Our midfield

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

13 hours ago, an tha said:

Hendo will always look ok 'when he comes on' and when playing a max of 1 game a week - he isn't a bad footballer and has not become one overnight.

 

But ask him to play 2 or 3 games in a week at the highest level now and he simply can't cope and ends up looking awful.

 

He surely now has to transition into sort of role Milner has held - coming on to help see out games, playing early cup rounds, as a rotation option or for that 1 game in middle of two bigger/harder ones.

 

The problem is of course the paucity of other options to make this happen in the clusterfuck we call midfield - Summer did not see it being addressed, this window isn't seeing it being addressed - the coming summer simply has to.

Normally agree with almost everything you post, but definately not this. Milner does the ugly work when he comes on. Puts in a hard tackle, makes a professional foul to prevent a counter attack, shields the ball and falls over to win a free kick. All the things you never see Henderson do. Absolutely dont see how Henderson helps us see games out, apart from keeping the ball by playing safe passes which he’s pretty decent at, even if he puts his team mates in trouble too often.
 

In addition to that Milner is far more creative, but that wasn’t the point here I guess.

[stringvest]

7 minutes ago, Red Shift said:

In fairness to Keita and Bajcetic - they’ll get fitter the more competitive games they play.

Bajcetic was replaced with Fabinho at Brighton and what a mess that turned out to be. A tired Bajcetic would have been more stable than the jogging car crash that is Fab.

 

Anyway, their fitness will improve.

 

The other point to make is that Thiago has been carrying that midfield on his own before Bajcetic and Keita (I can't believe I'm saying this) were given their opportunity.  Thiago was playing 90 mins every game while the rest of them were getting subbed off.  So being able to give him a break now and again isn't a bad thing. 

[stringvest]

2 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

Normally agree with almost everything you post, but definately not this. Milner does the ugly work when he comes on. Puts in a hard tackle, makes a professional foul to prevent a counter attack, shields the ball and falls over to win a free kick. All the things you never see Henderson do. Absolutely dont see how Henderson helps us see games out, apart from keeping the ball by playing safe passes which he’s pretty decent at, even if he puts his team mates in trouble too often.
 

In addition to that Milner is far more creative, but that wasn’t the point here I guess.

 

Henderson is never a good option.  Doesn't challenge, panics under pressure, and offers nothing.  I'm amazed people think the other players follow his lead.  He doesn't lead anything.  Milner is the example players should be following.  Brave, committed, and determined.  

[gkmacca]

The stats are so stark in terms of comparing the performances last season to this one. I guess it's already been done, but you'd imagine a good challenge would be to just present the players with the objective evidence of how much less they're contributing and then ask them: 'Explain that'. Because there's no escaping it - in most aspects they're simply not living up to lasy year's standards.

[TheHowieLama]

15 minutes ago, gkmacca said:

 imagine a good challenge would be to just present the players with the objective evidence of how much less they're contributing and then ask them: 'Explain that'.

 

Who makes that?

[an tha]

1 hour ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

Normally agree with almost everything you post, but definately not this. Milner does the ugly work when he comes on. Puts in a hard tackle, makes a professional foul to prevent a counter attack, shields the ball and falls over to win a free kick. All the things you never see Henderson do. Absolutely dont see how Henderson helps us see games out, apart from keeping the ball by playing safe passes which he’s pretty decent at, even if he puts his team mates in trouble too often.
 

In addition to that Milner is far more creative, but that wasn’t the point here I guess.

Fair do's - I wasn't comparing them mind, just saying that Hendo needs to move into the back up/cover/play every so often role Milner has been in last couple of years or so.

 

The seeing out games part is/was more about using his nous and experience and to be honest i could easily swap that to "coming on in games when they are won to give others a rest" - what with 5 subs and all that...

[Jairzinho]

59 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Who makes that?

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

An 18 year old who was played on a whim has become our first choice midfielder!  

 

It's negligent. 

[Red Shift]

1 hour ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

An 18 year old who was played on a whim has become our first choice midfielder!  

 

It's negligent. 

Remember when Sterling broke through because we didn’t buy a replacement striker? Love him or hate him, a star was born and we challenged for the title shortly after. A nice fat fee of 50 million ensued.

[Carvalho Diablo]

9 hours ago, an tha said:

Fair do's - I wasn't comparing them mind, just saying that Hendo needs to move into the back up/cover/play every so often role Milner has been in last couple of years or so.

 

The seeing out games part is/was more about using his nous and experience and to be honest i could easily swap that to "coming on in games when they are won to give others a rest" - what with 5 subs and all that...

Iro your bottom paragraph, I'd rather that position was taken by a youngster to get some first team minutes and experience.

[Bobby Hundreds]

1 hour ago, Red Shift said:

Remember when Sterling broke through because we didn’t buy a replacement striker? Love him or hate him, a star was born and we challenged for the title shortly after. A nice fat fee of 50 million ensued.

Yeah we were a shit team largely apart from that standout season.

[stringvest]

4 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

An 18 year old who was played on a whim has become our first choice midfielder!  

 

It's negligent. 

It’s also not true, really.  Thiago is the first choice midfielder.  He’s mentoring Baj on the pitch.  But I do agree, the young lad will be a fantastic player in the future.  

[BeefStroganoff]

Milner should have been coaching staff two seasons back and Henderson should be filling his minutes and mentoring younger aspects of the squad. We should have then invested in two younger replacements.

 

I still cant believe that in 2023, we are starting Milner, as much as I love the bloke, in major games. Also OX, Kieta, Jones should have been bombed out ages ago they never offered anything.

 

But we all know this.

[VladimirIlyich]

21 hours ago, stringvest said:

 

Of course he has, and that's only one aspect of the differences between them.

Yet Thiago's results are exactly the same as Henderson's,a floundering team. 

[stringvest]

11 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Yet Thiago's results are exactly the same as Henderson's,a floundering team. 

 

don't be silly.  Since Henderson and Fabinho have been bombed out of the team, things have improved.  We need to continue to improve in other areas.

[Daisy]

13 hours ago, stringvest said:

 

that's not really answering the question though.  Give me an example of who you would like to see as owners, who could get us spending in the way you'd like to see.

I thought I had? Any of the owners - from any other Premier league club

[Bobby Hundreds]

1 hour ago, stringvest said:

It’s also not true, really.  Thiago is the first choice midfielder.  He’s mentoring Baj on the pitch.  But I do agree, the young lad will be a fantastic player in the future.  

We don't play just one in midfield, Thiago is first choice alongside Bajcetic.

[stringvest]

Just now, Bobby Hundreds said:

We don't play just one in midfield, Thiago is first choice alongside Bajcetic.

 

I agree.  As is Keita.  Who'd have thought anyone would say that?

[stringvest]

40 minutes ago, Daisy said:

I thought I had? Any of the owners - from any other Premier league club

ok.  I don't agree with you that they're all better than what we have though.  Here's what I think:  Yes=better

 

Arsenal  Yes

Man City  No

Newcastle. No

ManUtd. No

Tottenham. No

Brighton. No

Fulham. No

Brentford. No

Liverpool

Chelsea. No

Aston Villa. Maybe

Crystal Palace. No

Nottm Forest. No

Leicester. Yes

Leeds. Maybe

West Ham. No

Wolves. Yes

Bournemouth. No

Everton. No

Southampton. Maybe

[El Rojo]

A lot of the criticism on this thread is warranted.

 

I also think a few established and even 'world class' defenders and attackers are hiding some of their own unacceptably bad performances behind those in the middle of the pitch. I'm yet to be convinced that we'll be wonderful everywhere once we bring a few midfielders in this summer. 
 

I struggle to think of anyone outside the magnificent Alisson who can hold his head up high this season. 

[aws]

2 hours ago, El Rojo said:

A lot of the criticism on this thread is warranted.

 

I also think a few established and even 'world class' defenders and attackers are hiding some of their own unacceptably bad performances behind those in the middle of the pitch. I'm yet to be convinced that we'll be wonderful everywhere once we bring a few midfielders in this summer. 
 

I struggle to think of anyone outside the magnificent Alisson who can hold his head up high this season. 

Just Milner, Firmino and the youngsters - which makes the performances of our other senior players even more shameful.  

[El Rojo]

51 minutes ago, aws said:

Just Milner, Firmino and the youngsters - which makes the performances of our other senior players even more shameful.  

 

Yeah, those two have stepped up and I wouldn't judge the young lads either way. Firmino's scored as many league goals as Salah in far fewer games. 

[stringvest]

2 hours ago, aws said:

Just Milner, Firmino and the youngsters - which makes the performances of our other senior players even more shameful.  

 

I think Thiago has been pretty good playing midfield on his own for most of the season.  He's had the odd poor game, but more good than bad.

[Planet Origi]

Been just as shit as the rest. I find his play comical. There's an incident in the last game on exactly the 75 minutes mark that completely sums him up for me.

[stringvest]

4 minutes ago, Planet Origi said:

Been just as shit as the rest. I find his play comical. There's an incident in the last game on exactly the 75 minutes mark that completely sums him up for me.

 

no it won't.  It'll 'prove' a point you're trying to make.  Did he give the ball away?  Fucking hell.