the US. I'm sure some reporters will mention human rights in America, but lets face it, the US isn't locking up its LGBT community for their sexual preference.

I’m all for speaking about human rights. I for one don’t think that anyone should be jailed for being gay. I also think gay people should be helped rather than persecuted for being gay, as this is something beyond their control. 

 

I wouldn’t carry a flag in their support though, I wouldn’t ask a footballer to wear a rainbow armband, and I wouldn’t encourage same sex marriage. That goes against the concept of family.

 

The world cup has nothing to do with all of this though. Unless you have other motives that are not related to human rights.
 

[Jurgen Knows]

16 minutes ago, M_B said:

 

Which is exactly why the World Cup is as an opportunity to highlight Human Rights abuses. It focuses the worlds attention on the country.

We’re running in circles here.

 

Russia 2018? USA 2026?

[Jurgen Knows]

24 minutes ago, M_B said:

 

 

It remains to be seen what happens with the US. I'm sure some reporters will mention human rights in America, but lets face it, the US isn't locking up its LGBT community for their sexual preference.

But there are other human rights no? Does it only matter when it’s about LGBTQ? Do you think the Palestinian community’s human rights are less important than the LGBTQ community? Should we ask the Palestinians to become gay so that people would start to talk about their rights as humans?

[M_B]

5 minutes ago, Jurgen Knows said:

But there are other human rights no?

 

Ofcourse. The World Cup has highlighted one of those rights, so that is what is in the spotlight right now. If the World Cup is ever in Israel then it would be interesting to see how much of a spotlight is cast on Palestinian rights.

 

What's obvious in this thread is that you cannot accept the criticism of your country, even though you know (or claim to know) the criticism holds some truth. Why is that? When would you accept criticism of your country?

[Jurgen Knows]

5 minutes ago, M_B said:

 

Ofcourse. The World Cup has highlighted one of those rights, so that is what is in the spotlight right now. If the World Cup is ever in Israel then it would be interesting to see how much of a spotlight is cast on Palestinian rights.

 

The next World Cup is in the USA. A country that donates more than 3 billion USD to Israel every year from its taxpayers money. In addition to many other human rights issues that you can google. I assure you USA 2026 will not be about human rights. And it shouldn’t be. Same for Qatar 2022, and same for any World Cup in my view.

 

 

5 minutes ago, M_B said:

 

What's obvious in this thread is that you cannot accept the criticism of your country, even though you know (or claim to know) the criticism holds some truth. Why is that? When would you accept criticism of your country?

 

I accept criticism and I’m one of the critics. I don’t accept double standards and cultural bigotry. There is a big difference.

 

[Bjornebye]

17 hours ago, Jurgen Knows said:

Maybe she received a brown envelope as well …

What an extremely weird thing to post. 

[Jurgen Knows]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

What an extremely weird thing to post. 

More on it here:

 

https://www.itv.com/news/2022-12-02/why-female-football-fans-feel-safer-in-qatar-than-at-matches-at-home

 

[M_B]

3 minutes ago, Jurgen Knows said:

 

The next World Cup is in the USA. A country that donates more than 3 billion USD to Israel every year from its taxpayers money. In addition to many other human rights issues that you can google. I assure you USA 2026 will not be about human rights. And it shouldn’t be. Same for Qatar 2022, and same for any World Cup in my view.

 

Yes that's your view. Other people have other views. I like that the World Cup has got everyone talking about LGBT rights.

 

3 minutes ago, Jurgen Knows said:

I accept criticism and I’m one of the critics.

 

 

Great.

 

I think most people here agree with you about the comparative silence of other World Cups to Human Rights. I for one would like to see Human Rights issues highlighted whenever possible. You are preaching to the converted on this point but don't seem to realise it.

 

[Jurgen Knows]

12 minutes ago, M_B said:

 

Yes that's your view. Other people have other views. I like that the World Cup has got everyone talking about LGBT rights.

 

 

Great.

 

I think most people here agree with you about the comparative silence of other World Cups to Human Rights. I for one would like to see Human Rights issues highlighted whenever possible. You are preaching to the converted on this point but don't seem to realise it.

 

Fair enough. I have a different view. I don’t think for example that the captains of Arabic teams should wear Palestinian armbands in USA 2026.

 

And I believe many of the people who are speaking about human rights couldn’t care less about human rights and are just interested in bashing Qatar and the Arabic/Islamic culture. Double standards and cultural bigotry.

 

I’m not asking you to agree with this view.

[M_B]

Just now, Jurgen Knows said:

Fair enough. I have a different view. I don’t think for example that the captains of Arabic teams should wear Palestinian armbands in USA 2026.

 

Why not? I'd love it if they did. I doubt FIFA would allow it though, in the same way they wouldn't allow the LGBT armbands.

 

Just now, Jurgen Knows said:

I believe many of the people who are speaking about human rights couldn’t care less about human rights and are just interested in bashing Qatar and the Islamic culture.

 

I'm sure there is some truth in that statement. It doesn't stop the criticism being valid however.

 

[Captain Turdseye]

Why do Sheikhs Mohammed’s daughters keep trying to flee Dubai, and why does he then abduct and jail them?

[Bjornebye]

38 minutes ago, Jurgen Knows said:

More on it here:

 

https://www.itv.com/news/2022-12-02/why-female-football-fans-feel-safer-in-qatar-than-at-matches-at-home

 

Have you been vaccinated? 

[Jurgen Knows]

32 minutes ago, M_B said:

 

Why not? I'd love it if they did. I doubt FIFA would allow it though, in the same way they wouldn't allow the LGBT armbands.

 

Many reasons:

 

1. Political messages could create tensions with players of other teams. I prefer players to exchange shirts than political messages.

 

2. The player himself may not agree with the political message he is being asked to carry.

 

3. The football gets overshadowed by political debate.

 

There are enough fora to exchange political messages. The World Cup is not one of them. If someone feels so strongly about a certain issue they can choose to boycott. Once you’re there you should play football.

 

32 minutes ago, M_B said:

 

 

I'm sure there is some truth in that statement. It doesn't stop the criticism being valid however.

 

 

Criticism has never been the issue. The double standards and cultural bigotry have. Had it been normal criticism, like the one given to Russia 2018 I wouldn’t have bothered. In fact I would have joined in. I have already said that I would have had no issue with the World Cup being taken from Qatar as a result of an investigation about the selection process. I have criticized many things myself but people don’t want to read. Some were even struggling to accept that I’m actually an Arab.
 

It is clear to me what is beyond the viciousness and bile. That is not criticism mate.

[Fugitive]

“double standards and cultural bigotry”

 

[M_B]

52 minutes ago, Jurgen Knows said:

 

Many reasons:

 

1. Political messages could create tensions with players of other teams. I prefer players to exchange shirts than political messages.

 

2. The player himself may not agree with the political message he is being asked to carry.

 

3. The football gets overshadowed by political debate.

 

There are enough fora to exchange political messages. The World Cup is not one of them. If someone feels so strongly about a certain issue they can choose to boycott. Once you’re there you should play football.

 

 

Criticism has never been the issue. The double standards and cultural bigotry have. Had it been normal criticism, like the one given to Russia 2018 I wouldn’t have bothered. In fact I would have joined in. I have already said that I would have had no issue with the World Cup being taken from Qatar as a result of an investigation about the selection process. I have criticized many things myself but people don’t want to read. Some were even struggling to accept that I’m actually an Arab.
 

It is clear to me what is beyond the viciousness and bile. That is not criticism mate.

 

Fair enough - glad we had the debate. Hope you enjoy the remainder of the tournament.

[Jurgen Knows]

Just now, M_B said:

 

Fair enough - glad we had the debate. Hope you enjoy the remainder of the tournament.

Same here. Respect.

[Captain Turdseye]

Forget about the World Cup. You’re not even from Qatar. 
 

Why do Sheikhs Mohammed’s daughters keep trying to flee Dubai, and why does he then abduct and jail them?

[Bjornebye]

 

 

[Jurgen Knows]

8 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

Forget about the World Cup. You’re not even from Qatar. 
 

Why do Sheikhs Mohammed’s daughters keep trying to flee Dubai, and why does he then abduct and jail them?

Ask the British royal family. They’re friends with him. I’m not privy to his private family matters and don’t even know if this story is true. Your monarchs should know better.

 

You can keep googling every controversy in the Middle East and throw it at me to see my reaction. It doesn’t impact the points I put on the table:

 

1. Human rights issues exist everywhere. Your country is not more moral than the rest of the world.

 

2. You employ double standards to suit your agenda.

 

3. Cultural bigotry drives your agenda.

 

 

[Captain Turdseye]

1 minute ago, Jurgen Knows said:

Ask the British royal family. They’re friends with him. I’m not privy to his private family matters and don’t even know if this story is true. Your monarchs should know better.

 

You can keep googling every controversy in the Middle East and throw it at me to see my reaction. It doesn’t impact the points I put on the table:

 

1. Human rights issues exist everywhere. Your country is not more moral than the rest of the world.

 

2. You employ double standards to suit your agenda.

 

3. Cultural bigotry drives your agenda.

 

 

The Sheikh resides in my area and influences my local politics with his donations to the Conservative Party. I’m a member of the Labour Party so his business directly affects me. I’m not googling every controversy in the Middle East. You said you’re from Dubai. If I know the story of the Sheikh abducting his daughters, then so do you. 
 

Why do they keep trying to flee and why does he then abduct and jail them?

[TheHowieLama]

On 24/11/2022 at 12:01, Jurgen Knows said:

Can admins close this thread please? I really think there is no point in keeping it open. 

 

On 29/11/2022 at 07:29, Jurgen Knows said:

Have a great World Cup and enjoy the rest of the season everyone. 
 

Time for me to go back to whatever hole I crawled out of. 

 

 

 

 

[Jurgen Knows]

Just now, Captain Turdseye said:

The Sheikh resides in my area and influences my local politics with his donations to the Conservative Party. I’m a member of the Labour Party so his business directly affects me. I’m not googling every controversy in the Middle East. You said you’re from Dubai. If I know the story of the Sheikh abducting his daughters, then so do you. 
 

Why do they keep trying to flee and why does he then abduct and jail them?

You seem to know better than me about this. If you have a problem with it then I cannot help you. Ask the Conservative party maybe they can.

 

If you have anything to say about the points I raised I would be happy to discuss. 

[Jurgen Knows]

10 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

 

 

I do think there is no point in continuing with this thread. I actually disconnected for more than 3 days but you guys made sure the thread remained on the first page LOL

 

It is normal that I have most of the posts on here. I’m the one answering all the questions LOL

[Captain Turdseye]

Scared of writing something that could be construed as criticism of the great Sheikh Mohammed. 

[Dr Nowt]

3 hours ago, Jurgen Knows said:

I also think gay people should be helped rather than persecuted for being gay, as this is something beyond their control. 

Please clarify exactly what you mean by helped.